Are we saved by baptism alone?

[Nita]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

VI. The Necessity of Baptism

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
…
1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3M.HTM

 

[Nicene]

Baptism is the entrance ramp to the Christian life. The Catechism calls it the “gateway” to the Christian life. CCC 1213a Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua) . . . . The dichotomy of “grace” and supernatural faith, hope, and charity that is sometimes presented is a false dichotomy.

We receive supernatural faith, hope, and charity when we are Baptized (CCC 1813), even as infants (St. Thomas tells us [when discussing Confirmation but the same principle applies] we are not to think age of the body as being equivalent to age of the soul).

Supernatural faith, hope, and charity ARE graces! That is WHY they are called “supernatural”.

If a newly Baptized person virtually immediately dies, yes of course he/she will go to Heaven (and even an infant in this situation of immanent death should also be given Confirmation see CCC 1307 and the Eucharist although if they are not given these they will still go to Heaven).

So in that sense, yes a Baptized person will be saved. But there is MORE to the justification equation for most of us.

Once we are justified, we MUST be justified further still. That’s why our justification is a process—a lifelong process.

We MUST be “further justified”. This “further” justification of course depends on our state in life. It is not a legalistic checklist. An adult will have different expectations than a baby. This is part of the reason WHY we are “judged” and not “list-checked”.

Our justification is a moment followed by a lifelong process. And sins of omission not just committing mortal sin, but omitting the faith, hope, or charity we had received at Baptism can have disastrous consequences.

Nicely stated. The fundamentalist trap is one of baptism being final justification which some catholics can fall prey to, This is not the case:

**Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. **

We must cooperate with grace. If we steadfastly refuse to cooperate with grace, we can accept the grace of God we received in vain. This grace will not avail us because of our rejection of it.

But the CCC tells us we “MUST” increase in the Christian life.CCC 162a,c Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. . . . we must beg the Lord to increase our faith;45 it must be “working through charity,” abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.46 The Council of Trent tells us the same thing.COUNCIL OF TRENT (Chapter XI) But no one, however much justified, should consider himself exempt from the observance of the commandments;Sins of omission can have severe consequences, not just sins of commission.MATTHEW 25:31-32a-33, 41-46 31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, . . . 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . . 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The question I often ask is “why were we given the Holy Spirit?”. Seems like an easy answer. But the usual answer I get is so we can know the truth. Truth is irrelevant if it has no consequence, it is in fact pointless to know at all. So why did God give us His Spirit? The correct answer of course is the actual biblical one. So we can do Gods will:

**Eze 36: 25 I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
26 A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
27]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.

**
Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,"

**Eze 19 And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them; I will take the stony heart out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
20 that they may walk in my statutes and keep my ordinances and obey them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. **

(Unfortunately I had to cut some of your post to fit the above scriptures, wish I didn’t have to, they were pertinent)

Peace and God Bless Nicene

 

[DavidFilmer]

The egoism of DavidFilmer against the Church’s teaching on salvation continues unabated.

Ah, of course, an ad hominem attack - the tactic of the desperate. When you cannot argue the message, insult the messenger.

Have I cited anything in this thread other than the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I defer to the Magesterium of the Church. How is this egotistical, or “against the Church?”

What is needed is to “remain faithful to the demands of baptism”

Obviously. To remain faithful to the demands of Baptism means we don’t fall into mortal sin (which is the ONLY thing that can forfeit our Baptismal Grace). We remain faithful to our Baptism by NOT forfeiting it. Likewise, we remain faithful to our marriage vows by NOT acting against them (having an affair, etc). I am not required to buy my wife roses to remain faithful to my marriage vow.

**CCC 1274 **emphasises that it is “the faithful Christian who has ’kept the seal’ until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life ‘marked with the sign of faith,’ with his baptismal faith in expectation of the blessed vision of God – the consummation of the faith – and in the hope of resurrection.”

Obviously. That’s what I said. What do YOU think this article is saying?

What do Catholics teach about being saved?
Answer by Fr. John Echert on 09-02-2007 (EWTN):
[etc, etc, etc]
Answer by Bill Bilton on 04-16-2002 (EWTN):

[etc, etc, etc]
I don’t know (or know of) Fathers Echert or Bilton. Being featured on EWTN is, not in itself, an endorsement by the Magesterium of the Church (Fr. John Corapi was a frequent EWTN contributor).

I asked you to cite the teaching of the Catholic Church, not the teaching of a couple of televised Catholic priests. You cited CCC 1274. Bravo - it is an actual Church teaching. But it does not say that we are saved by faith+works.

I have asked you this question, in this thread, TWICE, and you have not responded. I ask you to at least answer my question, which I pose for a THIRD time:

Are you agreeing or disagreeing that no Catholic is ever required, as a condition of his salvation, to perform any good work?

 

[Jack007]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12287850&postcount=29

Am I being offensive?

 

[Abu]

Jack007 #24
Thank you for your reference to the facts, once again.

Filmer is immune to reality and truth when they contradict his preconceived fantasies. He has been shown the truth innumerable times.

Jesus redeemed us (opened Heaven), we have to play our part to be saved. As St Paul teaches: “But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.” (1Cor 9:27). And again: “Wherefore he who thinks that he stands, let him take heed lest he fall.” (1 Cor 10:12). Yet again, “And we exhort you not to receive the grace of God in vain.” (2 Cor 6:1).

“It is not those who say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Mt 7:21).
When asked “What must I do to have eternal life?” Jesus answered, “Keep the commandments.” (Mt 19:16-17).

As stated by Paul, what is lacking for our salvation is what only we can do, for the sake of His Body which is the Church. Christ was acting for the whole human race, not instead of, not as a substitute. “He bore our sins in His own Body on the Cross.” (1Pet. 2:29). What did Paul say must happen because Christ is the one mediator? “Supplication, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men” (1Tim 2:1-5). Thus we are all called to be co-redeemers. [See *Christ In Eclipse, Frank Sheed, Sheed & Ward, 1978, p 105-108).

As explained in *The Acts of Explicit Faith Necessary for Salvation *in Apologetics and Catholic Doctrine:
“without faith, it is impossible to please God. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him” [Heb 11:6].

Further, “there must also be hope, which is expressed in the belief that ’He rewards those who seek Him’. There must also be the holiness that comes from charity. Hebrews also says, ‘Strive….for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.’ ” [Heb 12:14].

“Implicit always in this love or charity is repentance and contrition for sin: Our Lord warns, ‘unless you repent you will all likewise perish.’ ” [Lk 13:3].
Apologetics and Catholic Doctrine, Archbishop Sheehan, revised by Fr Peter Joseph, The Saint Austin Press, 2001, p 288].

 

[Vico]

From Pope Benedict XVI (2008), General Audience:
Seen in this perspective, the centrality of justification without works, the primary object of Paul’s preaching, does not clash with faith that works through love; indeed, it demands that our faith itself be expressed in a life in accordance with the Spirit. Often there is seen an unfounded opposition between St Paul’s theology and that of St James, who writes in his Letter: “as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead”(2: 26). In reality, while Paul is primarily concerned to show that faith in Christ is necessary and sufficient, James accentuates the consequential relations between faith and works (cf. Jas 2: 24). Therefore, for both Paul and James, faith that is active in love testifies to the freely given gift of justification in Christ. Salvation received in Christ needs to be preserved and witnessed to “with fear and trembling. For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure… Do all things without grumbling or questioning… holding fast the word of life”, St Paul was to say further, to the Christians of Philippi (cf. Phil 2: 12-14, 16).

We are often induced to fall into the same misunderstandings that characterized the community of Corinth; those Christians thought that since they had been freely justified in Christ through faith, “they could do as they pleased”. And they believed and it often seems that today’s Christians also think this that it is permissible to create divisions in the Church, the Body of Christ, to celebrate the Eucharist without looking after the neediest of our brothers, to aspire to better charisms without being aware that each is a member of the other, and so forth. The consequences of a faith that is not manifested in love are disastrous, because it reduces itself to the arbitrariness and subjectivism that is most harmful to us and to our brothers. On the contrary, in following St Paul, we should gain a new awareness of the fact that precisely because we are justified in Christ, we no longer belong to ourselves but have become a temple of the Spirit and hence are called to glorify God in our body with the whole of our existence (cf. 1 Cor 6: 19). We would be underselling the inestimable value of justification, purchased at the high price of Christ’s Blood, if we were not to glorify him with our body. In fact, our worship at the same time reasonable and spiritual is exactly this, which is why St Paul exhorts us “to present [our] bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God” (Rm 12: 1).

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html

 

[Jack007]

Jack007 #24
Thank you for your reference to the facts, once again.

You are welcome.

Filmer is immune to reality and truth when they contradict his preconceived fantasies. He has been shown the truth innumerable times.

The egoism of DavidFilmer against the Church’s teaching on salvation continues unabated.

I do, however, say that those words could be avoided.
Let us be peaceful in discussion. (And not get suspended by the moderators!)

And please reply to the question which our friend and fellow member is asking repeatedly:

Are you agreeing or disagreeing that no Catholic is ever required, as a condition of his salvation, to perform any good work?

My answer is,* in the strict sense*, no.

 

[Abu]

Once again, the answer to Filmer’s selfist supposition that no Catholic is ever required, as a condition of his salvation, to perform any good work has been thoroughly answered by the Church through Her Sacred Scriptures, Her Magisterium and Her faithful apologists.

Works
The Church teaches we are saved by faith and works, not by faith alone. What are “works”? Are these things that we should morally do? Thanks.
**Answer by Fr.Stephen F. Torraco on 01-15-2008 (EWTN): **]
“Works” refers to human actions by which we grow in faith, hope, and charity. Such “works” are made possible only by the grace of God.
tinyurl.com/ogahmzf

Salvation
Answer by David Gregson on 09-19-2007 (EWTN):
A mistake that Protestants often make is that they interpret what Christ says by what St. Paul says, rather than interpreting St. Paul by what Christ says. For example, Christ, in his simile of the sheep and goats, lists a number of charitable works on which our salvation depends (Matt 25:31-46). Reading St. Paul in light of the gospels helps us to realize that when he says “works of the law” won’t save us, he’s not talking about good works in general, but the (513 statutes of) the Mosaic Law. Good works in general are necessary. See Romans 2:6-11. It’s not that works are added to faith, but that faith, in the light of Christ’s teaching, implies faithfulness, taking up our cross and following Him. That means obedience.
tinyurl.com/mxgglrk

‘The Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught a doctrine of salvation by works…that we can “work” our way into Heaven. Additionally, nowhere in the Bible does it teach that we are saved by “faith alone.” The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “faith alone” appears is in James 2:24, where it says that we are not justified (or saved) by faith alone.
The Bible says very clearly that we are not saved by faith alone.

‘Works do have something to do with our salvation. Numerous passages in the New Testament that I know of about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone. We see this in Romans 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Peter 1, Revelation 20 and 22, 2 Corinthians 5, and many, many more verses.

‘If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Corinthians 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

‘As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace.’
catholicscomehome.org/salvation/
[My bold].

 

[arjanssen]

Rom 3:20-28
Rom 4:1-6
Rom 9:11
Rom 9:32
Rom 11:6
Gal 2:16
Gal 3:1-10
Eph 2:9-10
2 Tim 1:9
Titus 3:14
Heb 6:1
Heb 9:14

 

[DavidFilmer]

Blah blah, irrelevant stuff that Abu has already said

“Justification by faith alone is a new doctrine; it was unheard of in the Christian community before the sixteenth century.”

Well, THAT’s new. Of course, this thread is NOT about Sola Fide, but about Sola Gratias. Those are two VERY different concepts. I’m saying that the Church does not teach that we must, individually, even have FAITH in order to be saved. We could be Baptized as infants (in which case the faith of Baptism comes from our parents, godparents, and the Christian community at large, but not from us). We could somehow become adopted by atheists (or Muslims or whatever) parents, and never learn about Jesus. If we manage to avoid mortal sin up to our death, we are GUARANTEED salvation. THAT is the DOCTRINE of the Catholic Church (and I actually cited the relevant teaching). We are saved by the GRACE of Christian Baptism, and by nothing else - neither faith NOR works.

The LAST thing that I am saying is that we are saved by faith alone. Try to keep up.

I ask you AGAIN (this is, what, the third time?) this VERY simple question, and ask your reply:

Are you agreeing or disagreeing that no Catholic is ever required, as a condition of his salvation, to perform any good work?

Oh, c’mon - it’s a one-word answer. You type (and retype) paragraph after paragraph. I just want a yes or no. It’s one word. Can you spare me five seconds to answer my simple question?

 

[Jack007]

Rom 3:20-28
Rom 4:1-6
Rom 9:11
Rom 9:32
Rom 11:6
Gal 2:16
Gal 3:1-10
Eph 2:9-10
2 Tim 1:9
Titus 3:14
Heb 6:1
Heb 9:14

Sorry, do you mind posting the words? It will help members.

 

[Vico]

In another thread, David Filmer and I had the following exchange (excerpted here):

I think our disagreement is at least partly semantics. Ultimately, yes, it is God’s grace that saves us; but statements that “we are saved by X alone” tend to be wrong, because in common parliance they exclude the other conditions for salvation, as with the Protestant solas.

It is grace indeed that gives us the power to make salutary acts; but we do make salutary acts. Scripture tells us to work out our salvation (Phil. 2:12), and that “by works a man is justified…” (Jas. 2:24). I don’t think it ever says we are saved by X alone.

To further support my position I refer the reader to the Council of Trent, Session VI, Canons 24, 26, 31, & 32. These canons mainly treat “faith alone,” but I think are applicable also to “baptism alone.”

David, you are especially invited to comment here, but I also open the discussion to anyone else who has some (name removed by moderator)ut.

So does salvation in this thread mean finally or at a particular moment? It seems that finally is the significant meaning. This requires final penitence. If no sinful thought or act or omission occurs after baptism, then there is salvation, however that could occur without any works if one dies before the age of reason. Also if one baptized does no good works, yet repents finally there is salvation. But it can be argued that the final penitence is a work.

 

[Jack007]

So does salvation in this thread mean finally or at a particular moment? It seems that finally is the significant meaning. This requires final penitence. If no sinful thought or act or omission occurs after baptism, then there is salvation, however that could occur without any works if one dies before the age of reason. Also if one baptized does no good works, yet repents finally there is salvation. But it can be argued that the final penitence is a work.

 

[porthos11]

In another thread, David Filmer and I had the following exchange (excerpted here):

I think our disagreement is at least partly semantics. Ultimately, yes, it is God’s grace that saves us; but statements that “we are saved by X alone” tend to be wrong, because in common parliance they exclude the other conditions for salvation, as with the Protestant solas.

It is grace indeed that gives us the power to make salutary acts; but we do make salutary acts. Scripture tells us to work out our salvation (Phil. 2:12), and that “by works a man is justified…” (Jas. 2:24). I don’t think it ever says we are saved by X alone.

To further support my position I refer the reader to the Council of Trent, Session VI, Canons 24, 26, 31, & 32. These canons mainly treat “faith alone,” but I think are applicable also to “baptism alone.”

David, you are especially invited to comment here, but I also open the discussion to anyone else who has some (name removed by moderator)ut.

You are both correct. It is Catholic teaching that we are saved by grace alone. They key thing is to die in the state of grace.

That we can lose the state of grace by mortal sin, including mortal sins of omission still does not negate this fact. But no acts are salutary unless we are in the state of grace, so the state of grace is the key requirement. And we ordinarily enter the state of grace through Baptism.

 

[arjanssen]

You are both correct. It is Catholic teaching that we are saved by grace alone. They key thing is to die in the state of grace.

That we can lose the state of grace by mortal sin, including mortal sins of omission still does not negate this fact. But no acts are salutary unless we are in the state of grace, so the state of grace is the key requirement. And we ordinarily enter the state of grace through Baptism.

In the states of Grace are found nowhere in the bible. Eternal salvation is though.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Baptism saves you now; No one will see nor enter the Kingdom of God without baptism; John 3:3-5

Baptism by Water

Baptism by blood

After Baptism, everything else is applied to “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling”

Just a thought

 

[porthos11]

In the states of Grace are found nowhere in the bible. Eternal salvation is though.

Yes they are. You may not find the phrase, but the concept is definitely there.

 

[DavidFilmer]

So does salvation in this thread mean finally or at a particular moment?

Both, really.

It seems that finally is the significant meaning. This requires final penitence. If no sinful thought or act or omission occurs after baptism, then there is salvation, however that could occur without any works if one dies before the age of reason.

Final penitence is not categorically required, even beyond the age of reason. You assume that a person WILL commit, not just sin, but mortal sin, after the age of reason. Such an idea is completely unsupported in the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Also if one baptized does no good works, yet repents finally there is salvation.

Repent of WHAT? Not doing good works??? It is possible that the failure to perform a good work could constitute a mortal sin, given sufficient knowledge and intent, in which case we must repent of our sin. But no Catholic is ever required, as a condition of his salvation, to perform any good work.

The ONLY thing that can remove us from our state of Baptismal Grace is mortal sin. Not lack of faith. Not lack of works. ONLY mortal sin.

The ONLY thing that can restore us to our Baptismal Grace, should we forfeit it, is Sacramental Confession. Not faith. Not works.

We are saved by the Grace of Christian Baptism, and by nothing else. Nothing “augments” our salvation - we are either saved or damned, and that distinction rests solely on whether we have preserved our Baptismal Grace (or restored it through Sacramental Confession).

We are saved by the Grace of Christian Baptism, and by nothing else. If we are saved, works will not “increase” our salvation (you can’t be “more saved,” just like you can’t get “more Jesus” by queuing up twice at Eucharist). If we are not saved, works will not restore it. Works have no place in the Catholic economy of salvation.

 

[DavidFilmer]

You are both correct. It is Catholic teaching that we are saved by grace alone. They key thing is to die in the state of grace.

That we can lose the state of grace by mortal sin, including mortal sins of omission still does not negate this fact. But no acts are salutary unless we are in the state of grace, so the state of grace is the key requirement. And we ordinarily enter the state of grace through Baptism.

Exactly. You said it better than me.

 

[Vico]

… But no Catholic is ever required, as a condition of his salvation, to perform any good work.

The ONLY thing that can remove us from our state of Baptismal Grace is mortal sin… If we are not saved, works will not restore it. Works have no place in the Catholic economy of salvation.

• You wrote: “You assume that a person WILL commit, not just sin, but mortal sin, after the age of reason.”
  A. Not sure how you derived that since I posted “If no sinful thought or act or omission occurs after baptism, then there is salvation”. (I did mean mortal, however I did not say that explicitly.)

Since there are two senses of salvation at different moments there is more than one answer. So by baptism alone without later mortal sin. And with additional works, through actual graces, if there was mortal sin after baptism:
*
Council of Trent, Session 6: can. 9*“If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema”
Homily of St. Pope John Paul II (1993): God repeatedly called sinful man to works of conversion and repentance, just as through Isaiah, who speaks to us in today’s liturgy: “Break unjust fetters… share your bread with the hungry, and shelter the homeless poor; …clothe the man you see naked, and do not turn from your own kin” (Is. 58: 6-7).

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/homilies/1993/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_19930209_soroti_en.html