Are we to avoid worldly pleasures to better please God?

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One is given many opportunities to work on discipline and sacrifice every day. They may not seem like much to you but people do them without even thinking about the sacrifice they are making or bring attention to it. IOW they don’t stand on a street corner wearing sackcloth and ashes.

Posts in other threads suggest you think people should sacrifice by not having sex with their spouse or avoid laughing in order to reach a more elevated level of spirituality. Regarding the former, that is rich coming from a single man. Regarding the later, I disagree; having experienced the gift of laughter and knowing that laughing is good for my mental health my experience tells me you are wrong.
👍

It is one thing to give something up or to avoid something because to we want to please God. It is another to not have something, then claim you are giving it up to please God. And then to try to encourage others, who actually have the something, to give it up too.

With the second, I can give up smoking for Lent. I don’t smoke, by not smoking during Lent, I would be moving closer to God, right?
 
We will do our Purgatory either here in this world or in the Hereafter. This tread was intended to urge people to seek the former.
 
Robert-

Also note that “worldly pleasures” can mean “sinful pleasures” in which case one is yes to avoid all such pleasures.

Or it can be an older way of saying the various goods of this earth - of a secular nature. One is to be detached and use such with moderation -but it is not about not having any pleasures or joys in regards to such. In fact St. Thomas warned that we need such as I recall.
 
Catechism:

III. POVERTY OF HEART

2544 Jesus enjoins his disciples to prefer him to everything and everyone, and bids them “renounce all that [they have]” for his sake and that of the Gospel.335 Shortly before his passion he gave them the example of the poor widow of Jerusalem who, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.336 The precept of detachment from riches is obligatory for entrance into the Kingdom of heaven.

2545 All Christ’s faithful are to "direct their affections rightly, lest they be hindered in their pursuit of perfect charity by the use of worldly things and by an adherence to riches which is contrary to the spirit of evangelical poverty."337

IV. “I WANT TO SEE GOD”

2548 Desire for true happiness frees man from his immoderate attachment to the goods of this world so that he can find his fulfillment in the vision and beatitude of God. "The promise [of seeing God] surpasses all beatitude. . . . In Scripture, to see is to possess. . . . Whoever sees God has obtained all the goods of which he can conceive."344

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a0.htm to see full context
 
Sacred Scripture: First Letter of Saint Paul to Timothy (4-5)

“For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving; for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.”

ewtn.com/ewtn/bible/search_bible.asp
 
Sacred Scripture: First Letter of Saint Paul to Timothy (4-5)

“For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving; for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.”

ewtn.com/ewtn/bible/search_bible.asp
Again, it all depends on the path we are on. To say that everyone should seek non-sinful pleasure or that everyone become ascetic are absurd given the world we live in. Personally, I feel quite sure that God wants me to be more ascetic, thus many of my posts lean toward asceticism in hope that help others who are on the same path.
 
Again, it all depends on the path we are on. To say that everyone should seek non-sinful pleasure or that everyone become ascetic are absurd given the world we live in. Personally, I feel quite sure that God wants me to be more ascetic, thus many of my posts lean toward asceticism in hope that help others who are on the same path.
Robert, I hope you understand that taking on a more ascetic path in the world is a very difficult thing to do. To do so apart from the advice of a sound spiritual director is foolish at best and soul-destroying at worst. Moreover, there is a reason that Mother Church has blessed the foundation of monasteries, religious orders, and third orders. These are here so the faithful who believe they have been given the grace to live a deeper life of self-denial can remove themselves more from a world that is not very conducive to it, can have a rule that gives them the path, eliminating any guesswork on their part, and can have a sense of fraternity with others who are doing so.

You feel quite sure of these things, but what does an agent of the Church say? Do you have a spiritual director? Random strangers on the Internet, by the way, are not your collective spiritual director. What moreover would your response be, if he told you to stop seeking out extraordinary penances, and learn instead better to offer up all the sufferings and difficulties of your own daily life as penance? There is no foundation for the former without the latter. The one if done as a a substitute for the other can lead to very bad results. I’m reminded of Father Ferapont in Dostoyevsky’s The Brothers Karamasov, an ascetic monk often contrasted with the saintly Father Zossima. His pride was so great that he even interrupted Fr Zossima’s funeral to speak of the superiority of his asceticism. Perhaps that’s the greatest danger we face, that of pride in our own supposed spiritual prowess.

Do work this through with your director. We may have many different answers here, but none of us will have the answer you need.
 
Again, it all depends on the path we are on. To say that everyone should seek non-sinful pleasure or that everyone become ascetic are absurd given the world we live in. Personally, I feel quite sure that God wants me to be more ascetic, thus many of my posts lean toward asceticism in hope that help others who are on the same path.
Actually no. What Paul (and the Holy Spirit) wrote there is for everyone.

I am not saying that it cannot be good to give up various things. But one must recognize that all those created things are gifts from God.

I have only read basically your first post up above and hence my posts.

In any case one must keep in mind the realities spoken of both Scripture there and the Catechism.

And I note for all: One can actually be tempted towards an asceticism that is contrary to what God wills…either in ones approach or ideas or the manner it is carried out. Spiritual direction is very important in especially more intense attempts at such.
 
Actually no. What Paul (and the Holy Spirit) wrote there is for everyone.

I am not saying that it cannot be good to give up various things. But one must recognize that all those created things are gifts from God.

I have only read basically your first post up above and hence my posts.

In any case one must keep in mind the realities spoken of both Scripture there and the Catechism.

And I note for all: One can actually be tempted towards an asceticism that is contrary to what God wills…either in ones approach or ideas or the manner it is carried out. Spiritual direction is very important in especially more intense attempts at such.
Never did I say that one should avoid pleasure, but worldly pleasure. There is no comparison between worldly pleasure and spiritual pleasure. Once blessed with a taste of spiritual pleasure, not a glutton for spiritual rewards though, anybody in their right mind will seek the spiritual. Taste and you will see.
 
Never did I say that one should avoid pleasure, but worldly pleasure. There is no comparison between worldly pleasure and spiritual pleasure. Once blessed with a taste of spiritual pleasure, not a glutton for spiritual rewards though, anybody in their right mind will seek the spiritual. Taste and you will see.
The Church does not teach one must avoid worldly pleasure (in the sense of the good things of this world) but be detached and moderate…but yes we can with give up all sorts of good thing and of course we seek God above all.
 
We pray this Psalm often in the Liturgy of the Hours

Jim
“My sacrifice, O God, is a contrite spirit.” A truly contrite spirit is what I also seek, and I am doing this in part by denying myself much worldly pleasure. If what you’re doing leads you to a truly contrite spirit, then go for it; for me though, a contrite spirit is gained by my denying myself much worldly pleasure, with my eyes fixed on the Hereafter.

Be sure to watch The Way of The Cross, by Saint Francis of Assisi. I find it most conducive to Contemplative Prayer.

youtube.com/watch?v=oZ9om4YElns
 
+JMJ+
The Church does not teach one must avoid worldly pleasure (in the sense of the good things of this world) but be detached and moderate…but yes we can with give up all sorts of good thing and of course we seek God above all.
Yep! Indeed inordinate avoidance of all worldly pleasures is a sin and a heresy.
 
God is not pleased with sacrifice and life long penance? Can you provide a good source for that opinion.
The Son of Man came in eating and drinking and He was labeled a glutton and a drunkard. Even Jesus knew the value of good food and wine.

Catholics are not Puritans.
 
The Son of Man came in eating and drinking and He was labeled a glutton and a drunkard. Even Jesus knew the value of good food and wine.

Catholics are not Puritans.
“Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man loves the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.”
-1 John 2:15
 
“Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man loves the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.”
-1 John 2:15
Such must be understood as the Church understands it …such does NOT mean that one cannot love things in this world.

John uses “world” in various senses.

God so loved the world…
 
The Son of Man came in eating and drinking and He was labeled a glutton and a drunkard. Even Jesus knew the value of good food and wine.

Catholics are not Puritans.
Jesus made water into wine…

and

As one Catholic translation of the bible that I used when I was younger notes (from memory)

God gave men wine to gladden men’s hearts what is life without wine.

In other places it notes that one can abuse alcohol…
 
Catechism:

III. POVERTY OF HEART

2544 Jesus enjoins his disciples to prefer him to everything and everyone, and bids them “renounce all that [they have]” for his sake and that of the Gospel.335 Shortly before his passion he gave them the example of the poor widow of Jerusalem who, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.336 The precept of detachment from riches is obligatory for entrance into the Kingdom of heaven.

2545 All Christ’s faithful are to "direct their affections rightly, lest they be hindered in their pursuit of perfect charity by the use of worldly things and by an adherence to riches which is contrary to the spirit of evangelical poverty."337

IV. “I WANT TO SEE GOD”

2548 Desire for true happiness frees man from his immoderate attachment to the goods of this world so that he can find his fulfillment in the vision and beatitude of God. "The promise [of seeing God] surpasses all beatitude. . . . In Scripture, to see is to possess. . . . Whoever sees God has obtained all the goods of which he can conceive."344

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a0.htm to see full context
 
St. Francis de Sales (Doctor of the Church), Introduction to the Devout Life, Book 3, Chapter 31:
WE must needs occasionally relax the mind, and the body requires some recreation also. Cassian relates how S. John the Evangelist was found by a certain hunter amusing himself by caressing a partridge, which sat upon his wrist. The hunter asked how a man of his mental powers could find time for so trifling an occupation. In reply, S. John asked why he did not always carry his bow strung? The man answered, Because, if always bent, the bow would lose its spring when really wanted. “Do not marvel then,” the Apostle replied, “if I slacken my mental efforts from time to time, and recreate myself, in order to return more vigorously to contemplation.” It is a great mistake to be so strict as to grudge any recreation either to others or one’s self. Walking, harmless games, music, instrumental or vocal, field sports, etc., are such entirely lawful recreations that they need no rules beyond those of ordinary discretion, which keep every thing within due limits of time, place, and degree. So again games of skill, which exercise and strengthen body or mind, such as tennis, rackets, running at the ring, chess, and the like, are in themselves both lawful and good. Only one must avoid excess, either in the time given to them, or the amount of interest they absorb; for if too much time be given up to such things, they cease to be a recreation and become an occupation; and so far from resting and restoring mind or body, they have precisely the contrary effect. After five or six hours spent over chess, one’s mind is spent and weary, and too long a time given to tennis results in physical exhaustion; or if people play for a high stake, they get anxious and discomposed, and such unimportant objects are unworthy of so much care and thought. But, above all, beware of setting your heart upon any of these things, for however lawful an amusement may be, it is wrong to give one’s heart up to it. Not that I would not have you take pleasure in what you are doing,—it were no recreation else,—but I would not have you engrossed by it, or become eager or over fond of any of these things.
 
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