Are we too self-absorbed?

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Recently, Pope Francis was quoted as having said that the Church tends to obsess. He has spoken on this at different times. He spoke about an obsession with abortion, homosexuality, and contraception. But he has also spoken about a Church that is too focused on herself, what Americans would call navel gazing. The pope would not use such a term, because it does not exist in Spanish. We have to remember that this is a man who thinks in Spanish and speaks in Italian. I did not make this up. He said this of himself.

When he said this about the Church being obsessed with herself, he was not referring to her well-being. He was referring to being overly preoccupied by procedures and structures. I have the benefit of having lived in Latin America for many years and of speaking the Latin languages rather well. I think I understand what he’s trying to say, which does not always translate well into English, especially for Americans.

We know why these concepts do not translate well into English. English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language or a Latin language (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, French and Rumanian). But we have to understand why even with the best linguist on board, it will not translate well into “American”. The reason is simple. Americans are by our own tradition, navel gazers. The USA is a very self-preoccupied and self-absorbed society. As I used to tell my students when I was a professor, Americans believe that we’re all that and a bag of chips too. We refuse to acknowledge that anyone can be better than we are at anything, bigger than we are in anything, more democratic than we are, more anything else than we are. I remember being taught this nonsense when I was in elementary school. I believed it until I became a missionary. Then I found many things outside of the USA that are far better than some things that we have here. I also found some things could not compare. In other words, I found that the world is really made of human beings just like us.

But to the American Catholic, the idea that he may have been wrong about how he views the Church is anathema. Here is the problem. The American Catholic does not understand that what he sees is not the problem. What he sees in the Church may be very good. The problem is how he does the seeing. There seem to be two mindsets.

On the left you have a mindset that is especially negative. It tends to view the Church as being out of touch with reality. The reason that this is so, is because this person is looking for dust. In other words, he’s looking at how old things are. If it’s old, be it doctrine or ritual, then it must be replaced with something new, which is total nonsense as we know. But it’s very difficult to convince this person that he has to change his glasses and the angle at which he looks at the Church.

On the right, you have the exact same phenomenon, but with a twist. This is the Catholic who is obsessed with the word liberal. This gives him hives, as if he had touched Poison Ivy. He too needs a change of lenses and a new angle from which to contemplate the Church. He’s looking for anything that is younger than he is and rejecting it. He’s not even interested in whether it works or not. For that matter, he’s not interested in whether certain customs and traditions work either. He just wants to maintain them.

Both of these extremes belong to the group that he pope has identified as those who are looking inward, obsessed, overly self-preoccupied. You can figure it out. I don’t need a label to make this clear.

The question is how do those on the left and right get themselves out of this mode? The idea is not to jettison the old for the sake of the new, nor is it to hang on to the old and reject the new. The idea is to look at old and new and see how what works well together. For example, can we take a dogma, which is old and cannot be changed as we all know; but can we explain it and communicate it in a way that modern man understands it and sees how it’s important to his daily life, rather than simply give him a definition of the Immaculate Conception. The definition is nice, but unless you’re already a devout Catholic, it does not tell you anything about your sense of isolation, you fears, your pain or the meaning of life.

On the flip side, discussing the merits of women priests without and understanding of why we don’t’ have them in the first place, is a discussion in a vacuum. You can’t discuss changing something unless you understand what it is that you propose to change and why it came about in the first place. In this case, we find that as we discuss how a male priesthood came into existence and why it has been unchangeable, the how and the why answer the question of “should” we change this or “can” we change this.

I believe that these are the obsessions that the Holy Father is criticizing. One side is obsessed with changing and fixing what does not need to be changed or fixed, because it’s not broken, just misunderstood. The other side is obsessed with protecting it, but does nothing to help the general population understand its value in the marketplace. This is what the pope means when he says that we have to go out to the edge.

I have to be willing and able to sit down with a pro-choice person and explain the Incarnation in a way that it sheds light on human dignity and human rights, especially the right to be born. But I also have to be able to sit down with the most die hard Traditionalist and explain why he has to tone it down. Some things are never going to happen because we make it a law.

I can’t legislate love. Faith without love is dead. I have to stimulate love. To do this, I can’t be at odds with the person whose faith I’m trying to strengthen.

Are we too self-absorbed for our own good and the good of the Church?
 
At her trial, St. Joan of Arc said, “About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they are just one thing and we shouldn’t complicate the matter.”

Being focused on Christ and His Church. That is what we should be absorbed in and obsessed with. That is what Jesus told us. Put Him first (as St. Joan says this includes His Church), then everything will come after that.
 
Well said Brother. I am reading a book titled, Forming Intentional Disciples, and one of the most important things it says is that we have to Love those we are evangelizing. It is unfortunate that some, perhaps many Catholics, perhaps more here in the US, have the attitude of superiority. Look what will happen in a few weeks. Our churches will be filled with people who never come to church except for twice a year, weddings and funerals, and some priests will guilt them in a homily, some parishioners will bemoan the fact that “their seats” are filled with people who don’t belong there. People will think in their heads, “where are these people the rest of the year,” and “should they be going to communion?”

I think what the author of this book, and what the pope is saying, is that we have to welcome people and love them, not chastise them and hit them over the head with doctrines and dogmas, morality and rules. Yes, these things are important, but it is not where they are at the moment. They need to experience the Love of Christ and the only way they can at this point is through others.

I have give myself a challenge, and I admit it is a difficult one, to look at people, lapsed Catholics, A&P or C&E Catholics, difficult parents in my religious ed program, etc., as people who need to be introduced to the Love of Christ, and to truly look how I act toward them. Does what I say and do block their relationship with God, or help to bring them closer? Doctrines, dogmas, morality and rules can come later. We have to get them in the door first, and I don’t mean the door of the church, but the door of a relationship with Christ. Jesus is always knocking, but sometimes people might need a bit of help opening the door.
 
An excellent meditation from JReducation, as usual.

I personally don’t think most Catholics think much about their church at all, either “liberal” or “conservative.”

I think that in the United States, most Catholics and Protestants, including Evangelical Protestants, and including myself, are caught up in a whirlwind of secular responsibilities and obligations, leaving us with little time for spiritual activities like prayer, study, fellowship with other Christians, almsgiving (good works, helping the poor, etc.).

It’s almost like a 3rd world mindset in which “survival” is the main goal. We certainly don’t have to worry about “physical” survival here in the U.S. It’s more of a “personal” survival. We have so much to do!

Most of us have little choice except to work 8 or more hours a day, and if children are in private or parochial schools and/or college, we have to work even more hours to find the money to pay for their educations. Our preparation to go to work, along with our commutes to and from work, leave us with only a few hours a day of free time.

Just maintaining our lives here in the U.S.–meal prep, home maintenance (SNOW makes a mess that takes a lot of time to clear away), planning for retirement, taking care of our health, and of course, raising our families and building our marriages and other relationships–this is all a lot of work that leaves us with little time or energy to actually think about “church” and how we can best serve the Lord Jesus.

Most of us are happy in our small amount of spare time to just kick back and watch a little TV, or head to Starbucks for a coffee, or maybe just go to bed early and catch up on ssleep.

We try not to get over-involved in the community, but even a few involvements outside of work lead to a loss of “free time”. I am constantly driving here, driving there, sitting on this board or that board, and of course, playing piano. I LOVE all of these things, and I try to think of them as my “mission” in this world because I try to express the love of Jesus to all those that I work and play with.

At least as Catholics, we are only obligated to spend one hour a week at Mass. In the Evangelical Protestant world, there is no official “obligation” to attend church, but there is an even more gripping obligation–a “cultural” obligation to attend church events and activities unless there is an iron-clad excuse like chemotherapy. Evangelical Protestants tend to be at their church or involved in a church activity several days or evenings a week.

All of this activity and busy-ness takes away our time to develop our “inner lives” of prayer, silence, worship, and study.

So I would say that we are not “self-absorbed” as much as we are “survival-absorbed.” We commit, jump on the treadmill, and we can’t jump off. We just have to keep doing and doing, and somehow, we have to find a way to develop our inner lives while we are doing it all.

Oh, that reminds me. I haven’t had the time for any kind of exercise or physical workout for three weeks now. Must find time to squeeze that into my schedule so that I can live longer to do even more stuff!
 
We have to get them in the door first, and I don’t mean the door of the church, but the door of a relationship with Christ. Jesus is always knocking, but sometimes people might need a bit of help opening the door.
Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church, are One and the Same.
 
Something that appears problematic to me is that people are using the language and translation issues mentioned by the OP as an excuse to say, “The pope’s words do not apply to me and my idea of the perfect Church or society.” Those on both the left and the right seem to be doing this.

And yes, I know I tend to be too self-absorbed, something I must always struggle to keep in check
 
Well said, JReducation.

Yes, we are often too self-absorbed.:sad_yes:
 
Some said the moderators are but i have seen no evidence of that.:rolleyes:
 
All I can address is my own experience, and the answer is yes, too self-absorbed.

Self absorbed describes it well. Preoccupation with my own desires, passions, progress, Idolizing my own opinion, adherence to the rules for my own benefit,…all lead to death, rather than the fruitful life that the Sunday Gospel talked about last week and this.

What are the fruits of self absorption?
sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like
That pretty much crosses all political and ideological boundaries.

The simple question is, do I try to grow in Christian holiness for my own gain, or for God’s sake, through him, with him, in him.
 
I loved your post. One of the best I’ve seen in a long time.

How do we get the left and the right to see past their self-absorption? The answer is not an easy one, because as a people, we Americans have lost the ability to LISTEN. Sure, we hear the words that are being spoken; but do we contemplate what we have just heard? No. We (as a people) wait for our turn to talk. Sometimes we don’t even want to wait.

Critical thinking, compromise, listening, learning, and seeing someone else’s point of view are foreign to the 21st century American. Most of us hear what we want to, and tune out everything else. The DESIRE to see the greater world around us just isn’t there. Without that desire; learning and understanding cannot happen.

How do we penetrate the walls most people have built around themselves? Unless we break down the walls, true enlightenment will continue to elude us.
 
The first word of the Rule of St. Benedict is Listen! Needless to say I agree with you completely. The them of this year’s Benedictine Oblate’s Congress in Rome was just that, “Listen”, or rather “The Oblate listening in the World”.

Listen does not mean just hearing. It means trying to understand where the other person is coming from, at least attempting to “walk a mile in his shoes” or at least try to see it from his point of view, and indeed, respecting his or her point of view even if we don’t agree. It also means interacting with people who don’t agree. How many times have I heard on this forum to avoid places or people who aren’t aligned with the Church 110%! If we refrain from interacting with the world, we will surely, as the Holy Father has said many times, become a “self-referential” Church.

The Abbot Primate has been invited to meetings of corporate boards and high-level executives to help humanize the workplace. I think we need to re-humanize the society. The Rule of Saint Benedict is as good a place as any to start! But before we can apply that to society, I think we need to humanize the Church; by that I don’t mean taking Christ out of it, or making it less Christ-centric, but rather making it MORE Christ-centric; after all Christ recognized humanity in the poorest of spirits and the poorest of the poor. We need to all become more Christ-like, and I think the Holy Father is bang-on in this respect. As we become more Christ-like, we will become more respectful, and will recognize the human dignity even in those who disagree with us on fundamental issues.

This is where we can exploit the beauty of a multi-charism Church. From the monastics and the Rule of St. Benedict we can learn practical, human aspects of living in community while developing a deep spiritual sense, we can learn from the mendicant orders the notion of need vs. want, empathy and help for the poor while living among them; from the missionary orders we can learn to reach out. In last Sunday’s homily, the monk who was delivering it made it clear that we need missionary work right here in North America. In fact it may not be long before Africans come to us to evangelize Western Society.

Thanks Br. JR, for raising this very important subject!
 
Are we too self-absorbed for our own good and the good of the Church?
Excellent post as usual, Brother.

I’ve often heard people - colleagues, even - speak of themselves, and other upper middle-class people - as “psychologically minded”. Such a statement would generally be followed by a dismissal of others - often those from a rural background or a lower income bracket - as “not psychologically minded”.

That term has always bothered me until I read this reflection. What we call “psychological mindedness” - turning inwards, over-analyzing, connecting everything to one’s extended self - is often just self-absorption. 🙂
 
For those of us in the U.S., the biggest hurdle I see is the media. The media is all-present in American culture, and driven by ratings, and all this navel-gazing and divisiveness feeds ratings.

It’s easy for some of us who already see the destructive aspect of this to work around it, but I think the vast majority of people don’t realize it, or at least the extend of its destructiveness.

This is why I think it’s important for us to promote more thoughtful and loving dialogue.
 
Awesome Br. Jay!!! 👍

We are so blessed to have you here on CAF!!!

:clapping: :tiphat:
 
I loved your post. One of the best I’ve seen in a long time.

How do we get the left and the right to see past their self-absorption? The answer is not an easy one, because as a people, we Americans have lost the ability to LISTEN. Sure, we hear the words that are being spoken; but do we contemplate what we have just heard? No. We (as a people) wait for our turn to talk. Sometimes we don’t even want to wait.

Critical thinking, compromise, listening, learning, and seeing someone else’s point of view are foreign to the 21st century American. Most of us hear what we want to, and tune out everything else. The DESIRE to see the greater world around us just isn’t there. Without that desire; learning and understanding cannot happen.

How do we penetrate the walls most people have built around themselves? Unless we break down the walls, true enlightenment will continue to elude us.
Pope Benedict once wrote that we must be willing to welcome to other in his otherness. He was talking about non Catholics. But I think it applies to all people.

This is hard for us human beings, especially for certain cultures. I have found that Asians and Americans are very similar in this area. We’ve managed to remain isolated, probably because of our geographical place on the map. We have very little practice in the area of cross-cultural dialogue.

I use the term “cross-cultural” in this context, because I believe that it applies. The Traditionalist and the Liberal world are really cultures now. They’re no longer simply idea. They’ve taken on a life of their own. Each side has become closed to the rest of the world. Too much suspicion. The language that both sides use does not lead to open hearts and mind.

I’ve always believed that language represents culture, but it also shapes culture. I was just having this dialogue with a good friend on the thread on misconceptions about traditionalism. I was pointing out the need to expunge certain words from our language., The minute people hear them, they form an impression. Once that’s form, it’s hard to get past it.

The worse part is that we begin to turn those terms around in our heads, over and over again (navel gazing), until we see nothing else.

I want to repeat what OraLabora posted. Of all the advice given by the Spiritual Masters, I believe that Benedict’s advice is most appropriate at this time in history.
The first word of the Rule of St. Benedict is Listen!

Listen does not mean just hearing. It means trying to understand where the other person is coming from, at least attempting to “walk a mile in his shoes” or at least try to see it from his point of view, and indeed, respecting his or her point of view even if we don’t agree. It also means interacting with people who don’t agree. How many times have I heard on this forum to avoid places or people who aren’t aligned with the Church 110%! If we refrain from interacting with the world, we will surely, as the Holy Father has said many times, become a “self-referential” Church.

This is why I think it’s important for us to promote more thoughtful and loving dialogue.
 
Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church, are One and the Same.
Notice I did not refer to church with a capital “C”. It may take a while for the un-evangelized to enter the doors of our churches. We keep saying “you have to come to church, you have to come to Mass…” Fine, but what is needed for the celebration of the Eucharist to have real meaning is for people to be in a relationship with Christ. Are we looking to get up the numbers of people coming to Mass or to up the numbers of people having a relationship with Christ through the Church (with a capital C). When the latter happens, the former will naturally follow.

Yes, sometimes people will wander into churches and be captivated by the Mass, or the preaching of a particular priest, or the beauty of a service, but most often they come to Mass after having the desire to grow in their budding relationship with Christ. This is based on years of experience with RCIA. Many come to us without having a relationship with Christ. They come because they are marrying a Catholic, or they have a friend who has been speaking to them about Jesus and they want to know more. We begin with their relationship with Christ. If they don’t come to Mass every week at first (thought we would like that), then that is fine (for now). But eventually most come to see the importance of coming to Mass and will become active participants at Sunday liturgy. But we can’t always begin there.
 
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