Are we too self-absorbed?

[AndyP2010]

So is the Pope referring to the institutional church when he says it is “too self-absorbed”? At least partly? I’m getting a little confused reading all this. It sure seems to me that reading here at CAF forums that some things are out of whack, what with all the emphasis on “liturgical abuse” and “canon law says this and that”, etc. I’ve sometimes wondered where the Love of Christ is in all that. I hear Brother saying that some application is needed-there is some subjectivity. But people here have jumped down my throat when I’ve tried to express that in other threads–that sometimes there IS such a thing as being pastoral in approach with people.

One thing that I struggle to grasp is HOW do I deal lovingly with all the New Age, homosexual, cohabitating, cheating, politically correct people I interact with every day? What does it mean to love them? Obviously I treat them with respect but am I just supposed to pray for them if they are living sinful lives (not saying I don’t have sin either). Does it matter if they come to know Christ? Or will God just accept them in heaven because they are so influenced by the culture? Help me understand.

I just reread this… I didn’t mean it to sound so judgemental of others. What I mean to say is do I just let it go when others live obviously sinful lifestyles? I think rereading this, the answer is “yes”… leave it to God to judge. I don’t know how God will judge them and maybe I don’t need to worry or even think about that.

It sure is a challenge living in this culture sometimes! Wish I could erase my comment!

AnneTeresa, it is a challenge we all face your no worse than the rest of us. To follow up on Brother Jay’s post, do you remember when you first felt the love of Christ? How it was that you wanted only to please him and do his will. How you wanted to learn as much as you could and you started to really pay attention at Mass, read the Bible and study the CCC. We get to the point where we start to see how selfish and sinful we are and discover the joy of reconciliation. That is what the Holy Father wants us to understand, how to share that joy that love with the rest of the world. We have spent too much time telling people how they should live without first showing them why they should want to live that way. Yes a time for fraternal correction will come and when it does we should be ready to take correction when our turn comes as well.

 

[JReducation]

Thank you for the post Br Jay. It is easy to say “hate the sin but love the sinner” but sometimes it is difficult to keep reason and one loses the word love.

Quite a while before reading your post, I was thinking about sin today and gradually began to realise that if you hear the words “it is a sin” and see it in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, there is an assumption that you are in possession of full knowledge of the sin. Yet, I wonder, whether full knowledge is when mind connects to an open heart, so that the Truth is revealed and that mortifying feeling of doing wrong, hurting, offending or letting God down, arrives. This leads to remorse, repentance and an overwhelming desire to reunite with God. Without the latter, one could not receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

This would in some way explain to me how we can be blind, not only to some of our own shortcomings but in how we wrongly judge others, even though we know that what they say or do is contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Maybe that is why some people with a cause or attitude contrary to the Church’s teachings, become beguiled by their self perception and in their blindness that they become absorbed in their self-belief without realising how far they strayed?

Or have I gone to another planet on this one?

 

[Sirach2]

JReducation:

We, on the other hand, make sure that the world knows who sins and what sin they committed. We post it in blogs, bulletin boards, chat room, newspapers and magazines, newsletters. and bathroom walls.

This is morally wrong. A sinner has no right to reduce another sinner to dust and cover his or her rear end.

Here are the conditions for fraternal correction as found in Third Spiritual Alphabet by Francisco de Osuna, pg. 588. It is the best one I have found on this subject. I pray it will help all of us, as we reflect on Brother JR’s message

The first is certain knowledge of the sin; do not correct on the basis of mere suspicion.

The second is meekness in correcting; if we threaten angrily, we will provoke the person we discipline and cause him to commit further sin.

The third condition is that there be no one else more suitable for correcting. If some who are as good or better than I see the sinner or if they are his superiors or are more familiar with them, I can probably assume and believe that one of them will discipline him. However if it were certain they would not, then I would be bound to correct him, provided the other five conditions were simultaneously present.

The fourth is that there must be hope that my counsel will correct him. If this hope is not present, I should not discipline him.
*] Most often there is no desire of correction, but rather angry disclosure to all who will listen.]

The fifth condition is that his sin be mortal, not venial.

The sixth is that there does not appear to be a better time or place for discipline than when I see him sin or when I choose to correct him.

Though it is difficult to meet any one of the six conditions, the most troublesome is that of discerning whether or not the sin is mortal. If we cannot determine the seriousness of the sin, let us place our finger to the mouth, sealing our lips, so we will not admit evil in our effort to do good or destroy instead of building up.

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{*} My insertion.

Note well, that in the mercy of fraternal correction, this does not give anyone license to spread the gossip on a billboard to appease one’s indignation over the* perception* that another has “grievously” sinned. Jesus requires that it first be between the two persons ONLY. Very often, since judgment of the person’s interior is known to God alone, the assumption of a person’s failings are simply the weaknesses of nature that every one of us is prone to, without any intended malice whatsoever.

“If You, O Lord, should mark our iniquities, who could stand?” Ps. 130:3