Are we slaves?

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Bahman

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This problem was bothering me for a while. Here there is the argument: Our decisions are the result of the situations we are imposed to and our personalities. The situation define options which we have no control on it. Our personalities are partly the result of what we inherited and how our lives experiences shape our personalities which we have no control on them too. This means that we have no control on our decisions hence free will is an illusion, in another word we are slave.

Your thought?
 
Yes, we are slaves to sin; serious sin that robs us of God’s grace. This world encourages us to sin, and we think we have found happiness when we sin, but we become slaves unwittingly. We live in a “valley of tears.”
 
Bahman said:
This problem was bothering me for a while. Here there is the argument: Our decisions are the result of the situations we are imposed to and our personalities. The situation define options which we have no control on it. Our personalities are partly the result of what we inherited and how our lives experiences shape our personalities which we have no control on them too. This means that we have no control on our decisions hence free will is an illusion, in another word we are slave.

Your thought?
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The last sentence your conclusion] doesn’t follow from the earlier statements in the paragraph.
 
We are slaves in the sense that there is so much that is imposed on us. Things that are out of our control.
But I do believe in the gift of free will.If you don’t like your job, sure quit; but if you have to live with the consequences of doing so. So many people I speak to want to change things in their lives but they are not ready for the consequences, myself included sometimes.
 
Bahman said:
This problem was bothering me for a while. Here there is the argument: Our decisions are the result of the situations we are imposed to and our personalities.
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This is a bare assertion that incorrectly assumes that humans are not moral free agents, who God has allowed the privilege of self-determination. That is, we are free to do good and avoid evil, …or not.

The rest is a faulty conclusion based on a false premise.
The situation define options which we have no control on it. Our personalities are partly the result of what we inherited and how our lives experiences shape our personalities which we have no control on them too. This means that we have no control on our decisions hence free will is an illusion, in another word we are slave.
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Your thought?
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How are free will and slavery related. It seems to me you can have both, one of either, or neither.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Yes, we are slaves to sin; serious sin that robs us of God’s grace.
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Only if a Christian commits mortal sin…for Christ has set us free!

We are no longer slaves but Children of God…sons in the Son.
 
While personal freedom is vastly overestimated, it is not zero. So no.
 
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1731.htm
 
Everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Freedom from sin means the ability to choose the good.
 
If the situation and our personality dictate our movement, there is no need of decision. The movement will happen without thinking or choosing.

If you hit a ball with another ball, the first one starts rolling, no need to decide whether it wants to move or will remain stationery.

The ball you throw is the situation; the mass of the first ball is the personality of that ball.

Don’t decide anything for a while, no need if it is in the personality and situation. You will start doing things without any decision or thought.

(this actually happens with people who only follow appetites
  • see it / consume it; see that / consume that
  • no decisions needed. There is only consumption of the situation’s object.
 
Personality and situation rather determine the set of options one may choose from…its not unusual for somebody to think “he has no other choice…”
 
ColdComfort said:
The last sentence your conclusion] doesn’t follow from the earlier statements in the paragraph.
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It does follow. It is in fact very simple. Our decisions are based on the situation and type of person we are which we have not control on them hence we have no free will.
 
sticknstring73 said:
We are slaves in the sense that there is so much that is imposed on us. Things that are out of our control.
But I do believe in the gift of free will.If you don’t like your job, sure quit; but if you have to live with the consequences of doing so. So many people I speak to want to change things in their lives but they are not ready for the consequences, myself included sometimes.
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We chose things based on our like or dislike and reason which they are all imposed on us. Am I missing something?
 
davidv said:
This is a bare assertion that incorrectly assumes that humans are not moral free agents, who God has allowed the privilege of self-determination. That is, we are free to do good and avoid evil, …or not.
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Can you prove that we are free agent? I can prove the opposite: our decisions are based on like or dislike and reason hence we are not free. Am I missing something? Moral free agent is a false conception. How we could be moral and be free agent at the same time?
davidv said:
The rest is a faulty conclusion based on a false premise.
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So the premise is not false.
 
Bookcat said:
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1731.htm
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I have never seen such a contradictory definition! Lets take the first part for example: “Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will”. How you could be free if your decision is based on reason?
 
John_Martin said:
If the situation and our personality dictate our movement, there is no need of decision. The movement will happen without thinking or choosing…
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You cannot possibly do thing without decision. You personality defines the type of decision you make.
 
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