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LucyLight
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Yes, I agree the feminists are the lynch pin to their (Mickey and Portrait’s) whole conspiracy theory. Btw, interesting info about the labryinth’s I’ll have to google image that.
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chevalier
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True, and to be honest, the last thing I’d want would be to be a soldier captured by the enemy together with a female squadmate and taken for interrogation together.
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BlueEyedLady
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And I would rather be drafted than see my older brother go. Such is the nature of love and family. No matter what group of people we send there will always be another willing to take their place.
But if a family can be preserved by not taking a man away from his wife and kids then it should be. Even if that means a single woman has to go.
Besides, I live in this country, I have the right to vote, I am protected by the constitution, I can take advantage of public services, etc. It is just as much my responsibility to stand up and fight for my country when called as it is a man’s. My uterus has nothing to do with it, and certainly shouldn’t get me out of it.
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Mickey
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I have seen too many “Catholic” retreat centers that went bad. That is why the Vatican is cracking down. You make sarcastic jokes…but it’s not really a laughing matter.
Name calling is not becoming of you.
Popular piety? I doubt it.
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Mickey
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I suppose you’ll have to accuse the Vatican also.
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severus68
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I agree. Of course, it would be best if men (and it mostly men in power), would just stop starting wars. How many wars are started or fueled for unjust reasons?
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Mickey
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…the example most enthusiasts cite is the labyrinth embedded in the floor of the medieval Chartres Cathedral in France. There is speculation, but seemingly no firm evidence, that ancient or medieval Christians literally walked through labyrinths, at Chartres or elsewhere. Its advocates within the Christian Church today like to portray labyrinth walking as a “rediscovery” of a lost form of Christian spirituality.
The mother of the modern labyrinth movement is Lauren Artress, canon of Grace Cathedral in San Francisco. In her public speaking, she is sometimes vague about the theological implications of the labyrinth, which she calls a “big spiritual open house.” Artress, who is also a psychotherapist, speaks more often in the lingo of Jungian psychotherapy than of traditional Christian practice. For her, the labyrinth is for the “transformation of human personality in progress” that can accomplish a “shift in consciousness as we seek spiritual maturity as a species….”
The emphasis of the labyrinth’s proponents is upon the mystical powers of the inner self, not on the transcendent God of traditional Christianity….
Artress frequently mentions “the Source,” “the Sacred,” and “the God within,” which has been “destroyed through centuries of patriarchal domination, through fears of creativity and of the traits associated with the feminine.” Artress prefers this “Source” to the transcendent God “out there” who “keeps track of whether we follow the rules….”
Artress repeats the claims of some radical feminist theologians that nine million women were burned at the stake as witches during the Middle Ages in a patriarchal attempt to suppress feminine spiritual vitality….
But Christians who walk the labyrinth should know there is little if any proof in church history that labyrinth walking has been a spiritual tool for Christians. More important, they should know that its current popularizers see the labyrinth’s spiritually amorphous path more as a partial replacement for the God of Christianity than as a tool to bring followers closer to him.
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=3440nscendent
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thewanderer
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They weren’t saying that radical feminism isn’t dangerous, or that the vatican was wrong to reprimand that specific group. They were pointing out the fact that whenever something is perceived as bad about our culture it is blamed solely on “those radical feminists”. Nothing is as clear cut as that. There are many, many causes for the problems in society today, and they are not only caused by radical feminism. Blaming everything on them can become way to avoid investigating the real source of problems.I suppose you’ll have to accuse the Vatican also.
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Mickey
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Of course you cannot blame everything on them. But “those radical feminist” have done more damage than you think.
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VeritasLuxMea
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It all went down hill when we started letting them own property and vote. For God’s sake, we let them vote now… what are we thinking?
I find that more and more women are thinking for themselves, making their own choices. They read what they want to read, socialize with who they want to socialize with. They will not accept discipline from their husbands.
Why, the other day, a woman spoke to me… WITHOUT being spoken to first.
The Devil is clearly at work here, my friends. We need to take a lesson from the wisdom of St. Paul and put women back in their proper place… under our boots!
Just kidding.
I find that more and more women are thinking for themselves, making their own choices. They read what they want to read, socialize with who they want to socialize with. They will not accept discipline from their husbands.
Why, the other day, a woman spoke to me… WITHOUT being spoken to first.
The Devil is clearly at work here, my friends. We need to take a lesson from the wisdom of St. Paul and put women back in their proper place… under our boots!
Just kidding.
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EasterJoy
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I didn’t say you were a paranoid. I do think you are making comments that *sound *paranoid. If you condemn something out of hand without doing investigation that you are fully capable of doing just because religious orders who have given up the habit are in favor of it, I think that is over the top.
The Vatican has not been cracking down on labyrinths. The Vatican has a labyrinth!! Lots of places built during or before the Gothic period do. Is every labyrinth a Catholic center of piety? No. These designs were being laid down in Greece 400 years or more before the birth of Christ.
Chartes Cathedral has a labyrinth, put in in the 1200s. It was not “New Age”, it was not “pagan”. It was used for Christian prayer. Walking the labyrinth as a way of prayer is a very old spiritual practice, albeit one that fell out of popularity. Doing yoga on the labyrinth, laying out your karma-drenched crystals on the labyrinth, using the center of a labyrinth to channel “benevolent spirits”, that is something else again.
Anyway, I think we ought to agree that we’re going to get nowhere here. I have lost my trust that you have the slightest inclination to change your mind, so I hope you’ll pardon me for bowing out. You’ll think what you think, and that is that.
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EasterJoy
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To the original point: women who have fully developed their physical capacities have markedly less physical strength and speed than men who are similarly trained. There is a reason that the genders are separated for competition at the Olympics, and that their best marks are very different. In that sense, yes, women are weaker. Women as a group have better survival statistics at every age from conception on, and are therefore stronger in that sense, but in terms of moving stuff and fighting off aggressors, men are better equipped physically.
If you do brain scans, male and female brains are different, too. How that is important is still something they are figuring out, in terms of scientific measurement. That of course, is a field of endeavor that is not without political pressures on it, so unfortunately those data have to be taken with a grain of salt. If you find something that someone funding you doesn’t want to hear, you have to be very careful about whether and how you communicate that finding to the broader world. I would be willing to lay that undue pressure at the feet of the “radical feminists”, because that is the currently-binding false boundary. In other times, there were other false boundaries in place, but that is a false boundary that we are contending with now, and I don’t think anyone would be one bit paranoid if they were to say so.
If you do brain scans, male and female brains are different, too. How that is important is still something they are figuring out, in terms of scientific measurement. That of course, is a field of endeavor that is not without political pressures on it, so unfortunately those data have to be taken with a grain of salt. If you find something that someone funding you doesn’t want to hear, you have to be very careful about whether and how you communicate that finding to the broader world. I would be willing to lay that undue pressure at the feet of the “radical feminists”, because that is the currently-binding false boundary. In other times, there were other false boundaries in place, but that is a false boundary that we are contending with now, and I don’t think anyone would be one bit paranoid if they were to say so.
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Mickey
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion. You say that I sound paranoid. And I say that you sound uninformed.
LOL, I have never been accused of not doing research or investigation.
They are cracking down on the radical feminist nuns. Many of these nuns have adopted labyrinths as a new age tool.
Read the whole article I posted.
Yeah. So?
Now you are getting it! That is how they are being used today in many places.
You are absolutely correct here.
Goodbye.
Yes.
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Mickey
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Some might say…Eve.
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EasterJoy
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Actually, that would be Lillith. Read up on Lillith some time.Some might say…Eve.
And yes, sir, you had better bet that Lillith (or Lilith) is the patron of radical feminists. You would be right on the money with that.
I really do need to go…bye!!
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Mickey
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I am old enough to see what radical feminism has done to the Catholic Church. Language in the Liturgy has been gender neutralized. New age practices have been introduced at every level. I have seen nuns practicing and teaching reiki. I have seen retreat centers doing seminars on enneagram, mandalas, and training reiki masters. I have seen the introduction of eco-spirituality and goddess worship and/or mother earth worship. I have seen Catholic priests teaching seminarians to say the “Our Father” like this:
“Our Father, mother, who art in heaven…”
I have seen “Catholic” nuns in support of Planned Parenthood and abortion and female ordination. This has been going on for many decades…and the Vatican has seen much, much more. That is why they have no choice but to crack down on the offenders. You can live in your little bubble and proclaim that people sound “paranoid”…but something needs to be done…and I applaud the Vatican for taking action.
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Mickey
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I think Eve was the first.
She (Eve) hastened to eat before her husband that she might become head over her head, that she might become the one to give command to that one by whom she was to be commanded and that she might be older in divinity than the one who was older than she in humanity.
St Ephraim the Syrian, Commentary on Genesis
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littlestsouls
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Are women weaker than men? No amount of observation is going to fully reveal to us the inner states of other individuals, and I believe that it is in that sense that we can talk about weakness most meaningfully. Physical strength, for example, varies greatly and is not too important in the grand scheme of things.
A beautiful truth about Christianity is that our very weakness entitles us to God’s strength, for He said: “Without Me you can do nothing.” In this regard, it is better to be weak (and truly realise it) than strong!
A beautiful truth about Christianity is that our very weakness entitles us to God’s strength, for He said: “Without Me you can do nothing.” In this regard, it is better to be weak (and truly realise it) than strong!
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EasterJoy
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According to some rabbinic myths (like 6th century or so, if memory serves), Lilith was Adam’s first wife, also made from dust like he was, not from his rib. She would not submit to him and they quarrelled over this, so she left him and spoke the Ineffable Name in order to gain power for herself. She became a consort and mother of demons.I think Eve was the first.
She (Eve) hastened to eat before her husband that she might become head over her head, that she might become the one to give command to that one by whom she was to be commanded and that she might be older in divinity than the one who was older than she in humanity.
St Ephraim the Syrian, Commentary on Genesis
Be that as it may, when Jewish-American feminists started a non-profit publication in 1976, they titled it “Lilith Magazine”, which is the title it still carries. So they would say the first feminist was this Lilith.
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Baelor
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I would refrain from telling other posters what they think.
And you are provincial enough that issues that you have personally faced are ones you project onto the entire Catholic Church.
No one is claiming that there are not issues. Most posters, however, are capable of discerning the complexity of situations instead of inventing bogeymen and are certainly capable of recognizing the difference between systemic and localized issues.
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