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BlestOne
Guest
That’s the Spirit!!! I like this idea, how 'bout you Roman?
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SemperJase
Guest
She really should think about whether she wants him there. I would not invite anyone who refuses to acknowledge one of the participants.
He won’t allow you into his house, and won’t even be with her if you are there? Why in the world would this man be welcome at the wedding while he is busy insulting the man who will be her husband when the ceremony is completed?
An aside, there were friends of my wife’s family that I had not met who were at our wedding. At the reception when my wife would introduce me to these people she would say “I’d like to introduce you to my husband”. It seemed strange to me because we hadn’t been married for 2 hours but in that time I had stopped being “Jason” and become “my husband” to her.
That really is what happens in a wedding. Does she want someone there who will not honor that part of her?
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Semper
This is our paradox. He feels that she chose me over him, and it didnt have to be that way. He told her over the phone “I can’t believe you chose him over your family” and she said “I can’t believe I had to choose.” Its really sad the guilt trip him and her step mother throw at her.
She told him that I am apart of her life, its not a one or the other type of thing and that he should get to know me. He just answered with, “you’re being stubborn again.” :banghead:
I really want to take this summer, when we get home, to get to know him, if he is willing to see us. He just always wants her to come alone so he can give her tracts and talk to her about her faith.
One more question for everyone, what does she say if he says he doesnt want to go? Where would they go in their relationship from there. I can see it having a big impact if she asks him if he wants to go and he says no.
This is our paradox. He feels that she chose me over him, and it didnt have to be that way. He told her over the phone “I can’t believe you chose him over your family” and she said “I can’t believe I had to choose.” Its really sad the guilt trip him and her step mother throw at her.
She told him that I am apart of her life, its not a one or the other type of thing and that he should get to know me. He just answered with, “you’re being stubborn again.” :banghead:
I really want to take this summer, when we get home, to get to know him, if he is willing to see us. He just always wants her to come alone so he can give her tracts and talk to her about her faith.
One more question for everyone, what does she say if he says he doesnt want to go? Where would they go in their relationship from there. I can see it having a big impact if she asks him if he wants to go and he says no.
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SemperJase
Guest
For an evangelical who presumably subscribes to sola scriptura, he doesn’t know his bible very well:
Parents raise children so that one day the child will leave them.
You are right about the guilt trip. Which leads to the next point:
First, she should stop going alone. His demand that he won’t see her if you are present is manipulative. Time for her to set boundaries. If he can’t accept her with you, then he can’t accept her. He might sever the relationship again. If he tries to put a guilt trip on her, she needs to remind herself and him that it is HIS decision.
Sorry, but it is a big mistake to ask him to go in his current state. Again, no one who refuses to acknowledge one of the people getting married should be invited. As long as he refuses to accept you as her husband, he shouldn’t even be there. That’s just plain rude and disrespectful to both of you.
Now about the impact on their relationship. My wife’s father and her weren’t on speaking terms before our wedding (nothing to do with me though, they have had a rocky relationship for years). It got worse when she told him her step-father was going to walk her down the aisle. At first he wasn’t going to come. He relented. But her setting boudaries paid off in the end. It helped her overcome those guilt trips.
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JeffAustralia
Guest
You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear! Yes, it’d be wonderful to have a nice ‘n’ warm ‘n’ loving family at all times, but sometimes you just have to accept that it’s not gonna happen. The man’s obviously a raving ratbag who has little respect for his daughter as a person, and even less for you and your future marriage. You can’t pretend that he’s somebody that he’s not, just because that’s how it should be. Respect has to be earned. He doesn’t become “Dear Ol’ Dad” merely by fathering your wife. He has to BE a man worthy of the respect of both of you, and it appears to me he’s done very little. I’m a dad. And being a dad is much like being a husband (they go together afterall…funny that?) in that you sacrifice yourself, your own feelings and your own needs for your family. You, as Dad, need to be the strong and self-sacrificing one who takes it on the chin for the good of his kids. Sounds to me like you are trying to do this for him? It shouldn’t be that way. Be strong and stand by your wife…not him. Honour your wife, your Church, and your marriage, and leave him be.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I also am hearing that the problem may be greatly due to religious pride. Evidently choosing you is indicative of rejecting the religion he is obviously very proud of. (Think in terms of a Catholic father whose daughter is converting to some cult in direct opposition to her father.) That is, unless his faith in his religion is shallow and for show, which I have no way to ascertain – shallow or not, though, it seems to be deep enough to have him immersed.
Spoken by an expert I suppose.
This is the hard part. If he’s honest about his religion, than no amount of convincing or coercing is going to stop him, for Christ did tell us to pay attention to the things that last. For him that obviously means apologetics rather than human relationships are top priority. If he really believes she is going to hell, then given that misconception he would be a bad father NOT to behave this way.
The only defense I can think of would be an invisible one. Whatever he says, say, “that’s interesting I never thought of it that way,” or “that’s and interesting way to look at it,” and never let on that “interesting” can be a code word for anything from brilliant to ridiculous. He can say whatever he wants and if you are confident you need not reply – much as Jesus finally shut up and quit defending Himself with words, once it got to become futile.
Personally I think it would be a relief, in a way. He may actually not wish to ruin your ceremony. Not knowing how he thinks, I might just consider it a higher risk to push my daughter away “more likely permanently” if he ruined the ceremony, than if he simply continued to work behind the scenes. For myself, I do not like to go places where I know people don’t want me. Maybe he’s different, or maybe he would see it as his last chance to “rescue” her or something.
Part of it has to do with your convictions on the invitation. If you don’t invite him and he doesn’t show up, somehow you might feel guilty about “depriving” him of this chance to be part of your life. If you do invite him and he doesn’t show up, that does not mean that he stayed away because he thought you were going down the tubes and there was nothing he could do about it. He might actually refrain from going out of respect for others, knowing his own limitations in his ability to behave. Somehow, though, it doesn’t sound like this guy gives up easily so I wouldn’t at first assume that not showing up means automatically and completely conceding his daughter to “evil forces” or something.
Alan
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rkberlin
Guest
One more question for everyone, what does she say if he says he doesnt want to go? Where would they go in their relationship from there. I can see it having a big impact if she asks him if he wants to go and he says no.
hi again,
well, you know, first of all: Bless you for trying to help your fiancee out. You will make a wonderful husband. I still think you guys should invite him, even though it sounds like there WILL be issues for sure then. Your fiancee would most likely regret it if he’s excluded. If he refuses ( which might be a blessing to you all! ), then just leave it at that. You have asked, and he said no. Don’t go begging him. Make it clear that you won’t accept it if he upsets his daughter/ your future wife! If he loves her and he’s such an outstanding Christian, then he needs to back up his child in her decisions, no matter how bad they may seem like to him. My dad didn’t think highly of my husbnad ( rightly so, since dh cheates on me every chance he gets ), but supported my decision to marry him. I found out, though, that with many evangelical Christians, you just can’t win. I had a coworker who told me I will go to hell for being Catholic, since I’m not “saved”. Even though i told him " hello, let’s just agree how much we love Jesus, and that we both accept Him as our Savior ", it didn’t sway him. I understand how your fiancee wants to please dad, but it will hurt your relationship eventually. If she chooses you, then she has to stand behind you 100%, that also means no more going to see dad alone to please him. Dad needs to at least act like a civilized person, nobody says he has to become your best friend. I don’t envy your situation but you and your fiancee will pull through- through God’s grace. Just be strong and pray pray pray. Tell the pastor about these problems, so he’s prepared for the possible unpleasantness ( if dad decides to come ). Hang in there, may the Holy Spirit guide you!
hi again,
well, you know, first of all: Bless you for trying to help your fiancee out. You will make a wonderful husband. I still think you guys should invite him, even though it sounds like there WILL be issues for sure then. Your fiancee would most likely regret it if he’s excluded. If he refuses ( which might be a blessing to you all! ), then just leave it at that. You have asked, and he said no. Don’t go begging him. Make it clear that you won’t accept it if he upsets his daughter/ your future wife! If he loves her and he’s such an outstanding Christian, then he needs to back up his child in her decisions, no matter how bad they may seem like to him. My dad didn’t think highly of my husbnad ( rightly so, since dh cheates on me every chance he gets ), but supported my decision to marry him. I found out, though, that with many evangelical Christians, you just can’t win. I had a coworker who told me I will go to hell for being Catholic, since I’m not “saved”. Even though i told him " hello, let’s just agree how much we love Jesus, and that we both accept Him as our Savior ", it didn’t sway him. I understand how your fiancee wants to please dad, but it will hurt your relationship eventually. If she chooses you, then she has to stand behind you 100%, that also means no more going to see dad alone to please him. Dad needs to at least act like a civilized person, nobody says he has to become your best friend. I don’t envy your situation but you and your fiancee will pull through- through God’s grace. Just be strong and pray pray pray. Tell the pastor about these problems, so he’s prepared for the possible unpleasantness ( if dad decides to come ). Hang in there, may the Holy Spirit guide you!
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ItzmeCinD1
Guest
Wow! Reading this thread made me realize I’m not alone…and you have a worse situation than I do! (My parents and sister think I should NOT marry the man I want to; my brother’s rather indifferent…and they’re all Catholic except my dad–he’s really nothing, theologically speaking. Of course, we’re not QUITE engaged yet…and my family is all Roman Catholic and he’s Byzantine…and converted from a family of Lutherans!) Anyway, I digress…Onto your difficulty. I agree that you do need to invite her father if only for the reason that, well, as was stated above by so many: he’s her father. If my hopefully-soon-to-be fiance told me he didn’t want my father to come, it would hurt me VERY much. I LOVE my dad, and my mom and sister and brother. They are my FAMILY. Howvever, when you decide to get married you begin a new one. And you pray that the two can coexist. My parents and I went through some non-communication time recently as well (something I’d never done with them before). We’re getting back on track also–as long as I don’t discuss him. That’s the difficulty. They basically ignore him. Do they ignore you when you are there (I’m guessing you HAVE been there before at least…and they decided for whatever reason they didn’t want you back). Great advice also to have her make the decision (and I find it VERY impressive that you are being the bigger man about this and encouraging her to continue a positive relationship with him). A relationship can’t be one-sided though. I’m learning this myself right now. I’m possibly having to decide…as you will it seems (congratulations by the way on your engagement!
. When you get married sometimes you do have to “choose,” not because YOU want it that way, but because someone else makes it that way. It’s probably the most difficult part, and it doesn’t make any sense 
, I agree.
Remember also, that God is a very big God, and He is capable of so much. There are things that happen that people say they wouldn’t have expected “in a million years.” But they happen because God is awesome and amazing, and the ultimate Changer of Hearts. Trust Him to perform the miracles that He does. I know it’s despairing when you feel like you trust Him for something, and it seems to not happen, but we must continue. Sorry for my personal little additions of my own problems. I guess it’s nice to be able to discuss the same issues with someone else.
Jeremiah 29:11 “For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord, “plans for a life of abundance…”
May He grant you the abundance He has for you.
Peace,
Cindy
. When you get married sometimes you do have to “choose,” not because YOU want it that way, but because someone else makes it that way. It’s probably the most difficult part, and it doesn’t make any sense , I agree.Remember also, that God is a very big God, and He is capable of so much. There are things that happen that people say they wouldn’t have expected “in a million years.” But they happen because God is awesome and amazing, and the ultimate Changer of Hearts. Trust Him to perform the miracles that He does. I know it’s despairing when you feel like you trust Him for something, and it seems to not happen, but we must continue. Sorry for my personal little additions of my own problems. I guess it’s nice to be able to discuss the same issues with someone else.
Jeremiah 29:11 “For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord, “plans for a life of abundance…”
May He grant you the abundance He has for you.
Peace,
Cindy
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estesbob
Guest
Invite him and don’t say another word about what he and cannot do at the reception. I think he is punishing you for yor Catholicism by trying to get a rise out of you and seriously doubt he’s going to cause a scene at your wedding. And as others have said I suspect once the first grandchild comes around most of his hostility will vanish.
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OutinChgoburbs
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INVITE HIM, even if you two have to do it by the invitations you’re sending out to the rank-and file relatives and friends. She (and you) can always include a personal note to the effect that you’re looking forward to having him there. In person is better, but if she can’t get up the strength, don’t force the poor girl!!! Sheesh, this guy has alienated his whole family. But she will know she has done the right thing, and if he doesn’t show up, well, everybody knew he was not nice in the first place.
If he doesn’t show up, well, you will still be married.
If he tells her he has no intentions of coming to the wedding, her only response is, “Well, Dad, I’m sorry you feel that way, and we’ll miss you there. Maybe you’ll change your mind.” AND DROP THE SUBJECT, NEVER TO BRING IT UP AGAIN ON HER OWN.
Just remember, in the Sacrament of Matrimony, there is no “giving the bride away”. The bride can walk the aisle alone, walk it with her fiance, walk it with her mom, walk it with her stepfather or another male relative. In fact, the bride does not have to walk the aisle but can come in from the “other” side. The couple are ministers of the sacrament to each other.
And traditionally, when a bride’s parents are divorced, the place for the mother of the bride, her husband if she has one, and her other children is in the FIRST pew; while the divorced father of the bride and his rentinue sit in the THIRD pew (NOBODY sits in the second pew). Please don’t try to force your mother-in-law into a seating arrangement that may make her nervous or upset.
If he doesn’t show up, well, you will still be married.
If he tells her he has no intentions of coming to the wedding, her only response is, “Well, Dad, I’m sorry you feel that way, and we’ll miss you there. Maybe you’ll change your mind.” AND DROP THE SUBJECT, NEVER TO BRING IT UP AGAIN ON HER OWN.
Just remember, in the Sacrament of Matrimony, there is no “giving the bride away”. The bride can walk the aisle alone, walk it with her fiance, walk it with her mom, walk it with her stepfather or another male relative. In fact, the bride does not have to walk the aisle but can come in from the “other” side. The couple are ministers of the sacrament to each other.
And traditionally, when a bride’s parents are divorced, the place for the mother of the bride, her husband if she has one, and her other children is in the FIRST pew; while the divorced father of the bride and his rentinue sit in the THIRD pew (NOBODY sits in the second pew). Please don’t try to force your mother-in-law into a seating arrangement that may make her nervous or upset.
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
I don’t know guys. The more and more we talk about it the more she feels she doesnt want him there. It has been me pushing her to talk to him so their relationship would get better by our wedding. they would still be not talking to eachother if I wouldnt have encouraged her to make the first more. She told me today that everytime she feels she can move on and look past everything, she is reminded of something he said. Whether it was what he said about me, my family or her, she is still upset about what was said and how he treated her.
On a side note, she was looking through a booklet she got from RCIA ‘An examination of Conscience’ before her first confession and she saw in there “Failure to defend the Church when ridiculed” and said she would never again sit passively by the next time he decided to belittle her Church. So now we have that to look forward to.
God Bless everyone
On a side note, she was looking through a booklet she got from RCIA ‘An examination of Conscience’ before her first confession and she saw in there “Failure to defend the Church when ridiculed” and said she would never again sit passively by the next time he decided to belittle her Church. So now we have that to look forward to.
God Bless everyone
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JeffAustralia
Guest
Everyone who’s said “Invite him!” is correct, and good-hearted. Yes, you should always have “DAD” at your wedding. “DAD” in inverted commers is a lovely bloke, and worthy of respect. But he’s NOT the proverbial-dad in inverted commers. He’s that crazy bloke with a big fat ego and bad manners. Does anyone want him at their wedding?? I don’t think so! Use your best judgement.
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
I was under the impression she wanted him.
I was also under the impression that, despite his banning you from his home, she had a speaking relationship with him where she visited his home.
LOOK- The people here at CAF who really don’t know your situation. They are out here trying to help, but they only know what you describe. They say what they feel is right based on what you tell them. You can’t tell them first one little thing, then oh yeah add onto that, and then oh yeah something else.
SOOOOOO, I am going to rescind my advice.
**IF **your fiancee feels this man is abusive, obnoxious, and will simply ruin the day with his prescence, possibly start pontificating from the congregation the second he gets a chance, and will let everybody within earshot know that his little girl was stolen by the big bad papist, then she is right not to have him at the wedding. She has the right to receive the Sacrament of Marriage in peace. In fact, if he is as abusive as your series of posts trickles out, one at a time, then she shouldn’t even visit him, and he should not be told the date.
IF he is just a guy who happens to be sorrowful because he sees his daughter running away from his religion to what he considers the anti-Christ, well, cut the guy some slack. You’re probably going to be the only Catholics to ever cross his path, and it would not hurt him to be partially disabused of the notion of Catholics by attending your wedding. Send him an invitation and include a note from both of you. If he chooses not to come, don’t force him.
But the groom needs to get his story together and tell all the facts at once. AND IT IS A DECISION THE TWO OF YOU SHOULD MAKE TOGETHER IN PRAYER.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I agree with your advice, and as far as the groom getting the story together at once, I think the story is evolving even as we participate. When I am in a difficult social situation I often flip flop as to what my motives and preferences are, and yes facts that come up out of the discussion that I had forgotten about.
It makes it difficult for us to give “correct” advice, but I’m not sure that’s entirely problematic. If we give advice that seems extreme in one direction or another, we may actually be triggering the couple to consider aspects of it they hadn’t before, or consider them with a greater importance, and in this case I think it has probably been good for others as well that we covered more issues than the one at the hands of the OP.
Alan
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estesbob
Guest
Agreed. The story seem to keep changing. It’s like trying to hit a moving target. However I think the father should always be invited except in the most extraordinary of circumstances. Nothing I’ve read so far would lead me to believe the father should not be invited.
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
I am sorry guys. I will surrender from this thread.
Sorry if anyone feels I wasted their time. It truly was not my intention. I feel terrible that you guys think I have lead you on in anyway. I have not done it intentionally.
Thanks for the responses anyways guys, they are appreciated. She has read them and they really have been helpful to her.
God Bless
Sorry if anyone feels I wasted their time. It truly was not my intention. I feel terrible that you guys think I have lead you on in anyway. I have not done it intentionally.
Thanks for the responses anyways guys, they are appreciated. She has read them and they really have been helpful to her.
God Bless
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
ARRG!
It isn’t wasting our time, my time, anyway. It’s that when the whole perspective is clear, the advice is different. When it comes in little dribbles and drabs, it changes the advice from my perspective. If I had known your soon-to-be-father-in-law was in major need of psychological help from the get-go, I would have been more inclined to not even have your sweetheart approach him in person.
I want you to get it right.
That’s why I said what I said- not because you wasted time.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Agreed.I want you to get it right.
No time wasted from my point of view, as I saw this whole thread to be valuable. As we get this thing zoomed in we might be able to be of more specific help.
Alan
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Roman_Catholic_1
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I know I said I would retire from this thread but she asked him yesterday if he wanted to go to our wedding and I wanted to fill you guys in. He said that she was asking to far in advance and to ask him again when the wedding got closer because as of right now he wasnt sure if he wanted to go. He said that right now he wouldnt know the person that would be getting married because she is so different than the daughter he knew.
The conversation went good and they ended on a good terms, which I mean to say it didnt end in a huge fight like they usually do. He did ask her when her first communion was and then attacked the Sacrament of the Eucharist, even laughing at her for thinking it is really the body and blood of Christ. She never brings this stuff up, he just picks one thing about the Catholic Church to harp on her about each time she calls, so its not like she goes out looking for these conversations, they are unavoidable with him. Next time will probably be confession because he said she will probably have to take confession before she takes her first communion, in which she answered yes. She didnt tell him that she had already had her first confession.
She made the comment to me that maybe it would be better to sever ties altogether for the sake of her faith. I didnt know what to say, frankly I am at a loss of words and am tired of the whole situation with her father.
Should we ask again closer to the wedding, it is about a year away in case I hadnt already said it. I wouldnt think it would matter, you either want to go to your daughter’s wedding or you don’t. I didnt know it depended on the time of year your were asked to go
God Bless
The conversation went good and they ended on a good terms, which I mean to say it didnt end in a huge fight like they usually do. He did ask her when her first communion was and then attacked the Sacrament of the Eucharist, even laughing at her for thinking it is really the body and blood of Christ. She never brings this stuff up, he just picks one thing about the Catholic Church to harp on her about each time she calls, so its not like she goes out looking for these conversations, they are unavoidable with him. Next time will probably be confession because he said she will probably have to take confession before she takes her first communion, in which she answered yes. She didnt tell him that she had already had her first confession.
She made the comment to me that maybe it would be better to sever ties altogether for the sake of her faith. I didnt know what to say, frankly I am at a loss of words and am tired of the whole situation with her father.
Should we ask again closer to the wedding, it is about a year away in case I hadnt already said it. I wouldnt think it would matter, you either want to go to your daughter’s wedding or you don’t. I didnt know it depended on the time of year your were asked to go
God Bless
J
JeffAustralia
Guest
It’s up to you both entirely. If you feel like being kind and forgiving? Then of course this is a good thing, and very Christian of you. If you can avoid feeling anger and resentment toward him, then you’re doing very well. BUT remember that you need to honour your marriage and your Church. If you DO invite him, you need to make some conditions very clear. Insist that he shows respect for your marriage by behaving respecfully, and assure him that he’ll be given his marching orders well and truly if he plays up. To do any less would be to do your marriage and your Church a disservice.
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