Are women who have had an abortion the same as any other child murder?

[vera_dicere]

Frankly, I think if a woman gets an abortion, she should be sterilised at the same time - if she can kill her most vunlerable children, then what chance do any future ones have? Any children she currently has should be removed.

Of course, we all know that’s not going to happen.

I mean, really, if a person tore the limbs of a dog, snapped their spine, ripped out their guts and crushed their skull, they’d be crucified by the public, however, you do that to a child, as is done in an abortion, its lauded as your “right to chose”. Its absolutely sickening.

God have mercy on us!

 

[Gardenman]

I know 6 people who are extreme animal rights proponents…and they’re ALL pro abortion. They see nothing wrong with killing a baby up until the day of delivery but go ballistic at animal abuse.

Talk about mixed up priorities.

It’s sickening.

 

[vera_dicere]

I know 6 people who are extreme animal rights proponents…and they’re ALL pro abortion. They see nothing wrong with killing a baby up until the day of delivery but go ballistic at animal abuse.

Talk about mixed up priorities.

It’s sickening.

Reminds me of bibical mention of people worshiping cows and sacrificing children to images of animals.

Thats essentially what we’ve got here, paganism and child sacrifice for the new millinenum.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

Abortion is murder. A woman is not any less cupable of committing a serious sin because she is a woman. One of the great lies of the pro-choice movement is that somehow women are less responsible for their actions & bodies because they are women.

Also, in most cases, there are other sins which lead to to an abortion. Although some aborted babies are conceived in the marital embrace, many of them are conceived outside of the marriage bond. Despite what previous posters have stated, most women know abortion is murder and chose to do it anyway out of selfishness.

Unchivalrous, disregarding taboo and convention and …factually accurate at least in its fundamentals.

It is belittling to women to pretend they don’t know what they aredoing. They do or at least the majority do and do so anyway.

 

[yellowbicycle]

Frankly, I think if a woman gets an abortion, she should be sterilised at the same time - if she can kill her most vunlerable children, then what chance do any future ones have? Any children she currently has should be removed.

Of course, we all know that’s not going to happen.

I mean, really, if a person tore the limbs of a dog, snapped their spine, ripped out their guts and crushed their skull, they’d be crucified by the public, however, you do that to a child, as is done in an abortion, its lauded as your “right to chose”. Its absolutely sickening.

God have mercy on us!

I understand and share your anger. Abortion IS sickening.
But, your solution of sterilization assumes the woman would not change her ways in the future, and I believe that assumption is false.

 

[TamM]

I understand and share your anger. Abortion IS sickening.
But, your solution of sterilization assumes the woman would not change her ways in the future, and I believe that assumption is false.

My thoughts exactly yellowbicycle, except I know that assumption is false because someone very precious to me did have an abortion and then after she had a child and she sacrificed *everything *for it. When she had the abortion she was young (this was over 30 years ago) and her parents coerced her. After she had a baby (same dad, years later) he cheated and split.(he’s now a minister for the JW’s btw). She did everything thereafter for her child, and stayed chaste the rest of her life (and always put her children and grandchildren before herself). That was her one and only boyfriend (and yes they married). She spent the rest of her life repenting (and regretting). And I’m really glad no one sterilized her, because she is my Mother and she’s a wonderful Mother and Grandmother, and furthermore, if we are to say that women shouldn’t have abortions or use birth control because it interferes with Gods wishes, who are we to interfere with God’s plan by sterilizing women?

Side Note : I always grew up feeling like I was missing an older brother and used to ask my Mom to adopt one for me. I even used to dream about him. I never knew about her past until I was an adult. Strange or what?

Further Side Note: Please offer a prayer for my Mother’s soul and that she make peace with herself and come home to the Lord.

 

[Shin]

In answer to the topic question.

Yes.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Very true, just as guilty, just as responsible for the outcome of this precious life they have conceived. If you consider that the man should be the protector of his family and this life maybe his crime is even greater. If you see a child you ask, “Who is the father, who is the mother”, same for an aborted child.

Abortion is such a bad sin that excommunication is the outcome without repentence.

What makes you think the man involved is not at least as responsible as the woman?

Not true.

 

[TamM]

Abortion is such a bad sin that excommunication is the outcome without repentence.

my understanding from reading Catholicism for Dummies is that excommunication can be lifted by the bishop and in many diocese this can also be done by the local parish priest.

 

[yellowbicycle]

My thoughts exactly yellowbicycle, except I know that assumption is false because someone very precious to me did have an abortion and then after she had a child and she sacrificed *everything *for it. When she had the abortion she was young (this was over 30 years ago) and her parents coerced her. After she had a baby (same dad, years later) he cheated and split.(he’s now a minister for the JW’s btw). She did everything thereafter for her child, and stayed chaste the rest of her life (and always put her children and grandchildren before herself). That was her one and only boyfriend (and yes they married). She spent the rest of her life repenting (and regretting). And I’m really glad no one sterilized her, because she is my Mother and she’s a wonderful Mother and Grandmother, and furthermore, if we are to say that women shouldn’t have abortions or use birth control because it interferes with Gods wishes, who are we to interfere with God’s plan by sterilizing women?

Side Note : I always grew up feeling like I was missing an older brother and used to ask my Mom to adopt one for me. I even used to dream about him. I never knew about her past until I was an adult. Strange or what?

Further Side Note: Please offer a prayer for my Mother’s soul and that she make peace with herself and come home to the Lord.

Absolutely I will offer a prayer for your mother. She sounds like a wonderful human being, and to raise a daughter with such compassion, well, she must have done something right. That IS strange about your brother, particularly that you felt you were missing an OLDER brother. Kids can sense things, I truly believe that.

 

[TamM]

Absolutely I will offer a prayer for your mother. She sounds like a wonderful human being, and to raise a daughter with such compassion, well, she must have done something right. That IS strange about your brother, particularly that you felt you were missing an OLDER brother. Kids can sense things, I truly believe that.

Thank you for your prayer and kind words, it means a lot to me.

 

[c659smith]

legally if she causes the death of the baby in the womb or causes harm to the baby or anyone else causing harm or death to the baby in the womb without the aid of the medically approved abortionist.

Kind of hypercritical huh!

Even our Goverment believes the baby is a human life.

 

[survive]

Since women who want to abort their children who see an ultrasound decide to let the child live in 90% of cases, I think that 9/10 of abortions happen to women who don’t realize what it means.
Something like half are under extreme duress, of those who have abortions. Perhaps this could be taken to mean that 95% either don’t actually choose it themselves or have no understanding of the thing they’re doing. Then, about 2-4% abort because they have been convinced their lives or health is in dire danger otherwise.
A majority, therefore, were never just like any other child murderer at all, but are actually additional victims – of deception, coercion or medical emergency, real or just believed to be real. If one in 25 or 50 or 100 knows exactly what is going on and what it means, chooses freely and knows she doesn’t have to for any urgent medical reason, then somewhere between 1/25 and 1/100 is in fact a woman who committed homicide in my book. But of that number, how many are repentant and changed? There is no way of knowing. But their current life might give some hints about how much they’ve changed. Even that number, however, did what they did because it was easy to arrange and there was no chance of arrest, and they did it to avoid being further involved with their kids, not out of hate or for thrills, one would assume. So, I consider it extremely unlikely that a post-abortion mother would be a danger to a babysitting charge.

 

[c659smith]

Since women who want to abort their children who see an ultrasound decide to let the child live in 90% of cases, I think that 9/10 of abortions happen to women who don’t realize what it means.
Something like half are under extreme duress, of those who have abortions. Perhaps this could be taken to mean that 95% either don’t actually choose it themselves or have no understanding of the thing they’re doing. Then, about 2-4% abort because they have been convinced their lives or health is in dire danger otherwise.
A majority, therefore, were never just like any other child murderer at all, but are actually additional victims – of deception, coercion or medical emergency, real or just believed to be real. If one in 25 or 50 or 100 knows exactly what is going on and what it means, chooses freely and knows she doesn’t have to for any urgent medical reason, then somewhere between 1/25 and 1/100 is in fact a woman who committed homicide in my book. But of that number, how many are repentant and changed? There is no way of knowing. But their current life might give some hints about how much they’ve changed. Even that number, however, did what they did because it was easy to arrange and there was no chance of arrest, and they did it to avoid being further involved with their kids, not out of hate or for thrills, one would assume. So, I consider it extremely unlikely that a post-abortion mother would be a danger to a babysitting charge.

Where do you get your figures from?

Here are the facts;

abort73.com/HTML/II-A-abortion_statistics.html

WHY ARE ABORTIONS PERFORMED?
On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).

For this reason it is murder. Don’t listen to the hype that killing the young baby in the womb is nothing but condidering the baby an inconveince and a way to get out of their responsibility.

If I can find out what an abortion is and how it is performed then so can the woman.

I like the wording pro abortionist use–Pro-Choice
Well to make an intelligent choice decisions one must have the pro and cons on both sides.

I bet most woman who have abortions in this country take more time thinking about their next party then looking up the facts on abortion.

Almost 50 % of all abortions in this country have had a previous abortion.

 

[Neolithic]

In order to answer this question effectively, we should take into consideration societal views.

A point of fact is that many people fail to make the connection between abortion and murder, which is evident by abortion being legal. The woman seeking an abortion, generally uncultivated, knows abortion is legal, but may not understand the division the issue has caused (and for good reason), so obtains an abortion out of sheer ignorance. Maybe she doesn’t know that a child in the womb, at any stage, is a human being.

So would I equate that person with a child murderer? No. I would also be suspect of any child murderer who claims to be repentant; there is no good in those people, IMO.

 

[c659smith]

In order to answer this question effectively, we should take into consideration societal views.

A point of fact is that many people fail to make the connection between abortion and murder, which is evident by abortion being legal. The woman seeking an abortion, generally uncultivated, knows abortion is legal, but may not understand the division the issue has caused (and for good reason), so obtains an abortion out of sheer ignorance. Maybe she doesn’t know that a child in the womb, at any stage, is a human being.

So would I equate that person with a child murderer? No. I would also be suspect of any child murderer who claims to be repentant; there is no good in those people, IMO.

She knows if she causes harm herself and to the baby in the womb she will be charged with a crime.

She knows that if someone other than a approved medical abortionist causes harm to the baby in the womb they will be charged with a crime.

Tell me in all 50 states if one drives drunk and gets into a crash and it caused the death of a 5 month baby in the womb what would the charge be?

You got it manslaughter

Petersen in California who killed his pregnant wife causing death to the baby in the womb was convicted of double homicide.

women in the U.S. are not at the far reaches of the earth and know darn well what they are doing. Remember over 47% of all abortions performed in the United States are from women who have had repetitive abortions.

there is no sheer ignorance, are you saying she does not have the common sense of an animal.

I do pray for them and hope they repent for they will one day may try the excuse you give them when they meet up with Jesus and that is “I did not Know it was wrong”?

 

[Neolithic]

She knows if she causes harm herself and to the baby in the womb she will be charged with a crime.

She knows that if someone other than a approved medical abortionist causes harm to the baby in the womb they will be charged with a crime.

Tell me in all 50 states if one drives drunk and gets into a crash and it caused the death of a 5 month baby in the womb what would the charge be?

You got it manslaughter

Petersen in California who killed his pregnant wife causing death to the baby in the womb was convicted of double homicide.

I understand what you’re saying, and I understand that my post, in many ways, may seem like a vindication of their actions. Please understand, this is not my intention. I am very much prolife, both personally and politically; at the same time, however, I recognize that many woman who obtain abortions are, generally, uneducated.

Consider:

• 28% of all abortions are obtained by women who make less than $15,000 a year.

*19% of all abortions are obtained by women who make between $15,000 - $29,999 a year.

Averaged out, women in lower income brackets account for the majority of abortions. When you consider what else is specific among lower income earners, a reasonable deduction can be made. (A 5% difference is found when you add in the 30,000 - 35,000, which is still low income.)

Furthermore, most abortions are obtained by individuals less than 25-years-old; 52%, in fact. When I was 25, I didn’t care a great deal about learning the law. So, I think we make a mistake when we conclude that because we know something, they [young women] must know it, too.

women in the U.S. are not at the far reaches of the earth and know darn well what they are doing. Remember over 47% of all abortions performed in the United States are from women who have had repetitive abortions.

there is no sheer ignorance, are you saying she does not have the common sense of an animal.

Common sense is an overstated term and it really is relative.

I certainly think that women understand having abortion means no more baby, but I don’t think many make the connection between developing baby and human being. I think many view abortion as a form of birth control that is simply removing their egg - much like their period.

Also, you have different societal views. For example, how often is abortion talked about in the movies or in the media that younger people would watch? Not very often. And, sadly, when it is talked about, it’s along the lines of a young lady saying, “I have to make this choice for me; it’s best for me.”

What are young women to think then?

abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

 

[captbackfire]

survive tells us:
*
“Since women who want to abort their children who see an ultrasound decide to let the child live in 90% of cases, I think that 9/10 of abortions happen to women who don’t realize what it means.”*

***survive, would you be good enough to provide for us your source for this statistic? Thank you.

capt***

 

[FranciscanGemma]

Do you see any difference? Would you let a repentant child murderer watch your child? How about a repentant woman who had an abortion?

You’d be quite surprised to know just how many “good Catholic women” out there have had abortions when they were in high school or college! I can almost guarantee there are probably a few in your own parish that you’d never guess would do such a thing. I happen to know of a couple of women who now are leaders in their homeschool community and are looked upon as very devout wives and mothers. I don’t know you, but my guess is to say these ladies probably have you topped in the “holiness” contest. They realized the gravity of their sins, confessed them, and were welcomed back into the Church. You seem to forget that Jesus forgives the sinner that repents. I find your comment and question more than a little distasteful! While abortion is still murder, comparing it as you did, does no one any good.

 

[c659smith]

I understand what you’re saying, and I understand that my post, in many ways, may seem like a vindication of their actions. Please understand, this is not my intention. I am very much prolife, both personally and politically; at the same time, however, I recognize that many woman who obtain abortions are, generally, uneducated.

Consider:

• 28% of all abortions are obtained by women who make less than $15,000 a year.

*19% of all abortions are obtained by women who make between $15,000 - $29,999 a year.

Averaged out, women in lower income brackets account for the majority of abortions. When you consider what else is specific among lower income earners, a reasonable deduction can be made. (A 5% difference is found when you add in the 30,000 - 35,000, which is still low income.)

Furthermore, most abortions are obtained by individuals less than 25-years-old; 52%, in fact. When I was 25, I didn’t care a great deal about learning the law. So, I think we make a mistake when we conclude that because we know something, they [young women] must know it, too.

Common sense is an overstated term and it really is relative.

I certainly think that women understand having abortion means no more baby, but I don’t think many make the connection between developing baby and human being. I think many view abortion as a form of birth control that is simply removing their egg - much like their period.

Also, you have different societal views. For example, how often is abortion talked about in the movies or in the media that younger people would watch? Not very often. And, sadly, when it is talked about, it’s along the lines of a young lady saying, “I have to make this choice for me; it’s best for me.”

What are young women to think then?

abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

pregnant = baby = life change= inconveinent= well it’s legal=