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Ubenedictus
Guest
i dont think he has a problem with the education of girls and women.
Ubenedictus
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Ubenedictus
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Portrait
Guest
Dear AngryAtheist,
Cordial greetings and thankyou of the above, including the link.
What that Economist article shows most plainly is that these are pagan cultures that urgently require the enlightenment which only the religion of Christ can truly bring. Please God may it be so soon.
However, here in the Western world secular radical femenism is the scourge of our society because it seeks to eliminate the God-given distinctions between men and women. The Woman’s Liberation Movement was a Marxist movement from its very inception and untold misery and confusion has been its bitter fruit. For one thing its obssession with all-round equality with men has made a significant contribution to the snuffing out of gentlemanly behaviour. Thus men no longer offer their seats in crowded bus or tube to a woman because she is a woman, since treating her with any special consideration is regarded as being demeaning! More seriously, the effect on family life has been destructive. The headship of the father being no longer accepted as a fact of nature, children have lost the sense of a firm locus of authority in the home and have become unmanagable. The problem is so bad that parents now have to go to ‘parenting workshops’ to learn how to discipline their offspring and to be firm. True, other factors are undoubtedly involved, but femenism cannot be wholly exonerated from blame. Again, married women claiming a high profile career for themmselves have eroded their husband’s sense of responsibility as the breadwinner, which now tends to be shared in the name of equality. Is it any wonder that parents today look at each other with a degree of ambivalence as their mutual loyality is subject to new latter-day strain? Moreover, as a consequence of radical femenist ideology men have ceased to feel they have protective roles and respect between the sexes has actually at an all-time low. Need I go on?
Thanks be to God, things have not become universally bad in our society and there are still fine stable families that have not capitulated to the femenist propaganda, but such families, alas, now seem very old fashioned and are becoming rare.
God bless and goodbye for now.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
We have an appropriate term for this in the secular (i.e. non-religious) world.
Equal in Name Only.
A sentiment that is contradicted by your own endorsement of Catholic Planet ideas about women (link to source: catholicplanet.com/women/roles.html) in another recent thread (link to thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…heist8&page=19).
Because if all the Catholic Planet ideas you endorsed were implemented in Western society women would basically be reduced to the status of chattel again.
Speaking of which…
You never answered these questions of mine in the thread under discussion (despite my asking you repeatedly):
What legal rights and protections would women have in your ideal society?
What political rights would women have in your ideal society?
Would women and girls have the right to an education in your ideal society?
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
We have an appropriate term for this in the secular (i.e. non-religious) world.
Equal in Name Only.
A sentiment that is contradicted by your own endorsement of Catholic Planet ideas about women (link to source: catholicplanet.com/women/roles.html) in another recent thread (link to thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…heist8&page=19).
Because if all the Catholic Planet ideas you endorsed were implemented in Western society women would basically be reduced to the status of chattel again.
Speaking of which…
You never answered these questions of mine in the thread under discussion (despite my asking you repeatedly):
What legal rights and protections would women have in your ideal society?
What political rights would women have in your ideal society?
Would women and girls have the right to an education in your ideal society?
I believe you’re making a rather large assumption when it comes to Portrait.
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FaithBuild18
Guest
Haha Angry Atheist. I find it funny how you did not even attempt to argue against my main points. I assume you have no real defense, as your replies to my posts were nothing more than bicker. That’s the only reason you’re here I see, to bicker.
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Ubenedictus
Guest
hmm…and yet paul says the slaves can still live a christian life even in that situation.
Ubenedictus
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Ubenedictus
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i guess you guys know each other.
Ubenedictus
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Dan_Daly
Guest
And how are China and India eliminating females?
Abortion.
And how gives them material and moral support to abort their baby girls?
Western Feminists.
You’ve hit upon a connection that takes many people a long time to make.
“Birth Control” is not about “sexual freedom” at all. It’s about societal control. Whether it’s Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood or President Hu and the Communists in China, the goal of contraception and abortion is to decrease “undesirable” elements of society and increase control by those in power.
pax
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Dan_Daly
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If someone is engaging in sexual abuse, they are not living a virginal life. So blaming virginity for abuse is illogical.
Pax
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Portrait
Guest
Dear AngryAtheist,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.
The words of H.H.JPII were interpreted using the the literal sense, it is just that you disagreed with my understanding of them. Moreover, I explained to you, dear friend, what I believed to be a perfectly reasonable understanding of those words (see post 321). Your response in post 334 was that my understanding was “one of the most obviously biased readings of an important document” that you had come across. However, that, was simply you expressing your opinion, which, of course, you were perfectly entitled to do. However, as I stated in a further response (post 353), your opinion that my understanding of ‘A Letter to Women’ was “obviously biased” was based upon your own pre-conceived notions regarding the role and place of women in contemporary society. In other words, dear friend, it could well be said that your own understanding is so “obviously biased”.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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Portrait
Guest
Dear DanDaly,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hear, hear, jolly well said, dear chap.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Based on what exactly?
It appears that the patriarchal attitudes in places like China and India are a bigger threat to women today. Since if they have their way there will be few women at all in those parts of the world in the next generation (link to source: economist.com/node/15606229).
India and China have a long history of female infanticide.
The idea that women aren’t qualified for/shouldn’t be used for anything but domestic work has a long history in those places (especially China).
An idea that Portrait and those like him embrace and that is used to justify the claim that women are inferior and therefore less deserving to have resources expended on them.
Taken to its natural extreme (which is what those who support Catholic Planet appear to want to do) patriarchy kills women because it lowers their status in comparison to men to the point where their lives are significantly devalued.
Abortion did not create these misogynistic attitudes leading to Gendercide in places like China. It has merely enabled them.
This is an expression of what these cultures really think of their women and girls.
Based on what exactly?
It appears that the patriarchal attitudes in places like China and India are a bigger threat to women today. Since if they have their way there will be few women at all in those parts of the world in the next generation (link to source: economist.com/node/15606229).
Your over simplifying.
India and China have a long history of female infanticide.
The idea that women aren’t qualified for/shouldn’t be used for anything but domestic work has a long history in those places (especially China).
An idea that Portrait and those like him embrace and that is used to justify the claim that women are inferior and therefore less deserving to have resources expended on them.
Taken to its natural extreme (which is what those who support Catholic Planet appear to want to do) patriarchy kills women because it lowers their status in comparison to men to the point where their lives are significantly devalued.
Abortion did not create these misogynistic attitudes leading to Gendercide in places like China. It has merely enabled them.
This is an expression of what these cultures really think of their women and girls.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
As interpreted by you (for instance, you claimed that Pope John Paul II’s words praising women who work didn’t contradict the idea that women shouldn’t work).
How does that make ANY SENSE from a Catholic perspective?
Especially if you accept the document in question as legitimate doctrine.
As interpreted by you (for instance, you claimed that Pope John Paul II’s words praising women who work didn’t contradict the idea that women shouldn’t work).
So the Pope praised working women specifically as a group, even though women working outside the home is wrong
How does that make ANY SENSE from a Catholic perspective?
Especially if you accept the document in question as legitimate doctrine.
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LucyLight
Guest
Wow! It’s not men to blame for the misogyny in China and India its women! Are you kidding me! The reason why they are being aborted is because they are not valued in those countries. They are seen as worthless. This is a clear cut case of misogyny and you still blame feminists. Infanticide has been and is still a problem in those countries. Those countries have been killing their females for a long time. Abortion isn’t some new thing that came out of the seventies. Those countries need feminists to fight to raise the value of women in those countries. FYI, just because someone is a feminist does not mean that they are for abortion and just because someone is a feminist does not mean that they are a woman.
Most of what is blamed on feminists in these forums should be blamed on militant secularists. They are the ones who are trying to destroy the family and take God out of society. They use issues like women’s rights to disguise their goals.
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Dan_Daly
Guest
I think you misunderstand me.
I said “western feminists” not “western women”.
Many feminists are not women (they’re men), and many woman are not feminists. “Feminist” and “Women” do not mean the same thing.
Feminism is a strain of marxism. Which again points to the synergy between organizations like NOW and Planned Parenthood and the regime in Communist China.
From Pope Pius XI’s encyclical Divini Redemptoris (On Atheistic Communism)
Are there many abuses of women? Yes there are. That’s why Marxist Feminism has some appeal. As Belloc says “heresies survive based upon the truth they contain.”
The truth is that modern feminism IS an oppression of women.
As Catholics we must fight both Marxist feminism and the underlying injustices that gave rise to it in the first place.
A person doesn’t need to be a feminist to be “pro-woman” they simply need to be…Catholic.
If abortion, contraception, pornography, and divorce disappeared tomorrow, it would of course be great for everyone, but especially so for women.
Pax Christi
I said “western feminists” not “western women”.
Many feminists are not women (they’re men), and many woman are not feminists. “Feminist” and “Women” do not mean the same thing.
Feminism is a strain of marxism. Which again points to the synergy between organizations like NOW and Planned Parenthood and the regime in Communist China.
From Pope Pius XI’s encyclical Divini Redemptoris (On Atheistic Communism)
I just read your post again, and I think we are on the same page, just using the same word to mean different things. To me a “feminist” is a militant secularist.
Are there many abuses of women? Yes there are. That’s why Marxist Feminism has some appeal. As Belloc says “heresies survive based upon the truth they contain.”
The truth is that modern feminism IS an oppression of women.
As Catholics we must fight both Marxist feminism and the underlying injustices that gave rise to it in the first place.
A person doesn’t need to be a feminist to be “pro-woman” they simply need to be…Catholic.
If abortion, contraception, pornography, and divorce disappeared tomorrow, it would of course be great for everyone, but especially so for women.
Pax Christi
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
I have to admit this line made me laugh out loud (especially considering some of the stuff Portrait has recently said).
I suppose its true that everyone is the hero of their own story
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Dan_Daly
Guest
So is it your position that Catholicism is an anti-woman religion?I have to admit this line made me laugh out loud (especially considering some of the stuff Portrait has recently said).
I suppose its true that everyone is the hero of their own story
Pax
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Portrait
Guest
Dear AngryAtheist,Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
As interpreted by you (for instance, you claimed that Pope John Paul II’s words praising women who work didn’t contradict the idea that women shouldn’t work).
So the Pope praised working women specifically as a group, even though women working outside the home is wrong
How does that make ANY SENSE from a Catholic perspective?
Especially if you accept the document in question as legitimate doctrine.
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.
H.H.JPII did indeed acknowledge the valuable contribution of working women, dear friend. That much is quite plain from ‘A Letter to Women’, but since he references several categories it seems perfectly reasonable to ask who the working women of whom he speaks actually are. Now since he has already addressed the wives and mothers as a group, it is logical to assume that working women are distinguished from that group and so must necessarily refer to single women (who are not wives and mothers) who must, like everyone else, support themselves.
Moreover, the fact is that H.H.JPII could have quite easily have mentioned, as a further category, wives and mothers who were also working women, but it is significant that he chose not to do so. If they were so very important as you contend, my dear friend, then surely in a document entitled ‘A Letter to Women’ he would have singled them out for warm approval and admiration, as he did the other groups. The fact that he did not strongly suggest that he did not recognise such a paradigm (cf. Titus 2: 4,5).
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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Portrait
Guest
Dear AngryAtheist,I have to admit this line made me laugh out loud (especially considering some of the stuff Portrait has recently said).
I suppose its true that everyone is the hero of their own story
Hello again.
It would only elicit that sort of response, dear friend, if you completely misunderstand the role and place of women in authentic Catholic theology. Christianity is ‘pro-women’, and always has been, since the religion of Christ is pro-women in that it emphasizes the dignity of womanhood. Moreover, it is an indisputable fact that the example and teaching of Christ has lifted women in one country and society after another to a postion that they did not occupy previously. In religions such as Judaism and Islam, women have a much more inferior place than men, so the Christian religion is in fact very pro-women because it recognises the dignity of womanhood. However, this is poles apart from virtually obliterating the distinctions between the sexes that is associated with secular radical femenism and its warped ideology. That sort of ‘equality’ is anti-Christian and is actually a shameful denial of true femeninity and womanhood, as given to us by the divine providence.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Its pretty clear that you are judging the document in a very biased way (assuming that because something is not praised in a specific manner, it must be bad) in order to rationalize your support of misogynistic positions like these catholicplanet.com/women/roles.html that would reduce women to the status of chattel if implemented.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Why do you consistently misspell Feminism and Femininity?
At first I thought it was just an honest error on your part, but for whatever reason you keep doing it again and again:shrug:
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