Are we obligated to try to stop a suicide?

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Stjudeprayforus

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In Alameda, California a man waded into the ocean in 4 ft of water to commit suicide he stood in the ocean for an hour.
The police, fireman and coast guard just stood on the shore and just watched him die.
(he died of hypothermia) Finally a woman who is only 20 went out and dragged his dead body to shore.
The man even looked back several times at the people just watching him. Isnt that awful… he just needed to know someone cared.

The authorities cited budget cuts and lack of training. (not sure what kind of training is needed to walk out to him)

insidebayarea.com/news/ci_18217061?source=pkg

On the radio this was being discussed and Christians were saying… we are obligated to save him. Others were saying… he could have taken them with him to a watery grave they are under no obligation.

I know I would have gone in to try and talk to him. I don’t think I would be strong enough to drag a grown man into shore… but I know I would have tried to reason with him.

Are we as Catholics required to risk our own lives to save a suicidal person?
The people that just watched… what have they done? What sin do you think they committed? If any.
 
I’d like to mention something that happened to me a few years ago, it doesn’t directly relate to this situation but I hope you’ll see what I’m getting at.

A few years ago, when I went into a city near me one Saturday morning, I passed a man lying on the ground. He was lying flat on his back, perfectly still, eyes open, with a bottle of alcoholic drink near his hand. He didn’t seem to have fallen as he was lying too straight to have collapsed, and there was no sign of injury. He didn’t appear to be unconscious but was perfectly motionless. I passed by but felt bad about it, as I wasn’t sure whether or not he was OK. Later that morning I went to confession and told the priest what had happened. The priest said I was prudent not to do anything - he may have been ill, but he could also have been on drugs, drunk or psychotic, and may have attacked me if I’d approached him. He said that if I’d been part of a group of people then perhaps I could have done something but as I was on my own, my conscience was clear.

The point I’m getting at is, although it depends on the situation (and I know the situation you describe is different to mine), nobody knows how this man would have reacted if someone had tried to save him. If he’d been determined to commit suicide and resisted being rescued, that may have had serious consequences for the rescuer. I suspect the comments the priest made about my situation may have some relevance to the situation you describe. It depends on the circumstances and there’s no easy, clear-cut answer. 😦
 
a couple of citations come to mind reading these posts. At the very minimum call 911 they are trained to deal with such cases.

Luke 10:30-37 The good samaritan
usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke10.htm

Luke 12:5
"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Luke 17:33
Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses it will save it.

John 15:12-13
This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.
. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
 
In my personal opinion, every single one of those firefighters and police officers who stood by for an hour and watched a man drown, without making any efforts at rescue, was in grave moral error.
 
I agree, there is no pat answer for every situation.

That being said, in this situation, I think it would have been very un-Christian-like for nobody to at least try to talk him out of it. Granted, nobody could be blamed for not jumping in and trying to rescue him, at least not without the proper equipment (flotation device). I would have thought that the professionals responsible for public safety could have figured out some way to at least make an effor to help him out.

Morally speaking, to me this is like a whole group of people standing around while some poor guy starves to death in an alleyway…it just takes longer. 😦
 
I think we are always obligated to help someone in need,especially someone who is in mortal danger.I lost someone to suicide and went against my instincts to visit him.Three days later,my brother hung himself.
 
When I first read the OP quickly, I was getting ready to write about how a person is not obligated to help him or her self, but must at least call police or 911. But then I realized that the police and firefighters were there…

They should have done something. That is their job.

Wow. That is very very very sad. :crying:
 
michelleds said:
In my personal opinion, every single one of those firefighters and police officers who stood by for an hour and watched a man drown, without making any efforts at rescue, was in grave moral error.
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I agree.
 
michelleds said:
In my personal opinion, every single one of those firefighters and police officers who stood by for an hour and watched a man drown, without making any efforts at rescue, was in grave moral error.
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They should also be fired on the spot for gross incompetance. They’re supposed to be protectors, not spectators.
 
Stjudeprayforus said:
The police, fireman and **coast guard **just stood on the shore and just watched him die.

(The authorities cited budget cuts and lack of training. (not sure what kind of training is needed to walk out to him)
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If the Coast Guard is not trained to pull a man out of the water, we have huge problems in our military!
 
Stjudeprayforus said:
The police, fireman and coast guard just stood on the shore and just watched him die.
(he died of hypothermia) Finally a woman who is only 20 went out and dragged his dead body to shore…

On the radio this was being discussed and Christians were saying… we are obligated to save him. Others were saying… he could have taken them with him to a watery grave they are under no obligation.

I know I would have gone in to try and talk to him. I don’t think I would be strong enough to drag a grown man into shore… but I know I would have tried to reason with him.
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Dragged to a watery grave? In 4 feet of water? Unless the man held somebody under, or somebody trying to help him stayed in the cold water too long, I don’t see any chance of that. And surely all those police, Coast Guard etc. watching could have dragged him back ashore, even against his will, with little risk to themselves?

Of course we are obligated to try to stop a suicide if at all possible. Even just from a secular perspective: those people need help and are of unsound mind. I had a friend who overdosed on painkillers once. She survived thank God: I had to call an ambulance in a foreign language for her. I’m very glad the emergency services didn’t just wash their hands of her.
 
Corki said:
If the Coast Guard is not trained to pull a man out of the water, we have huge problems in our military!
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AMEN.

The coast guards excuse was they had no boats to go in that shallow of water.
 
Suicide elicits ethical debate

insidebayarea.com/news/ci_18208340?source=pkg

ALAMEDA – Only two people went into the chilly San Francisco Bay waters Monday to help a suicidal Raymond Zack and neither wore a police or firefighter uniform.

When Zack, 52, despondent and depressed, walked fully clothed into the bay at Robert Crown Memorial State Beach to take his own life, at least 10 Alameda firefighters and police officers made the choice not to come to his aid. They stood on the beach and watched, for about an hour.

Their decision not to retrieve the man from the 55-degree bay waters when it was clear the U.S. Coast Guard was not going to be able to rescue him in time raises the question: When should first responders ignore protocol and provide lifesaving support?

“I believe that the value of life supersedes man-made laws. Why is there confusion about that?” said Jack Hoban, who cowrites the column “The Ethical Warrior” for PoliceOne.com and is also president of Resolution Group International, a New Jersey-based group that conducts leadership and ethics training.

Firefighters say they could not enter the water because budget cuts two years ago did not allow the department to recertify in land-based water rescues. A rescue attempt would have opened the city to liability. Police said they did not know if Zack, 6 feet 3 and 280 pounds, was violent, armed or had drugs in his system.

The Coast Guard sent a boat but it could only get within a mile of the man because of shallow water. A Coast Guard helicopter dispatched from San Francisco did not make it before Zack lost consciousness, a Coast Guard spokesman said.

A kite boarder went out to Zack, circled him several times and reported back to witnesses that Zack said he wanted to stay in the water and pray. From all reports, he was the only person to speak with Zack in the water. After the incident was widely reported, many have wondered: Was a kayak available? What about a bullhorn to talk with the man? Could someone have retrieved a personal watercraft or a surfboard and gone out to him? Was no one willing to swim out to interact to the man, even for a few minutes?

“What a hero will do, even though he doesn’t know if he will live through this thing, whether he is going to drown or be killed, he risks his life to save others,” Hoban said.
**
Witnesses say about 70 people also in the area – walkers, joggers, bike riders, dog walkers – did nothing to try to persuade Zack to wade back through the shallow, muddy waters to the beach.**

“Certainly a civilian is not legally or morally required to endanger their own life to save another person. But when you are a police officer or firefighter, you have an obligation to do it,” Josephson said. “My assessment is that it’s very unfortunate and very ethically questionable that either or both organizations did not try harder.”

Zack’s stepmother, Dolores Berry, 84, arrived on the beach shortly after Zack, who was hospitalized last year for psychiatric problems, walked into the water at 11:30 a.m. Monday. She is not able to walk so was unable to attempt a rescue herself. She said she is outraged that her stepson died while so many people watched.

When Zack went from standing upright in water up to his neck to floating face down about 50 yards from the shore, a young woman, who has declined requests for interviews, swam out and pulled his motionless body to shore. He was transported to Alameda Hospital, where he died. Zack may have died from hypothermia, the mother said.
 
Firefighters say they could not enter the water because budget cuts two years ago did not allow the department to recertify in land-based water rescues.
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So they used this man’s life to stage a protest over budget cuts - IN FRONT OF HIS MOTHER!!!

Sick, sick, sick!

What do you want to bet they were union?
 
His mother had to sit and watch her son dying for an hour while no one lifted a finger to help him? What is wrong with people? I cannot believe the police, firemen and coastguard used the budget cut excuse for not doing the spirit of their job.
 
wild_thing said:
His mother had to sit and watch her son dying for an hour while no one lifted a finger to help him? What is wrong with people? I cannot believe the police, firemen and coastguard used the budget cut excuse for not doing the spirit of their job.
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The devaluing of human life was on full display.
 
wild_thing said:
His mother had to sit and watch her son dying for an hour while no one lifted a finger to help him? What is wrong with people? I cannot believe the police, firemen and coastguard used the budget cut excuse for not doing the spirit of their job.
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I cannot believe this either. Sick and awful. If we are obligated to stop abortion then yes yes yes most certainly we are obligated to stop a suicide. It does’nt look like anyone else’s life was at risk here either.
 
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