Are we that out of touch?

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John, I appreciate your faith journey. I’m simply trying to point out to all that the faith journeys of our generation were vastly different.
I understand that brother, and certainly have no problem with your calling. I do feel very saddened though that there are so many here who feel that there is only “one right way” and one right journey…their way of course…and that anyone who prays differently than them is a liberal modernist heretic.

Just as your soul would wither at your geographic parish, the scars from my past would make mine wither just from the memories by stepping into another TLM. I could probably overcome it given enough time, or therapy, but I am so happy in my parish that I can’t think of a reason why I would even want to consider it.

I certainly don’t begrudge the longing for the TLM to anyone else though, any more than I would begrudge you your local cuisine (on which I would also likely take a pass). 😉 We like what we like and I just have to believe that God is pleased with the smallest of steps we take toward Him in our frail human state.

Peace to you,
 
I date back to 1953. I remember the day that we got to speak in church for the first time (our parish never experienced a dialog Mass before Vat. II). I was 12 as I recall, in grade 6 and we had been prepared for the occasion by the Sister who taught grade 7. I still remember the little yellow folders with all the responses.

It was an exciting time for us and I embraced it completely. I can’t recall who the pastor was at the time – whether it was Fr. X, who’d replaced the pastor we’d had for over 30 years, or Fr. Y who was sent to replace Fr. X who asked to be replaced when parishioners complained about him. (Oh, I recall the lashing out he did at Mass the Sunday he announced his departure and how one woman walked out in tears although he hadn’t named any names).

High school brought folk Masses in the gym on special occasions like winter carnival. We still had catechism in school although we weren’t technically a ‘Catholic school’ anymore.

Unlike many of my peers I didn’t abandon Church when I left home. Even when I took a weekend job babysitting, my Methodist/Hindu employers made sure that I could attend Mass each Sunday.

I didn’t realize that I missed the ‘old ways’ until 1978 when I happened to go to Mass at Basilique Notre Dame while on holidays in Montreal. It was Gregorian Chant and Latin (though most likely the OF, I can’t honestly remember) and I was HOME.

About 10 years ago I started discovering the various Church documents, when I took a volunteer job at the parish, one that kept me idle most of the time. Being a voracious reader, I devoured Vat. II documents and Liturgy documents and even though I’d been on liturgy committees before, I discovered the GIRM for the first time. What an eye opener!

There is no possibility of an EF Mass for me, I’m not aware of any being celebrated anywhere in the 3 dioceses in my province; even if there were, it would be too far away and too expensive to go. At this point in my life, I’d be happy with an OF Mass without abuses: changes in the text of the Ordinary; Fr. giving the EMHCs and altar servers the Body of Christ before he consumes and everyone consuming at the same time; etc.
 
I date back to 1953. I remember the day that we got to speak in church for the first time (our parish never experienced a dialog Mass before Vat. II). I was 12 as I recall, in grade 6 and we had been prepared for the occasion by the Sister who taught grade 7. I still remember the little yellow folders with all the responses.

It was an exciting time for us and I embraced it completely. I can’t recall who the pastor was at the time – whether it was Fr. X, who’d replaced the pastor we’d had for over 30 years, or Fr. Y who was sent to replace Fr. X who asked to be replaced when parishioners complained about him. (Oh, I recall the lashing out he did at Mass the Sunday he announced his departure and how one woman walked out in tears although he hadn’t named any names).

High school brought folk Masses in the gym on special occasions like winter carnival. We still had catechism in school although we weren’t technically a ‘Catholic school’ anymore.

Unlike many of my peers I didn’t abandon Church when I left home. Even when I took a weekend job babysitting, my Methodist/Hindu employers made sure that I could attend Mass each Sunday.

I didn’t realize that I missed the ‘old ways’ until 1978 when I happened to go to Mass at Basilique Notre Dame while on holidays in Montreal. It was Gregorian Chant and Latin (though most likely the OF, I can’t honestly remember) and I was HOME.

About 10 years ago I started discovering the various Church documents, when I took a volunteer job at the parish, one that kept me idle most of the time. Being a voracious reader, I devoured Vat. II documents and Liturgy documents and even though I’d been on liturgy committees before, I discovered the GIRM for the first time. What an eye opener!

There is no possibility of an EF Mass for me, I’m not aware of any being celebrated anywhere in the 3 dioceses in my province; even if there were, it would be too far away and too expensive to go. At this point in my life, I’d be happy with an OF Mass without abuses: changes in the text of the Ordinary; no genuflections for the priest during Mass; Fr. giving the EMHCs and altar servers the Body of Christ before he consumes and everyone consuming at the same time; etc.
 
dialog mass? sorry i have been going to church for awhile now and i have never been to a mass where you have a dialog with the priest. if you mean the prayers for the intentions thats hardly a dialog. and what great evil did vat II do? i think it made the church more modern. you really want to have all the prayers in a language no one has spoken for thousands of years?
 
also if you really want to have it a language Jesus spoke we should have the mass in aeramic not latin. Jesus never spoke latin the only reason we had it was because it was the world language at the time.
 
dialog mass? sorry i have been going to church for awhile now and i have never been to a mass where you have a dialog with the priest. if you mean the prayers for the intentions thats hardly a dialog. and what great evil did vat II do? i think it made the church more modern. you really want to have all the prayers in a language no one has spoken for thousands of years?
A dialog Mass is what we have now: the priest says something, we respond. Before Vat. II my only experience was a silent assembly with the altar servers giving all of the responses. I know that in other places the assembly gave the responses but in the parishes in my diocese it was only the altar servers.
 
also if you really want to have it a language Jesus spoke we should have the mass in aeramic not latin. Jesus never spoke latin the only reason we had it was because it was the world language at the time.
I don’t see where anyone mentioned anything about the language spoken by Jesus. Latin is good precisely because it’s a dead language. Words mean the same thing today that they did yesterday. The same cannot be said about English or most of the other modern languages.
 
I don’t see where anyone mentioned anything about the language spoken by Jesus. Latin is good precisely because it’s a dead language. Words mean the same thing today that they did yesterday. The same cannot be said about English or most of the other modern languages.
Aramaic became the common tongue of the Jewish people during the Babylonian captivity, but Hebrew was always their sacred language, used for ritual and worship.
 
I’m just a tad young to have experienced TLM traditions but I’d welcome it back and learn it with open arms. I watch it on EWTN’s daily mass and I think it is way more spiritual. I actually go to two chuches now. My main parish simply because its close to home but I travel to another church for mass and confession because its way more of a spiritual atmosphere. I think if our selfish culture would stop using the sanctuary as a social meeting place even during mass :mad: our services would be more spiritual. I witness open talking during services all the time plus not to mention winking nodding and waving to friends all the time, I’ve even seen the previous priest at my parish do these things. When the rosary is being said before Sunday mass I always hear conversations and talking going on. It makes me sick. I personally sometimes get more out of going to a daily mass than a Sunday mass because the Daily mass goers are there for the mass and not to socialize.
 
I never knew anything other than the dialogue Mass (Missa Cantata) on Sunday unless it was the 6am Low Mass. The parish recited or chanted the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Preface-Canon, Sanctus, Pater Noster, and Agnus Dei. Pretty much everything we do as a congregation today in the OF.
 
Well I am not technically a cradle Catholic since my family converted when I was about 6, so I guess I might be a “youth bed” Catholic. It was right around the time of Vatican II. I remember the TLM and I loved it but things changed overnight. So mostly I grew up with the NO. I was away from The Church for a while during young adulthood. I just got in a couple of years of the Baltimore catechism before everything turned all “how do you feel” in religion class.
I went to guitar masses and it was ok I guess but I really felt wrong about the whole hand holding, “the Mass is for us” mentality. The Mass is for worshipping God, not getting caught up with gossip before Mass (some places I have been the noise before Mass is deafening-I put that down to either the removal of the tabernacle so people aren’t reminded of Jesus’ presence or people never having been taught that Jesus is truly present there to begin with) and being chummy during the Mass. At my geographic parish Father actually comes down off the altar to shake hands with people in the pews during the sign of peace-course he also uses glass chalices. For every little thing done wrong it makes easier to slip in bigger things—like the story of the frog. If you put a frog directly in hot water it will jump out, but if you put it in tepid water and gradually turn up the heat it will stay there because it is adjusting itself to the gradual change in temperature, until it boils–at least that’s the story.
So when I found a FSSP parish I couldn’t wait to go. It’s quiet and reverant and you can say a rosary before Mass. The focus is totally on God, not on us. The place for “us” time is the parish hall in my humble opinion. When you are in God’s house the focus should be on God. Until I started going to the FSSP parish I almost never heard a sermon on sin-I mean direct sin. It was usually “feel good about yourself”. I really do get that God loves me but I also need to know how to please Him. I want to learn to avoid anything that takes away from our relationship. I think there is to much emphasis on how “ok” we are and not enough on how we can be better-hence the lines out the door for Communion and a very short line for Confession. Maybe it’s just me but wow-is anyone teaching people about the sacrilige of receiving Jesus unworthily.
Ok, there’s my two cents worth. God bless.
 
Well I am not technically a cradle Catholic since my family converted when I was about 6, so I guess I might be a “youth bed” Catholic. It was right around the time of Vatican II. I remember the TLM and I loved it but things changed overnight. So mostly I grew up with the NO. I was away from The Church for a while during young adulthood. I just got in a couple of years of the Baltimore catechism before everything turned all “how do you feel” in religion class.
I went to guitar masses and it was ok I guess but I really felt wrong about the whole hand holding, “the Mass is for us” mentality. The Mass is for worshipping God, not getting caught up with gossip before Mass (some places I have been the noise before Mass is deafening-I put that down to either the removal of the tabernacle so people aren’t reminded of Jesus’ presence or people never having been taught that Jesus is truly present there to begin with) and being chummy during the Mass. At my geographic parish Father actually comes down off the altar to shake hands with people in the pews during the sign of peace-course he also uses glass chalices. For every little thing done wrong it makes easier to slip in bigger things—like the story of the frog. If you put a frog directly in hot water it will jump out, but if you put it in tepid water and gradually turn up the heat it will stay there because it is adjusting itself to the gradual change in temperature, until it boils–at least that’s the story.
So when I found a FSSP parish I couldn’t wait to go. It’s quiet and reverant and you can say a rosary before Mass. The focus is totally on God, not on us. The place for “us” time is the parish hall in my humble opinion. When you are in God’s house the focus should be on God. Until I started going to the FSSP parish I almost never heard a sermon on sin-I mean direct sin. It was usually “feel good about yourself”. I really do get that God loves me but I also need to know how to please Him. I want to learn to avoid anything that takes away from our relationship. I think there is to much emphasis on how “ok” we are and not enough on how we can be better-hence the lines out the door for Communion and a very short line for Confession. Maybe it’s just me but wow-is anyone teaching people about the sacrilige of receiving Jesus unworthily.
Ok, there’s my two cents worth. God bless.
I couldn’t have said it better. 👍
 
Indeed, tecvba, indeed. People can pray before Mass or examine their conscience in quiet before going to confession at my cathedral parish. Can’t do that at my local geographic parish. Our socialization is limited to coffee and donuts in the parish hall after Mass.

Socialization starts at my geographic parish before Mass; just after Mass starts “Reach out and introduce yourself to your neighbors”; and during the Sign of Peace (which goes on for an easy five minutes) in which everyone has a really nice time meeting and greeting and father makes the rounds down the main aisle to the back…all the while forgetting just Who is there present at the altar. It is not about us it is about Him.

I do not receive the Eucharist unworthily. My conscience was formed before Vatican II and I do have to guard against scrupulosity but my intent is never to receive Our Lord unworthily and no it is not being taught nor is frequent use of confession being encouraged. If I am not in a state of grace, I do not go to Communion.

When I was a teenager, there was a downtown church which had confessions all day long. Multiple confessors. Now, I can go to a local parish which has confessions on Wednesdays before the 6pm Mass if the priest shows. Far too many Wednesdays I’ve stood there in line with others and the priest did not show.

Proverbs 22: 6 says:

Train a boy in the way he should go; even when he is old, he will not swerve from it.
Here I sit at 57. My conscience was formed by the priests, brothers, and sisters who taught me. I am nothing special. I am aware of several people who are my age on these forums and we are not doing anything special. We are simply doing what we were taught. I make no apologies. I believe Our Lord is present in the Eucharist, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. A consecrated host is the most precious object on the face of the Earth. I do not receive the Eucharist unworthily because I was taught to recieve the Eucharist unworthily is to drawn down condemnation on my head.

(I accompanied a Greek classmate to the Eastern Orthodox Easter Vigil Liturgy and did not know that the Orthodox have blessed bread but not consecrated bread so that all believers might receive. I was not in a state of grace and she insisted that I go up. I was completely and thoroughly panicked. This was in 1976. And, yes, I agonized and ,yes, I went to confession only to find that father was aware of Orthodox practices).

So, here I am forty + years later and I am still living the life I learned over 50 years ago. No, I do not go to our indult parish. I attend a parish which had less than 250 members in 1983. I know. Our envelopes are labled 203. It is a downtown cathedral parish and there aren’t that many people living downtown. It has grown and grown over the last 25 years because it offers a continuation of that which so many of us learned before Vatican II. The NO and the TLM are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible to have a reverent NO which meets every criteria that I grew up with.

I watch EWTN on occasion and two young priests from Peru conducted a NO Mass in Latin and English and it was simply sublime. I’ve also watched several of EWTN’s Solemn High Masses. I simply want reverence. That’s all. Reverence. It is not about us as community. It is about Him.

I was a history and anthropology major. The past calls to me. We can go on and on about what went on in the early church. I am of English, Irish, Scot, Breton, French, and German ancestry. None of my ancestors spoke Latin - of that I am quite certain. But I do know that any of my ancestors could have participated at Mass at any other of my ancestor’s church. The baby got thrown out with the bathwater after Vatican II. We abandoned our profound Catholic heritage. The Holy Father is trying to reclaim that heritage. I have never stopped living it.
 
also if you really want to have it a language Jesus spoke we should have the mass in aeramic not latin. **Jesus never spoke latin **the only reason we had it was because it was the world language at the time.
I am amazed. An eyewitness to the life of Christ!!:extrahappy:

Just think of all the questions that could be answered by our friend bostonboy:thumbsup:

Seriously though.

I somehow doubt that bostoboy was an eyewitness to the life and times of Jesus and I hardly think that he is an authority on the languages that Jesus spoke or did not speak. The three languages that were predominately spoken in the area in those days would have been Aramaic Greek and Latin. The readings in the Temple would have been written in Hebrew. It is entirely possible that Jesus spoke or had a knowledge of all four of them. Scripture doesn’t tell us and we really don’t know.
.
So I think that short of an eyewitness account, sorry bostonboy,but that isn’t you:tsktsk:, we really should not be making claims about which languages Jesus did or did not speak.
 
Indeed, tecvba, indeed. People can pray before Mass or examine their conscience in quiet before going to confession at my cathedral parish. Can’t do that at my local geographic parish. Our socialization is limited to coffee and donuts in the parish hall after Mass.

Socialization starts at my geographic parish before Mass; just after Mass starts “Reach out and introduce yourself to your neighbors”; and during the Sign of Peace (which goes on for an easy five minutes) in which everyone has a really nice time meeting and greeting and father makes the rounds down the main aisle to the back…all the while forgetting just Who is there present at the altar. It is not about us it is about Him.

I do not receive the Eucharist unworthily. My conscience was formed before Vatican II and I do have to guard against scrupulosity but my intent is never to receive Our Lord unworthily and no it is not being taught nor is frequent use of confession being encouraged. If I am not in a state of grace, I do not go to Communion.

When I was a teenager, there was a downtown church which had confessions all day long. Multiple confessors. Now, I can go to a local parish which has confessions on Wednesdays before the 6pm Mass if the priest shows. Far too many Wednesdays I’ve stood there in line with others and the priest did not show.

Proverbs 22: 6 says:

Train a boy in the way he should go; even when he is old, he will not swerve from it.

Here I sit at 57. My conscience was formed by the priests, brothers, and sisters who taught me. I am nothing special. I am aware of several people who are my age on these forums and we are not doing anything special. We are simply doing what we were taught. I make no apologies. I believe Our Lord is present in the Eucharist, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. A consecrated host is the most precious object on the face of the Earth. I do not receive the Eucharist unworthily because I was taught to recieve the Eucharist unworthily is to draw down condemnation on my head.

(I accompanied a Greek classmate to the Eastern Orthodox Easter Vigil Liturgy and did not know that the Orthodox have blessed bread but not consecrated bread so that all believers might receive. I was not in a state of grace and she insisted that I go up. I was completely and thoroughly panicked. This was in 1976. And, yes, I agonized and ,yes, I went to confession only to find that father was aware of Orthodox practices).

So, here I am forty + years later and I am still living the life I learned over 50 years ago. No, I do not go to our indult parish. I attend a parish which had less than 250 members in 1983. I know. Our envelopes are labled 203. It is a downtown cathedral parish and there aren’t that many people living downtown. It has grown and grown over the last 25 years because it offers a continuation of that which so many of us learned before Vatican II. The NO and the TLM are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible to have a reverent NO which meets every criteria that I grew up with.

I watch EWTN on occasion and two young priests from Peru conducted a NO Mass in Latin and English and it was simply sublime. I’ve also watched several of EWTN’s Solemn High Masses. I simply want reverence. That’s all. Reverence. It is not about us as community. It is about Him.

I was a history and anthropology major. The past calls to me. We can go on and on about what went on in the early church. I am of English, Irish, Scot, Breton, French, and German ancestry. None of my ancestors spoke Latin - of that I am quite certain. But I do know that any of my ancestors could have participated at Mass at any other of my ancestor’s church. The baby got thrown out with the bathwater after Vatican II. We abandoned our profound Catholic heritage. The Holy Father is trying to reclaim that heritage. I have never stopped living it.
 
Where y’at, Palmas? I know that if I said to you I’m going to Jesuit’s for confession, you’ld know. Got my 40th reunion in two weeks. It has me thinking hard.
 
I never knew anything other than the dialogue Mass (Missa Cantata) on Sunday unless it was the 6am Low Mass. The parish recited or chanted the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Preface-Canon, Sanctus, Pater Noster, and Agnus Dei. Pretty much everything we do as a congregation today in the OF.
Lucky you!

We had either the choir or the altar servers, never the community, responding. At daily Mass I remember envying one of my older classmates as she chanted all the responses since there was usually no choir.
 
JohnPaul, the Daily Mass on EWTN is not the TLM Mass; it is the Pauline (NO) Mass done beautifully.:angel1:

I never miss that Mass even on Sunday Morning and other days when I will be attending Mass at my own church.:harp:

:blessyou:
 
I’m guess I’m just tired of being treated like a dinosaur who is totally out of touch with reality. I shouldn’t be told how I should feel. I lived through it. I experienced it. Hear the words of those of us who lived through it and experienced it. Please.
Well, my dad is not a member here so I’ll speak for him since we just recently had this discussion.

He was born in 1947, I was born in 1964. He went to Catholic school his entire life and was an altar boy the majority of the time. He loved the Mass, and clearly remembers coming out of Mass with my grandfather after his first NO experience. He cried, and asked him “what are they doing to our Mass? what are they doing to our Faith?” My grandfather gently told him that the Church must know better and that he need to respect the changes. And so he did.

But just this past weekend he told me that he thinks the Mass should be said in Latin, that we should be receiving Jesus on our tongues while kneeling, that the sign of peace has gotten totally out of hand, that women should cover their heads to show respect for Christ. He LOVED the way it was before Vatican II. He KNEW what he was praying at the foot of the altar in Latin. He felt totally left behind by the changes, and as a result did not attend Mass for decades. Thanks be to God that he recently had a wonderful re-version, and is now one of the most faithful Catholics I know.

You are not out of touch, the rest of the world just refuses to accept that there are those who actually did know it, love it, and live it. And were perfectly happy that way.

~Liza
 
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