Are we Saved by “Faith Alone” or “Faith and Good Works”?

[Jimmy_B]

Are we Saved by “Faith Alone” or “Faith and Good Works”?

Simply put; “good works” means, doing those things that are pleasing to God.

What Christian is apposed to doing those things that are pleasing to God?

So, what is the opposite of “good works”?

The opposite of “good works” would be, doing those things that are not pleasing to God or failing to do what is pleasing to God.
_____________________________

If you believe that we are not judged by our “good works”, then please answer these 5 questions:

**1. **If “good works”, physical acts (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, Then why do “Born Again” Christians recite the “Born Again” prayer? Isn’t reciting the “sinners” prayer, a physical act or an act of “good works”? Isn’t this act performed prior to one receiving “God’s grace”?

Reciting the “Born Again” prayer would definitely be, “good works”.

2. If “good works” (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, then why do we baptize and why are we Baptized? Isn’t Baptism a physical act or an act of “good works”?

The act of Baptism is definitely an act of “good works”.

3. If “good works” (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, then why do non-Catholic, Christians even bother with funeral ceremonies? Why do Christian Pastors read or recite prayers at funerals? Isn’t a funeral ceremony a physical act or an act of “good works”?

Funeral ceremonies are definitely an act of “good works”.

4. If “good works” (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, then why do non-Catholic, Christians even bother with “wedding ceremonies” (Holy Matrimony), isn’t a wedding ceremony an act of “good works”?

Wedding ceremonies are definitely an act of “good works”.

5. If “good works” (doing those things which are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, because our Salvation is “guaranteed”, then why is it necessary for us to pray, read the Bible, go to Church on the Sabbath, avoid sin, forgive, love and asked to be forgiven?

Aren’t all these, all acts of “good works””?
_____________________________

Please let me know if you disagree with my comments, thank you.

 

[jdnrite01]

“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only” James 2:24

 

[Nick_Jones]

Aren’t all these, all acts of “good works””?

Please let me know if you disagree with my comments, thank you.

Yes, they are, in some ways, good works. But why do you think that any of them would have a role in saving the person who does them?

 

[JonNC]

Jimmy,
BTW, I read on some post it is easier for you to see larger print.
The growing convergence on the doctrine of justification is a good thing. I think we all agree that we are justified by the suffering, death and resurrection of Christ. HE is the savior. Our works alone, no matter how good, cannot serve as meriting Grace.
Now if one chooses to say that justification is an ongoing process where our good works play an important role (once, of course we are justified by Grace), or if one chooses to say that Grace requires us to respond with works pleasing to God, I can’t see the difference. I am justified by Grace through faith. That justification requires me to respond to Christ’s command that I do good works. If I’m not willing to do good works in response to his Grace, then my faith is truly dead.

Finally, one might say that being Baptized is “good works”, but I was a month and a day old. It might have been a good work by my parents, but far more importantly is was Christ acting through them to make me His.

Thanks, Jimmy, for your thoughtful posts.

 

[Singinbeauty]

How can you separate the two?

A ‘live’ Faith cannot survive without works because, as we all know, Faith without works is dead. If we believe in Christ and what / who He is then we perform a ‘good work’ because we are obeying.

Now, a TRUE Faith will bring on the works, just as much as life in your body brings on the breathing. You cannot live without breathing anymore than your Faith will survive without the good works.

 

[Syele]

Aren’t all these, all acts of “good works””?
_____________________________

Please let me know if you disagree with my comments, thank you.

You seem to really misunderstand Protestant teaching. We don’t believe that doing good works is bad.

 

[cascherman]

I think the general sola fide protestant would respond by saying that works are good but will not gain us any *credit *toward salvation.

Where as a Catholic would cite from the Bible when Christ says to the man who asks him how to gain eternal life to follow the commandments.

I have a serious problem with the idea that Martin Luther preached that we could commit adultery and murder 1,000 times a day and it would not affect our standing with God. Doing no bad work is indeed a good work and over and over in the Bible God tells us to follow his commandments.

 

[SIA]

Are we Saved by “Faith Alone” or “Faith and Good Works”?

Simply put; “good works” means, doing those things that are pleasing to God.

What Christian is apposed to doing those things that are pleasing to God?

So, what is the opposite of “good works”?

The opposite of “good works” would be, doing those things that are not pleasing to God or failing to do what is pleasing to God.
_____________________________

If you believe that we are not judged by our “good works”, then please answer these 5 questions:

**1. **If “good works”, physical acts (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, Then why do “Born Again” Christians recite the “Born Again” prayer? Isn’t reciting the “sinners” prayer, a physical act or an act of “good works”? Isn’t this act performed prior to one receiving “God’s grace”?

Reciting the “Born Again” prayer would definitely be, “good works”.

2. If “good works” (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, then why do we baptize and why are we Baptized? Isn’t Baptism a physical act or an act of “good works”?

The act of Baptism is definitely an act of “good works”.

3. If “good works” (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, then why do non-Catholic, Christians even bother with funeral ceremonies? Why do Christian Pastors read or recite prayers at funerals? Isn’t a funeral ceremony a physical act or an act of “good works”?

Funeral ceremonies are definitely an act of “good works”.

4. If “good works” (doing those things that are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, then why do non-Catholic, Christians even bother with “wedding ceremonies” (Holy Matrimony), isn’t a wedding ceremony an act of “good works”?

Wedding ceremonies are definitely an act of “good works”.

5. If “good works” (doing those things which are pleasing to God) are not necessary for our Salvation, because our Salvation is “guaranteed”, then why is it necessary for us to pray, read the Bible, go to Church on the Sabbath, avoid sin, forgive, love and asked to be forgiven?

Aren’t all these, all acts of “good works””?
_____________________________

Please let me know if you disagree with my comments, thank you.

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ. Good works always accompany proper faith but good works won’t do a thing in the realm of salvation. We could never do anything in our sin nature to be boastful before God (hence Abraham). That is why our salvation totally depends upon Jesus. That’s not Protestant nor Catholic; it is the truth of God’s word.

 

[cascherman]

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ. Good works always accompany proper faith but good works won’t do a thing in the realm of salvation. We could never do anything in our sin nature to be boastful before God (hence Abraham). That is why our salvation totally depends upon Jesus. That’s not Protestant nor Catholic; it is the truth of God’s word.

A few thoughts on your response:

#1- Being boastful and gaining merit from God by doing good are two different things. To boast is to claim merit and to receive merit from God is a gift. As the catechism says “…so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful…” Article 2008

#2- No Catholic will disagree with you that merit will not gain us salvation. We are justified by grace, given to us by Christ’s death. Merit is just what naturally follows in a healthy relationship between us and God.

But, I will not agree that it does not matter what we do once we are justified by God’s grace. It is a relationship and if you continually flex the limits of that relationship by doing what the other does not like then it will be a broken relationship. Especially if we just caulk it up to our sinful nature and don’t feel bad about what we have done (and then neglect do what is necessary for forgiveness)

That is why our salvation totally depends upon Jesus. That’s not Protestant nor Catholic; it is the truth of God’s word.

I don’t agree with it totally depending on Christ. If it totally depended on Christ then no one would have to be any religion and everyone would be saved. So you believe no response from us is necessary?

 

[JonNC]

ncccusa.org/faithandorder/journals/newhorizons/010103.pdf

The above link is by Kenneth Loyer. It is an interesting read on this subject, particularly his use of the term “responsible reception”.

 

[SIA]

A few thoughts on your response:

#1- Being boastful and gaining merit from God by doing good are two different things. To boast is to claim merit and to receive merit from God is a gift. As the catechism says “…so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful…” Article 2008

#2- No Catholic will disagree with you that merit will not gain us salvation. We are justified by grace, given to us by Christ’s death. Merit is just what naturally follows in a healthy relationship between us and God.

But, I will not agree that it does not matter what we do once we are justified by God’s grace. It is a relationship and if you continually flex the limits of that relationship by doing what the other does not like then it will be a broken relationship. Especially if we just caulk it up to our sinful nature and don’t feel bad about what we have done (and then neglect do what is necessary for forgiveness)

I don’t agree with it totally depending on Christ. If it totally depended on Christ then no one would have to be any religion and everyone would be saved. So you believe no response from us is necessary?

I never said that it doesn’t matter what you after you are saved and Scripture addresses that. Scripture never says that merits can be attributed to grace. The Cathechism may say that but it is Scripture that counts in all matters, sorry. I also disagree with you on your claim of personal merit not being accounted to salvation. Isn’t that the basis for Purgatory? Vicarious atonement.

 

[drtwhite]

“Intent” without associated “action” may not as well exist. If I have every “faith” that I can provide nourishment for my child, but never prepare the first meal for him, he will perish–I need to follow up on that “faith” by actually doing what I believe I can.

I have every faith that I can do an effective job for my employer; but, I’ve noticed, that employer won’t reward me (with a paycheck) unless I actually do something.

“Faith” represents the “talk the talk” scenario;
“Good Works” represents the “walk the walk” scenario.

We are measured by what we do; not by what we intend(ed) to do.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Good Works are Necessary

Heb 10:38
But my just one shall live by faith …

Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him (God) …

Pet 2:12
Maintain good conduct among the Gentiles, so that if they speak of you as evildoers, they may observe your good works and glorify God on the day of visitation.

Rev 2:2
I know your works, your labor, and your endurance …
Mt 5:16
Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.

Mt 16:27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.

Mt 25:34-36
Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

James 2:14-18
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

1 Cor 15:58
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be firm, steadfast, always fully devoted to the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Heb 6:10
For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love you have demonstrated for his name by having served and continuing to serve the holy ones.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Good Works are Necessary

James 2:20-22
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.

Mt 16:27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.

1 Cor 3:8
The one who plants and the one who waters are equal, and each will receive wages in proportion to his labor.

Col 3:23-24
Whatever you do, do from the heart, as for the Lord and not for others, knowing that you will receive from the Lord the due payment of the inheritance.

James 2:24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James 2:26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Faith and Good Works are need for Salvation

Rom 9:31-32
Israel, who pursued the law of righteousness, did not attain to that law … because they did it not by faith, but as if it could be done by works.
Gal 3:11
And that no one is justified before God by the law is clear, for “the one who is righteous by faith will live.”
The Bible declares that salvation is a gift of God alone and constantly reaffirms that faith has a primary role in that salvation.
Eph 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast.
Heb 6:1
Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God,
Heb 9:14
… how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to worship the living God.
2 Tim 1:9
He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Titus 3:4-5
… the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy.
Rom 3:27-28
What occasion is there then for boasting? It is ruled out. On what principle, that of works? No, rather on the principle of faith. For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Gal 2:16
(We) know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

The constant teaching of the Roman Catholic Church on these Scriptures was clearly restated on January 13, 1547.

Council of Trent, On Justification, Ch. VIII
When the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely, these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, “without which it is impossible to please God” and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, “if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise,” as the Apostle says, “grace is no more grace.”

The Council also reiterated the relationship of good works to man justified by faith.

Council of Trent, On Justification, Ch. XVI
Therefore, to men justified in this manner, whether they have preserved uninterruptedly the grace received or recovered it when lost, are to be pointed out the words of the Apostle: “Abound in every good work, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord. For God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name”; and “Do not lose confidence, which hath a great reward.” Hence, to those who work well “unto the end” and trust in God, eternal life is to be offered, both as a grace mercifully promised to the sons of God through Christ Jesus, and as a reward promised by God himself, to be faithfully given to their good works and merits
.

 

[onenow1]

Yes, they are, in some ways, good works. But why do you think that any of them would have a role in saving the person who does them?

Hi,All
One of Jesus last commands was love one another even as I have loved you ! Opinion= any who believe it’s not hard work to love all your neighbors is deluding himself . What’s curious is this.

Cor 13:13 As it is these remain faith, hope and love, the three of them; and the greatest of them is love.

Quote= OneNow1I believe this pretty much diaspels the opinion of faith alone. Faith in what Jesus taught is the key,this is what the ten commandments teach in its entirety, love for one another, above all the love of the one triune God.

Ohav Shalom, OneNow1

 

[GatorMommy]

Good works always accompany proper faith but good works won’t do a thing in the realm of salvation.

Doing good works, or producing “good fruit” is a MUST if we are to remain a part of the vine, which is Christ. Failing to do so will result in your being pruned away.

Salvation is an active verb, not a passive one.

 

[onenow1]

Doing good works, or producing “good fruit” is a MUST if we are to remain a part of the vine, which is Christ. Failing to do so will result in your being pruned away.

Salvation is an active verb, not a passive one.

Hi, Good insight G.M,
Yes indeed ! God became flesh participation in human activities, that’s why, in baptism we die with Christ and are raised as adopted sons and daughters.

Love and Peace, OneNow1

 

[Deacon110]

A few thoughts on your response:

#1- Being boastful and gaining merit from God by doing good are two different things. To boast is to claim merit and to receive merit from God is a gift. As the catechism says “…so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful…” Article 2008

I don’t think any Protestant would disagree with you here. But you are mis-reading what the post means. Paul tells us that we are not saved by works lest we be boastful. He’s saying that we can’t do good things and boast that it will get us to Heaven because it won’t. We may be saying the same thing

#2- No Catholic will disagree with you that merit will not gain us salvation. We are justified by grace, given to us by Christ’s death. Merit is just what naturally follows in a healthy relationship between us and God.

What do you mean by merit? Again you’re implying that good works will somehow earn us higher favor with GOD. Good works may be pleasing to GOD but they do nothing to improve your chances of salvation. GOD does not give you more favor or more grace because of good works. There’s a big difference there. Unless you’re implying that good works has an effect on us beyond salvation. That’s a different point altogether.

But, I will not agree that it does not matter what we do once we are justified by God’s grace. It is a relationship and if you continually flex the limits of that relationship by doing what the other does not like then it will be a broken relationship. Especially if we just caulk it up to our sinful nature and don’t feel bad about what we have done (and then neglect do what is necessary for forgiveness)

As Paul states in his letter to the Romans you can’t continue to live in sin because to purposely choose sin means you become a slave to it. And we know we can’t serve 2 masters. But it does not mean we will stop sinning. We sin everyday intentionally and unintentionally. But this is where Jesus is so vital to us because he paid the price for our sin. No matter how good your relationship is with GOD you are still a sinner. And a sinner cannot be in GOD’s presence. That’s where we need Jesus because HE is the only way to GOD.

I agree we can’t just say “Oh well, good thing I have faith since I embezzled money”. I would seriously call into question someone who claims to have Faith but then proceeds to commit murder or blatantly disrespects the 10 commandments. A true believer and these types of actions just don’t mix. I think that’s all the Protestants are saying.

I don’t agree with it totally depending on Christ. If it totally depended on Christ then no one would have to be any religion and everyone would be saved. So you believe no response from us is necessary?

It is totally dependent on Christ. That’s from Jesus HIMSELF in the Bible. If it’s not Christ then who is it? You have to believe in Christ. You can’t just say well Jesus did the work so I’ll just sit back and wait to go to Heaven. You do have to believe. There’s a big difference.

PEACE

 

[john_ennis]

Any work of love that anybody does, has Christ’s love as its source.

And who would say that Christ’s love is not a saving love?

So of course, our works of love play a part in salvation–ours and others’.

Peace.
John