Are we to avoid worldly pleasures to better please God?

[Robert_Sock]

O Jesus, Thou hast set me apart from the world; what, then, shall I seek therein? Thou hast created me for Heaven; what, then, have I to do with the world? Depart from me, deceitful world, with thy vanities! Henceforth I will follow the Way of the Cross traced out for me by my Redeemer, and journey onward to my heavenly home, there to dwell forever and ever.
-Saint Francis of Assisi

This type of thinking may not be for everybody, but I treasure it and try to put it into practice as much as I can. It takes a certain state of mind to appreciate.

The Way of the Cross by St Francis is profound and traditional, and not the watered-down Catholicism that many practice today.

Again, it’s not for everyone.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Let modest love prompt you to lift up your heart to God. Seek only God. Think of nothing else other than God. Keep your mind free of other thoughts. Give no attention to the things of this world.
-The Cloud of Unknowing

Meaning, the disordered things of this world not designed by God.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

O Jesus, Thou hast set me apart from the world; what, then, shall I seek therein? Thou hast created me for Heaven; what, then, have I to do with the world? Depart from me, deceitful world, with thy vanities! Henceforth I will follow the Way of the Cross traced out for me by my Redeemer, and journey onward to my heavenly home, there to dwell forever and ever.
-Saint Francis of Assisi

This type of thinking may not be for everybody, but I treasure it and try to put it into practice as much as I can. It takes a certain state of mind to appreciate.

The Way of the Cross by St Francis is profound and traditional, and not the watered-down Catholicism that many practice today.

Again, it’s not for everyone.

But you’re misunderstanding St Francis from what you’ve posted previously.

St Francis had a great affection for nature and saw God in everyone and everything.

Its seeing God in all, he was able to love all.

I’m just finishing “Francis: The Journey and the Dream,” by Fr Murray Bodo, for the second time.

It contradicts everything your expressing with regards to “worldly things.”

Jim

 

[DBT]

But you’re misunderstanding …

Robert -
That’s it in a nutshell.

The “world” is not bad and “pleasures” are not evil. To “deny all” in the manner you’re describing is not to embark upon some higher spiritual path … but to practice distortion of the truth. You’re a very good-hearted soul, Robert, and the people posting here care about you a lot. I know that by the great lengths they go to help you with your understanding of what the Church actually teaches about asceticism and what the Saints are actually saying in the quotes you provide.

Many, many times posters have used words like "disordered, “attachment,” “inordinate” and the like. To the best of my knowledge, you have not tried to engage the meaning of those terms. Rather, you skip right over them and revert to your default position.

I would simply ask you to go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read the many good posts that were made in response to your initial question. Perhaps do it in the manner of lectio and prayerfully meditate on the meaning of the terms people are using to provide the proper understanding of mortification and self-denial.

I think it will help a a lot.

Many blessings to you,
Dave

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert -
That’s it in a nutshell.

The “world” is not bad and “pleasures” are not evil. To “deny all” in the manner you’re describing is not to embark upon some higher spiritual path … but to practice distortion of the truth. You’re a very good-hearted soul, Robert, and the people posting here care about you a lot. I know that by the great lengths they go to help you with your understanding of what the Church actually teaches about asceticism and what the Saints are actually saying in the quotes you provide.

Many, many times posters have used words like "disordered, “attachment,” “inordinate” and the like. To the best of my knowledge, you have not tried to engage the meaning of those terms. Rather, you skip right over them and revert to your default position.

I would simply ask you to go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read the many good posts that were made in response to your initial question. Perhaps do it in the manner of lectio and prayerfully meditate on the meaning of the terms people are using to provide the proper understanding of mortification and self-denial.

I think it will help a a lot.

Many blessings to you,
Dave

I would suggest you do the same because you’re the second person accusing me of saying all pleasures are “evil,” which I never said. All I’m trying to say is that detaching oneself from worldly pleasures can lead to a heightened spirituality.

 

[DBT]

I would suggest you do the same

Well I did what you asked. Your turn.

All I’m trying to say is that detaching oneself from worldly pleasures can lead to a heightened spirituality.

If that’s all you were saying this wouldn’t be a thread pushing 90 posts. What’s at issue is your understanding of “the world,” “pleasure” and what it means to “detach.” You started this thread and asked for (name removed by moderator)ut. And many people have done just that … given (name removed by moderator)ut with a spirit of charity and helpfulness. The answer to your question can be found throughout this thread.

Dave

 

[Robert_Sock]

Well I did what you asked. Your turn.

If that’s all you were saying this wouldn’t be a thread pushing 90 posts. What’s at issue is your understanding of “the world,” “pleasure” and what it means to “detach.” You started this thread and asked for (name removed by moderator)ut. And many people have done just that … given (name removed by moderator)ut with a spirit of charity and helpfulness. The answer to your question can be found throughout this thread.

Dave

I’ll let the Hold Spirit guide me.

 

[DBT]

I’ll let the Hold Spirit guide me.

Fair enough. But how do you know who’s voice you’re hearing? That your not just baptizing your own opinion? I know you’re quite fond of St. John of the Cross … he has much to say on that subject.

Sometimes the voice of the Holy Spirit comes through others … maybe even posters in your thread. Please give their comments due consideration.

Peace,
Dave

 

[Bookcat]

Let modest love prompt you to lift up your heart to God. Seek only God. Think of nothing else other than God. Keep your mind free of other thoughts. Give no attention to the things of this world.
-The Cloud of Unknowing

The author there is discussing how to act “*during *a particular approach to particular kind of prayer” that he is discussing in that particular text (a text from the middle ages that must be understood carefully and as a whole and in context as well as in its place in the history of spirituality).

 

[Bookcat]

I’ll let the Hold Spirit guide me.

Yes let us let the Holy Spirit guide us all. Amen!

And you and I and all the readers ought to always all keep in mind this great text from Fr. Jacques Philippe when looking at what we think the Holy Spirit might be suggesting:

“A divine inspiration cannot ask us to do something that contradicts what the Word of God teaches and asks of us. This means not the Word of God as compiled by each individual’s fantasy and interpretation, but Holy Scripture as transmitted and explained by the teaching authority of the Church. For example, a divine inspiration cannot ask me to commit acts that the Church considers immoral. In the same way, true inspirations always go in the direction of a spirit of obedience to the Church.”

• In the School of the Holy Spirit, p.47

I note this for persons can often get carried way off the right path and this text can be helpful for us all in our discernment in the various ways we think the Holy Spirit may be leading us. Splendid words of wisdom.

 

[Bookcat]

Another great quote from Fr. Jacques Phillippe:

“To allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit of God, we need great compliance and adaptability, and we can acquire these little by little by practicing detachment. We should make an effort not to “hang on to” anything, either materially, or affectively, or even spiritually. The detachment we should aim for is not that of saying “to hell with all of it,” or of becoming indifferent to everything, or of practicing a sort of forced asceticism and stripping ourselves of everything that makes up our lives; that kind of detachment is not what our Lord normally asks for. But we need to keep our hearts in an attitude of detachment, maintaining a sort of freedom, a distance, an inner reserve, that will mean that if some particular thing, or habit, or relationship, or personal plan is taken from us, we don’t make a drama out of being deprived of it. Such detachment should be exercised in all aspects of our lives.”

• In the School of the Holy Spirit, p.35

frjacquesphilippe.com/theme/detachment

 

[DBT]

that if some particular thing, or habit, or relationship, or personal plan is taken from us, we don’t make a drama out of being deprived of it. Such detachment should be exercised in all aspects of our lives."

• In the School of the Holy Spirit, p.35

frjacquesphilippe.com/theme/detachment

Both quotes were wonderful … but this passage in particular really spoke to me. Thank you!

Dave