Are women really weaker than men?

[Portrait]

Do they have a piece of property to which they could grow some of their own food and do some canning? What are the husband’s skills? Can he pursue a higher paying job? What are their bills? Can they cut some corners if the husband lands a better paying job and the wife stays home to raise the kids? Do they have more than one vehicle? Do they already have children? Would they save money if they did not have to pay for daycare?

Dear Mickey,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hear, hear.

The problem with our Western world is that money is always the predominant concern and people feel that they must ‘keep up with the Jones’s’. Of course money is an important consideration and yes the bills have to be settled, but as Catholics we need to think about other important issues also, such as the long term welfare of our families. God has promised that he will not see “the righteous forsaken or his seed begging bread” (Ps. 37: 25) and I can personally testify to the truth of this as my wife and I were bringing up our child. We were extremely poor and disadvantaged by UK standards, but we were happy as a family and enjoyed a nutritous diet and basic clothes on our backs. Had my wife worked we would have enjoyed a much better lifestyle and greater financial security, but, God bless her, she accepted humbly the role of motherhood and we have never had any regrets about that. God will honour them who honour Him and He is no man’s debtor.

Women working outside of the home has brought much misery in its wake and I do not believe that people are happier for it, although they try to convince themselves that they are. Sadly, multitudes are caught up in a vortex of working hard and playing hard and it is taking its toll on their mental and physical health. This is what takes place when we reject God’s good providential order and choose instead to follow the godless ideology of the world.

God bless and jolly good posts, as always.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Mickey]

But the answer is very important.

Your question is irrelevant. I don’t have some kind of infallible time guage for you to see. I can give you the experience of my family.

 

[Mickey]

Dear Mickey,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hear, hear.

The problem with our Western world is that money is always the predominant concern and people feel that they must ‘keep up with the Jones’s’. Of course money is an important consideration and yes the bills have to be settled, but as Catholics we need to think about other important issues also, such as the long term welfare of our families. God has promised that he will not see “the righteous forsaken or his seed begging bread” (Ps. 37: 25) and I can personally testify to the truth of this as my wife and I were bringing up our child. We were extremely poor and disadvantaged by UK standards, but we were happy as a family and enjoyed a nutritous diet and basic clothes on our backs. Had my wife worked we would have enjoyed a much better lifestyle and greater financial security, but, God bless her, she accepted humbly the role of motherhood and we have never had any regrets about that. God will honour them who honour Him and He is no man’s debtor.

Women working outside of the home has brought much misery in its wake and I do not believe that people are happier for it, although they try to convince themselves that they are. Sadly, multitudes are caught up in a vortex of working hard and playing hard and it is taking its toll on their mental and physical health. This is what takes place when we reject God’s good providential order and choose instead to follow the godless ideology of the world.

God bless and jolly good posts, as always.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

God grant you many blessed years my dear friend. We are currently going through the same situation that you described…and we wouldn’t change it for the world.

 

[Baelor]

1. The LCWR represents most female religious in the US.

Most female religious. As compared to the entirety of the Catholic Church.

1. CDF said Pope Benedict XVI approved CDF’s taking action January 14, 2011, two days after a regular session of the CDF decided that “the current doctrinal and pastoral situation of LCWR is grave and a matter of serious concern, also given the influence the LCWR exercises on religious Congregations in other parts of the world.”

No one said otherwise. The LCWR is a subset of the entire Catholic population. The fact that a problem exists there does not mean it exists everywhere for all people.

Now you are reaching. It’s not a job…it’s an act of charity for Christ’s Church and people. I’m glad I could clear that up for you.

I am not reaching at all. On what basis may women not work for the families outside the home but may do community service work?

The argument against women working actual jobs presented thus far in no way involves their being compensated, so that should not matter at all. Inexplicably, to you it does.

Your question is irrelevant. I don’t have some kind of infallible time guage for you to see. I can give you the experience of my family.

So for some families, a mother with a part-time or full-time job may be the best situation even in a perfect world.

If yes, there is no issue.

If no, then there is an “infallible time gauge” according to you, and given that you have been asked, you should identify what it is.

 

[Portrait]

Also, seeing as this thread is already irredeemably derailed, I have a question for Portrait and Micky, and anyone else who holds the idea of married women not working in such a strict way. Are married women allowed, according to you, to participate in activities, as opposed to a job, outside of the home? If women are not supposed to earn money outside ofthe home period because doing so would lead to excessive amounts of time away from the family, surely it must follow that thy cannot take part in other extra-home activities such as cleaning the Church, helping people in homeless shelters, soup kitchens etc. So by putting a ban on married women working you are also putting a ban on them helping out at the parish or soup kitchens.

Dear thewanderer,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It is important that we distinguish between things which differ, dear sister. Of course a wife and mother could do occasional charitable work outside the home for perhaps a couple of hours a week, but this is hardly the same as have a full-time occupation of 40 plus hours a week. Let us get things in perspective a little.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[PRmerger]

Dear PRmerger,

Cordial greetings and what a pleasant surprise, my dear sister. Jolly good to see you again and hope you are keeping well. If someone can verify my Catholic credentials, then you certainly can in view of that debate we had with that Protestant chap (‘Not the same God’)!!

Oh, yes, folks. I will stand up and proclaim quite confidently that it is good to have Portrait on the thread when debating with non-Catholics. His Catholic apologetics are rock-solid and I am quite proud to have him as a friend and on “our side”.

That being said, I have been rather surprised with the culture of your posts on other threads. I am indeed troubled by a thread that someone referred to (was it here?) regarding your beliefs in the Scriptural imperative for wearing a mantilla. It’s the imperative part that gives me pause. But, I did not read the thread nor your posts entirely, so I will defer that conversation for another time.

And I am also vehemently in disagreement with you, dear friend, regarding your position on women and their place in society.

As Lost Wanderer said, “St. Joan says hi!”

And I will add, St. Gianna, working mother and recently canonized saint, also says hi.

So, I think it is the place of this forum to be friends and to be Catholics, all loyal to the magisterium, yet disagree quite vociferously on issues.

 

[Baelor]

So, I think it is the place of this forum to be friends and to be Catholics, all loyal to the magisterium, yet disagree quite vociferously on issues.

I question how applicable the term “loyal” is to individuals who claim that Catholics are obligated on a moral level to do things that the Church does not require them to.

 

[thewanderer]

Your question is irrelevant. I don’t have some kind of infallible time guage for you to see. I can give you the experience of my family.

Then how can you make the claim that it is not ok for wives to work outside the home? I can only assume that you believe 40 hours a week is too much. What about part-time work? Is part-time work unacceptable? I assume you would at least say that some of it is.
Let me ask you this. Do you agree that the reason a wife should not work away from her family is because it takes her away from her family too much? If you agree with this than my question is extremely relevant. If it is wrong to spend morethan a certain length of time away from one’s family then it doesn’t matter whether it’s for work, relaxation, or charity, it’s still wrong. If you do not agree with the above reason for women working outside of the home being wrong can you please tell me why you believe it is wrong?

 

[PRmerger]

Therefore in view of this, dear sister, there is very little I can do regarding married mothers who work as cashiers in banks, school teachers, sales assistants in department stores, or any other occupation.

So you would see a Catholic married female physician?

Or seek the legal advice of a Catholic married female attorney?

I find that curious, given your position you’ve been advocating here.

It does not seem as if you are living out your position. If you truly believe that it is wrong for a married (Catholic) woman to work outside the home, then it would seem consistent to not seek their services.

 

[thewanderer]

Dear thewanderer,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It is important that we distinguish between things which differ, dear sister. Of course a wife and mother could do occasional charitable work outside the home for perhaps a couple of hours a week, but this is hardly the same as have a full-time occupation of 40 plus hours a week. Let us get things in perspective a little.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

So do you have an answer to my question of how much time away from the family is too much?

 

[Portrait]

So do you have an answer to my question of how much time away from the family is too much?

Dear the wanderer,

Hello again.

A woman working a couple or so hours a week undertaking some charitable work would not, I think, be detrimental to a families welfare. However, dear sister, I think the vast majority of people would see the difference between this and working in excess of 40 hours a week.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[thewanderer]

Dear the wanderer,

Hello again.

A woman working a couple or so hours a week undertaking some charitable work would not, I think, be detrimental to a families welfare. However, dear sister, I think the vast majority of people would see the difference between this and working in excess of 40 hours a week.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Yes, there is a huge difference. However that still does not answer my question. At what point does it become unnacceptable? This is a very important question because as long as it remains unanswered no wife will be able to know when she is allowed to leave her family and when not.

Also, I noted that you said a couple of hours doing charitable work. So you are fine with a woman spending a few hours cleaning outside of the home without being paid for it… I have to ask. Are you ok with women performing this same task if they receive monetary compensation for it?

 

[Portrait]

So you would see a Catholic married female physician?

Or seek the legal advice of a Catholic married female attorney?

I find that curious, given your position you’ve been advocating here.

It does not seem as if you are living out your position. If you truly believe that it is wrong for a married (Catholic) woman to work outside the home, then it would seem consistent to not seek their services.

Dear PRmerger,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your reponse.

The problem is, dear sister, short of asking a female lawyer or doctor openly, “Are you a Catholic wife and mother?”, I would not otherwise know thier marital status. Since it would be downright discourteous to ask any woman such a question outright, I would really have no choice but to accept her services. In any case, I cannot possibly know the status of every women with whom I have any dealings from day to day when I go about my business.

What I can do, my dear sister, is live out my position within my own family and so be a good example for others to observe. Hopefully, I will get an opportunity to speak to some people about the choices my wife and I have made an why we have made them.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Portrait]

Yes, there is a huge difference. However that still does not answer my question. At what point does it become unnacceptable? This is a very important question because as long as it remains unanswered no wife will be able to know when she is allowed to leave her family and when not.

Also, I noted that you said a couple of hours doing charitable work. So you are fine with a woman spending a few hours cleaning outside of the home without being paid for it… I have to ask. Are you ok with women performing this same task if they receive monetary compensation for it?

Dear thewanderer,

Hello again and thankyou for your response.

All I can say, dear sister, is that working outside of the home for a married woman, in a voluntary or paid capacity, should be kept to the bear minimum, certainly no more than three hours a week.

Goodbye for now as I am going ‘off air’. May you and all other contributors to the thread enjoy the rest of your day. God bless you all, dearly beloved.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax:tiphat:

 

[Walking_Home]

PRmerger:

So, I think it is the place of this forum to be friends and to be Catholics, all loyal to the magisterium, yet disagree quite vociferously on issues.

I question how applicable the term “loyal” is to individuals who claim that Catholics are obligated on a moral level to do things that the Church does not require them to.

---

Bingo —

 

[Mickey]

Most female religious. As compared to the entirety of the Catholic Church.

That is a large number. And nuns to boot!!!

The fact that a problem exists there does not mean it exists everywhere for all people.

Oh but it does. You would be shocked at how many laity think reiki is a valid Catholic praxis. Nuns do a lot of catechizing.

On what basis may women not work for the families outside the home but may do community service work?

I already answered that. It is not a job. My wife takes the little one to feed the poor…to visit the sick…to help the Church.

You are reaching.

The argument against women working actual jobs presented thus far in no way involves their being compensated, so that should not matter at all. Inexplicably, to you it does.

What is so difficult for you to understand. My wife does not leave the little one alone so that she can work at the accounting firm…the little one tags along to help feed the poor. sheesh!

So for some families, a mother with a part-time or full-time job may be the best situation even in a perfect world.

I do not think it is the best situation.

If no, then there is an “infallible time gauge” according to you, and given that you have been asked, you should identify what it is.

LOL! Yeah right. My wife never leaves the little one…there’s your infallible time guage.

 

[Mickey]

I question how applicable the term “loyal” is to individuals who claim that Catholics are obligated on a moral level to do things that the Church does not require them to.

Careful with that beam.

 

[EasterJoy]

My forehead felt lonely for a wall this afternoon.

All I can say, dear sister, is that working outside of the home for a married woman, in a voluntary or paid capacity, should be kept to the bear minimum, certainly no more than three hours a week.

You’re saying merely married, and not a mother of young children? And you’re saying voluntary or paid? Do you want the parishes to fall apart?!? Or do you not realize how the church and its linens are cleaned and its funerals put on and…Sir, do you have any clue who does the bulk of the domestic work in the Church?

Besides, women who do more have merited canonization, so apparently the Good Lord is willing to find more than 3 hours acceptable:

*“Everyone works in the service of man. We doctors work directly on man himself… The great mystery of man is Jesus: ‘He who visits a sick person, helps me,’ Jesus said… Just as the priest can touch Jesus, so do we touch Jesus in the bodies of our patients… We have opportunities to do good that the priest doesn’t have. Our mission is not finished when medicines are no longer of use. We must bring the soul to God; our word has some authority… Catholic doctors are so necessary!” *–St. Gianna Beretta Molla, pediatrician and mother of three

Portrait, the Church does not teach what you do. You’re making stuff up. Your imaginary ideal is not remotely what devout married Catholic women have done throughout the ages.

 

[Baelor]

All I can say, dear sister, is that working outside of the home for a married woman, in a voluntary or paid capacity, should be kept to the bear minimum, certainly no more than three hours a week.

OMG. Sources?

Oh but it does. You would be shocked at how many laity think reiki is a valid Catholic praxis. Nuns do a lot of catechizing.

I have not been catechized by nuns. I am also not unique.

I already answered that. It is not a job. My wife takes the little one to feed the poor…to visit the sick…to help the Church.

You have not answered the actual question, which is why that is permissible but jobs are not.

What is so difficult for you to understand. My wife does not leave the little one alone so that she can work at the accounting firm…the little one tags along to help feed the poor. sheesh!

Why is not okay for a little one to tag along to the accounting firm?

Also,

Portrait:

should be kept to the bear minimum

bear minimum

bear minimum

 

[Mickey]

Is part-time work unacceptable? I assume you would at least say that some of it is.

My wife is a stay at home mom…period. She homeschools and teaches the lives of the saints daily. We pray as a family three times a day. We eat dinner together and pray before all meals. We attend Liturgy and participate in the sacraments including frequent confession. We stay very close to the monasteries. I take off work on major feast days so that we can attend Liturgy. Could we be in a higher income bracket if my wife worked? Yes. But we chose to make sacrifices…and we would not have it any other way. I believe it is the ideal way to raise a family. I am not judging anyone who does not do this…I am simply agreeing with Portrait that Scripture and patristics lends itself to this praxis.

If you agree with this than my question is extremely relevant. If it is wrong to spend morethan a certain length of time away from one’s family then it doesn’t matter whether it’s for work, relaxation, or charity, it’s still wrong.

And I answered you. The little ones do the charity with the mother to learn a proper Christian example.