Are works necessary? And thief on the cross

[fred_conty]

Hi guys

I need your help. For the first time I feel that I might have a good opportunity to lead someone into the Catholic faith.

It’s a lady raised in a Baptist community.

Long story short:- We got to a point in the discussion where she asked are works necessary for salvation in the Catholic Church.

I’m thinking yes. So I said yes but that I would check with you guys.

Then she hit me with the thief on the cross.

I’m sorry I’m not very good at this. Leading someone into Catholicism is very difficult, can someone help please.

Psalm-prayer - 34th week in Ordinary Time 1914 - divine office

“Take our shame away from us, Lord, and make us rejoice in your saving works. May all who have been chosen by your Son always abound in works of faith, hope, and love in your service.”

The thief had all three.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[Christian50]

QUOTE=Fr of Jazz;12534132]I have given you numerous biblical texts to which you have not responded. And I am speaking about what the CC formally teaches not the theological opinions of various writers.

What CCC 600 teaches is that those people predestined to heaven are so because God foresees that they will die in a state of grace. It does NOT teach that they die in a state of grace because they are predestined. But you keep falling back into this latter proposition that the CCC does not teach. This is the heart of the problem. You must address this.

If, as you assert, FP is given at baptism, then you are teaching unconditional double predestination which the CC rejects. I.e., they are assured of dying in a state of grace at the moment of their baptism. Those who are not given FP at baptism are unconditionally damned. You must address this.

1. A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: AQUINAS said it ALWAYS saves a person because of THE KIND of grace it is; MOLINA said it ALWAYS saves a person because God only gives it to those whom he knows will respond to it. But the effect is the same: The gift of final perseverance ALWAYS works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

The Church FORMALLY teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.
[43] AQUINAS (and even MOLINA) said this grace ALWAYS ensures that a person will persevere.

[44] AQUINAS said, “Predestination [to final salvation] MOST CERTAINLY and INFALLIBLY takes effect.”

AQUINAS said the gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in good TO THE END of life. In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and guarding him against the attacks of the passions…after anyone has been justified by grace, he still needs to beseech God for the aforesaid gift of PERSEVERANCE, that he may be kept from evil TILL THE END of life. End quote

The power of perseverance is neither in the human will alone nor in God’s grace solely, but in the combination of both, i.e., Divine grace aiding human will, and human will co-operating with Divine grace.

The phrase in the above quotes Such as:

a. “The gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in good TO THE END of life.”

b. Needs to beseech God for the aforesaid gift of PERSEVERANCE, that he may be kept from evil TILL THE END of life.

It much seems, the function of final perseverance is a CONTINUOUS event from baptism TILL THE END of life.

I also realized, the predestined to heaven are co-operating God’s grace called FP or another grace of God which keep them in the state of grace and to die in the state of grace in reality makes no difference.

In this regard, it doesn’t make any difference that the grace called FP given at baptism or at the end of life.

Another matter:
If the (grace) FP given at baptism that doesn’t necessarily mean unconditional double predestination.

Proof:
Quote: “AQUINAS said it ALWAYS saves a person because of THE KIND of grace it is; MOLINA said it ALWAYS saves a person because God only gives it to those whom he knows will respond to it. But the effect is the same: The gift of final perseverance ALWAYS works.” End quote

As we see above:
If the FP is given unconditionally at baptism to the predestined to heaven, then it is an unconditional double predestination, which the CCC rejects.

If the FP given conditionally at baptism to the predestined to heaven, then that is a conditional predestination to heaven and a conditional predestination to hell. Those who reject the grace of God end up in hell. This is in line with the CCC.

Another matter:
When the predestined to heaven assured that they die in the state of grace?

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. The predestination of the elect.

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity.
Nor could it be otherwise.
For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote.

As we see above and in the Word of God, practically the predestined heaven assured salvation at that point when God elected them to heaven.

This election took place Before founding of the world (Eph.1:4), before times eternal (2 Tim.1:9).

Continued

 

[Christian50]

That is very different than saying that God foresees at ones baptism whether they will cooperate with His graces throughout live and die in a state of grace or not, and wills the consequence.

 

[Christian50]

Your quotes from scripture are selective. Consider:

The role of our conscious moral choices in salvation. These choices are taught by the word of God and empowered by His grace. Still we can resist the workings of grace. We must choose to remain faithful to reach salvation.

When the young rich man approached Jesus and asked, “What must I do to inherit/gain eternal life?” How does Jesus answer? “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Mt 19:16-19 // Mk 10:17-19; Lk 18:18-20) Jesus said, “Repent and believe in the Gospel.” (Mk 1:15) How can one repent of sin without at the same time intending not to sin again? The apostles likewise preached repentance (and baptism) for the forgiveness of sins (AA 2:37-38).

Jn 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voices and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.

1 Cor 6:8-10
Corinthians, who are already believers, are warned: no slanderers, robbers, etc. will enter the kingdom of God. *

Gal 5:16-21
The Galatians, who are already believers*, are warned: if you do {x, y, z, etc.}, you will not enter the kingdom of God.

Heb 6:4-6; 10:26-7

Jas 5:19-20
One of the “brothers” [someone who already believes] may stray. His soul is saved from “death”, if he is brought back from sin. (see 1:15; 4:17).

1 Jn 5:16-17
“There is such a thing as a deadly ‘mortal’ in RSV] sin.” [a “brother” (=believer) is not exempt].

Jn 15:6
If we don’t remain in Christ (the Vine) will be thrown out and burned.
Jesus addresses our freedom urging us (believers) to remain, because we (believers) can be pulled away

1 Cor 9:27
Paul “drives” and “trains” his body for fear that having preached to others, he himself may be “disqualified.”

1 Cor 15:1-2
the Gospel will save you, if you hold fast to it; otherwise you believed in vain

Philip 3:10-13
Paul does not believe he has “taken hold” of the resurrection: he “hopes” to posses it.
[One does not hope for that of which they are already assured.]

Gal 5:4
One can “fall from grace.” The Galatians, who were believers but went back to believing in salvation through the Jewish Law, have “fallen from grace.”

1 Cor 10:1-12
Paul speaking to believers warns them not to be overconfident and “tempt/test Christ” and concludes by saying: “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”

2 Tim 2:12
“If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He will deny us.”

2 Pt 2:20-21
“For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.”

One can leave the Christian faith (apostasy) and thereby lose salvation (Heb 10:26-27 with 3:12 and 6:4-8). Paul teaches this to Timothy (1 Tim 1:19).

Fr of Jazz, I perfectly agree with you everything that you have written.
I believe all of the above Bible verses, they are very important.

According to RCC teaching:

Scripture Catholic by John Salza. (Well known Catholic Author and Apologist.)
III. Predestination and the “Elect”

Quote: “There are two types of predestination, grace (initial salvation) and to glory (final salvation). … Predestination is either to grace (initial salvation) which we could lose or to glory (final salvation) which we cannot lose. …
1 Tim.2:6 – Jesus Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all not just for the elect. But only those predestined to glory (final salvation) will be saved.” End quote. (In the brackets is mine)

I know there are people who in some period of their life are saved (predestined to grace) they can commit mortal sins and by confession/absolution they are able to restore their salvation.

I use Bible verses carefully and selectively because I don’t want to confuse people.

When I use Bible verses which are referring to the predestined to grace, these verses describe that they can end up in Hell.

When I use Bible verses which are referring to the predestined to Heaven, these Bible verses describe that they can NEVER end up in Hell.

To combine these two, would cause GREAT CONFUSION among those who are not familiar with the teaching of the RCC and the Bible.

For avoid confusion, we always make it clear, we are speaking of those who are predestined to heaven or of those who are predestined to grace and we should quote Bible verses accordingly, meaning selectively.

For example: If we quote John 5:29b; which is addressed to the predestined to grace, and we address it to the predestined to heaven and we try to prove they can end up in hell, then we try to prove theological impossibility.

Furthermore we cause great confusion with it.

The predestined to heaven and the predestined to grace, have two different destinies.
They are two distinct groups of people.

If we mix the two groups of people together, then we don’t know the differences between the two groups of people and we don’t know RCC teaching on predestination and we cause confusion.

I use Bible verses selectively to avoid confusions.

God bless.

Christian

 

[Christian50]

A better way to put it would be:

1. Sin.
2. Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc., if done this way). [These are attempts at self-justification]
3. Works done by virtue of faith and given by grace (this includes those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.) [These are faith working itself out through love.]

In my opinion: Your post Fr of Jazz is the most clear and a most educational post on the subject.

In order to understand SUPERNATURAL MERIT which is: “Works done by virtue of faith and given by grace (this includes those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.) [These are faith working itself out through love.]”

Also in order to understand BAD WORKS (wood, hay, straw 1 Cor.3:11-15) that God rejects which is: “Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc., if done this way). [These are attempts at self-justification]”

We must know the RCC teaching on the CONDITIONS to be QUALIFIED to do SUPERNATURAL MERIT, which are as follows:

The CONDITIONS must be present to make supernatural merit possible:
“The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

Justification in Catholic Teaching by Jimmy Akin

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote.

RCC teaching on Justification/Salvation which teaching qualifies us to do supernatural merit if we believe them:

For example:
HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan
Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become righteous and be saved? We are NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.
Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

Catholic teaching (Catholic Customs and Practices) also states: “Catholic believes salvation by GRACE ALONE, SOLELY on account of the work of Christ.”

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION
by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church.

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT it any way.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the justified PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of FAITH is NEITHER the basis of justification nor merits it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees FAITH as FUNDAMENTAL in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place.
Thus justifying grace NEVER becomes a human possession.
While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this RENEVAL in faith, hope, love is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to justification.

In my opinion: Any Christian, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant, who believes the above teaching of the RCC qualified to do supernatural merit and if he dies in the state of grace he can go to heaven with abundant supernatural merit.

They don’t go to heaven by “grace alone,” “faith alone” and SOLELY on account of the work of Christ” BECAUSE they go to heaven with abundant supernatural merit as well.

I also believe; those who are working to avoid hell, (if they die in the state of grace) they go to heaven “grace alone,” “faith alone” and “SOLELY on account of the work of Christ” (Rom.4:5; Rom.4:25; rom.5:18; 1 Cor.3:15; etc.) BECAUSE all their “Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.), are works attempts of self-justification]” and at the judgment rejected by God (1 Cor.3:11-15).

God bless.

Christian

 

[Christian50]

We appear to disagree on the understanding of sin and predestination in general ]. Predestination for us doesn’t mean one won’t commit a mortal sin. God forsees a soul’s choices, good and bad, otherwise no need to give us free will or the sacraments.

Here’s one example

Look how many people decide to live together today without marriage. They are serial fornicators. How about the baptised Catholic, who is currently without mortal sin but last week decided to live in such a relationship. They decide to go out for dinner one evening and are blindsided on the freeway by a drunk driver and in a second both are dead.

I agree. We appear to disagree on the understanding of sin and predestination in general].

Before I answer your post, I feel we should clear up the differences in our understanding in sin and predestination in general.

Your above example may shed light on the differences of our understanding.
The way I understand your example:

He was a good Catholic and he was in the state of grace.
He has made a wrong choice and he is not in the state of grace any longer.
By an accident he has died outside the state of grace and as the result he ended up in hell.

It is a good example and can prove many things. So, I’m not exactly sure what you intend to prove with it.

Your view on the following statements might clear up our different understanding on predestination and shed light on what exactly you intend to prove with the above example.

a. It is regardless that we are among the predestined to heaven or we are among the predestined to grace.
Our final destiny in heaven is not assured until we die in the state of grace.

b. It is regardless that we are among the predestined to heaven or we are among the predestined to grace.
We still can die in the state of grace and end up in heaven or we still can die outside of the state of grace and we are end up in hell.

c. Those who are predestined to heaven, cannot die outside the state of grace and those who are predestined to grace cannot die in the state of grace.

d. We can do supernatural merit only when we are in the state of grace, but we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation because our salvation is a free gift of God paid in FULL by Christ’s merit on the cross.

One question:
What do you think Steve, What is the point when God gives His gift of everlasting life to the predestined to heaven, at their baptism or at the point when they die in the state of grace?

I feel your view on the above four statements and your answer of the above question will shad light on our different understanding of God’s predestination in general.

When I will read your view on my statements a, b, c, d, and your answer of my question;

I will also write my view on the above statements and I will also give the answer to my above question. Then we will know the differences in our views in sin and predestination.

I will also answer all your questions, including your statement on Mary.

God bless.

Christian

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

In my opinion: Your post Fr of Jazz is the most clear and a most educational post on the subject.

In order to understand SUPERNATURAL MERIT which is: “Works done by virtue of faith and given by grace (this includes those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.) [These are faith working itself out through love.]”

Also in order to understand BAD WORKS (wood, hay, straw 1 Cor.3:11-15) that God rejects which is: “Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc., if done this way). [These are attempts at self-justification]”

We must know the RCC teaching on the CONDITIONS to be QUALIFIED to do SUPERNATURAL MERIT, which are as follows:

The CONDITIONS must be present to make supernatural merit possible:
“The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

Justification in Catholic Teaching by Jimmy Akin . . .

For example:
HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier . . .

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become righteous and be saved? We are NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.
Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION
by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church. . . .
In my opinion: Any Christian, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant, who believes the above teaching of the RCC qualified to do supernatural merit and if he dies in the state of grace he can go to heaven with abundant supernatural merit.

They don’t go to heaven by “grace alone,” “faith alone” and SOLELY on account of the work of Christ” BECAUSE they go to heaven with abundant supernatural merit as well.

I also believe; those who are working to avoid hell, (if they die in the state of grace) they go to heaven “grace alone,” “faith alone” and “SOLELY on account of the work of Christ” (Rom.4:5; Rom.4:25; rom.5:18; 1 Cor.3:15; etc.) BECAUSE all their “Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.), are works attempts of self-justification]” and at the judgment rejected by God (1 Cor.3:11-15).

Again, one has to take into account all that the Church teaches–not just wht theological writers say–to uncover what the RCC believes. Let’s take the Catechism of the Catholic Faith, which you should be citing more than individual theologians.

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:
“When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.” (Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, Chap. 5)
[see also “Lutherans do not deny that a person can reject the working of grace.” (*Lutheran-Catholic Joint Declaration on Justification, 4.1.21)]

2006 The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

The point is that if one were to consider Justification, the CC does not view them as thinking: “It’s a grace I can only receive. I’ll wait and see what happens.”

 

[steve_b]

I agree. We appear to disagree on the understanding of sin and predestination in general].

Your above example may shed light on the differences of our understanding.
The way I understand your example:

He was a good Catholic and he was in the state of grace.
He has made a wrong choice and he is not in the state of grace any longer.
By an accident he has died outside the state of grace and as the result he ended up in hell.

It is a good example and can prove many things. So, I’m not exactly sure what you intend to prove with it.

The article at the bottom of the page will show you where we differ
C:

Your view on the following statements might clear up our different understanding on predestination and shed light on what exactly you intend to prove with the above example.

a. It is regardless that we are among the predestined to heaven or we are among the predestined to grace.

The article at the end of the page will give you the answer
C:

Our final destiny in heaven is not assured until we die in the state of grace.

again, it’s spelled out in the article at the end of the page
C:

b. It is regardless that we are among the predestined to heaven or we are among the predestined to grace.
We still can die in the state of grace and end up in heaven or we still can die outside of the state of grace and we are end up in hell.

again, Please read the article at the end of the page. You’ll get the answer there.
C:

c. Those who are predestined to heaven, cannot die outside the state of grace and those who are predestined to grace cannot die in the state of grace.

d. We can do supernatural merit only when we are in the state of grace, but we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation because our salvation is a free gift of God paid in FULL by Christ’s merit on the cross.

One question:
What do you think Steve, What is the point when God gives His gift of everlasting life to the predestined to heaven, at their baptism or at the point when they die in the state of grace?

I feel your view on the above four statements and your answer of the above question will shad light on our different understanding of God’s predestination in general.

When I will read your view on my statements a, b, c, d, and your answer of my question;

Please read the following
Predestinarianism

 

[Christian50]

Again, one has to take into account all that the Church teaches–not just what theological writers say–to uncover what the RCC believes. Let’s take the Catechism of the Catholic Faith

, 4.1.21)]

2006 The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

I really like your above citing Fr of Jazz.
It is an important truth that everyone should know.

B]2010

Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

I have collected some more of the same kind of teaching from the CCC and from RCC.

[CCC 1821] “In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere ‘to the end’ and to OBTAIN THE JOY OF HEAVEN, as God’s ETERNAL REWARD FOR THE GOOD WORKS accomplished with the grace of Christ.”

[CCC 2027] “No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we CAN MERIT for ourselves and for others ALL THE GRACES NEEDED TO ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE, as well as necessary temporal goods.

Quote: Apologetics and Catholic Doctrines 2001 Edition.
Page 444
“The just man BY GOOD WORKS TRULY MERITS ETERNAL LIFE, an increase of Sanctifying Grace and of glory hereafter.”

Key phrases in the above teaching:

a. We can MERIT for OURSELVES and for OTHERS the GRACES needed for our sanctification.

b. We can obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal REWARD for our good WORKS.

c. We can MERIT for ourselves and for others all the GRACES needed to ATTAIN ETERNAL LIFE.

d. The just man BY GOOD WORKS TRULY MERITS ETERNAL LIFE.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Let’s see the above teaching in the light of the fullness of the truth:

CONDITIONS to be QUALIFIED to be able to achieve merit: (For example.)
a. “It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.”

b. “Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

As we see above: We can merit only after being in the state of grace/saved, or friendship with God (post-baptism).

It is clear: Our salvation PRECEDES our merit.
First we have to be saved then after our salvation we can merit. IF WE ARE QUALIFIED to do supernatural work/merit.

Those who are working to avoid hell, all their “Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.), are works attempts of self-justification]” and at the judgment rejected by God (1 Cor.3:11-15).

God does NOT provide grace for anyone to faithlessly work for His free gift of salvation.
We can receive God’s free gift of EVERLASTING LIFE (this GIFT is NOT a periodical life and death) in ONE WAY; faith only or NOT at all, because there is no other way of salvation!

Someone may ask the question: Why there is no other way of salvation?

Answer; Because of the following theological FACTS:

a. Our salvation PRECEDES our supernatural work/merit.

b. God’s grace also PRECEDES our supernatural work/merit.

c. God’s grace is an UNMERITED FAVOR of God. – Through Christ, by faith only, we can obtain God’s grace, but we can NEVER merit it! (Rom.4:4; Rom.5:1-2; Rom.11:6).

For the above reasons; NO ONE ever can merit the grace of God or his salvation.
Both are God’s FREE gifts for us! Our salvation and God’s grace are NOT commodities! God provides for us by faith only and even our faith is God’s free gift for us.

Our faith is God’s extra special gift, because God provides what he requires. – If we allow the devil to steel it from us, he will take us to hell with him.
He tries to steel our faith and our supernatural merit more then anything else.

St. Augustine, De Gratia et Libero Arbitrio 16, 32:
“It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … It is certain that we act when we act; but he brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS to the will.”

Canon 18 from the 2nd Council of Orange, or 191, reads:
“That GRACE IS PRECEDED NO MERITS. A reward is due for good works, if they are performed; GRACE, which is NOT due, PRECEDES, that they maybe done” [St. Prosper].

Lutheran-Catholic Joint Declaration on Justification:
4.4/28 “We confess together that in baptism the Holy Spirit unites one with Christ, justifies, and truly renews the person.
But the justified must all through life constantly look to God’s UNCONDITIONAL justifying grace.”

4.5/31 “We confess together that persons are justified by FAITH in the gospel “APART from works prescribed by the law” (Rom.3:28).

4.7/38 “According to CATHOLIC understanding, for good works … reward IN heaven is promised to these works.
Justification ALWAYS remains the UNMERITED GIFT OF GRACE.”

CONCLUSION

Salvation PRECEDES our good works/supernatural merit.

God’s grace PRECEDES our good works/supernatural merit.

For a human person, to merit salvation/work for salvation or to merit God’s grace is an absolute theological impossibility.

Paul also says in Rom.11:6; (Jerusalem Bible.)
“By grace, you notice, nothing therefore to do with good deeds, or grace would not be grace at all!”

I speaking only those who are God’s elects to heaven.

Of course according to RCC teaching apart from the predestined to heaven, everyone else will end up in hell because of their rejection of the grace of God.

At our baptism we are saved and our salvation is COMPLETED. If we die the next second after our baptism, we go instantly to heaven in heavenly glory.
If our salvation would not be completed at baptism, we could not go instantly to heaven.

As our salvation is God’s free gift and completed at baptism, we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

From our baptism on [if we are qualified by faith (It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY, etc.)] all our works is supernatural merit and God rewards it in heaven.

Jimmy Akin sums up very well the conditions of supernatural merit in his work; Justification in Catholic Teaching.

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote.

Lutheran-Catholic Joint Declaration on Justification:
3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT it any way.

3/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the justified PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of FAITH is NEITHER the basis of justification nor merits it.

The correctness of a teaching can be tested easily as follows;

In my opinion, the litmus test is:
We ask the question: Is this teaching giving me the green light to do supernatural work/merit or gives me the red light and prevents me to do supernatural work/merit?

To be qualified to do supernatural work/merit:

Work MUST BE done out of love and gratitude to God and for His Glory, NOT for our interest! – Our salvation is God’s free gift, we don’t need to work for God’s free gift.
God doesn’t provide His grace for faithless works which done to obtain His free gift of salvation!

Those who are working to avoid hell/for salvation (red light – not qualified), all their “Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.), are works attempts of self-justification]” and at the judgment rejected by God (1 Cor.3:11-15).

What do you think Fr of Jazz; the teaching of “temporal punishment” and all those teachings involved with it; such as The "Church treasure of graces” and the “indulgences” to obtain these graces, gives us the green light to do our works out of sheer love and gratitude to God and for His Glory or gives us the red light, and we must work for our own interests?

Do you think Fr of Jazz, CCC 2010, 1821, 2027 and the Apologetics and Catholic Doctrines 2001 Edition; Page 444
“The just man BY GOOD WORKS TRULY MERITS ETERNAL LIFE, an increase of Sanctifying Grace and of glory hereafter,” helps us to answer the above question?

I ask a favor from you Fr. of Jazz, as I believe the following post is correct, I still like to have your opinion on it.

The post as follows:

Quote: Nothing at all can remove a person from the Body of Christ.

ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

Thank you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

 

[fhansen]

Let’s see the above teaching in the light of the fullness of the truth:

CONDITIONS to be QUALIFIED to be able to achieve merit: (For example.)
a. “It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.”

b. “Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

As we see above: We can merit only after being in the state of grace/saved, or friendship with God (post-baptism).

It is clear: Our salvation PRECEDES our merit.
First we have to be saved then after our salvation we can merit. IF WE ARE QUALIFIED to do supernatural work/merit.

Those who are working to avoid hell, all their “Faithless, graceless works of any kind (this includes those of the Law and those under the new covenant; communion, confession, etc.), are works attempts of self-justification]” and at the judgment rejected by God (1 Cor.3:11-15).

God does NOT provide grace for anyone to faithlessly work for His free gift of salvation.
We can receive God’s free gift of EVERLASTING LIFE (this GIFT is NOT a periodical life and death) in ONE WAY; faith only or NOT at all, because there is no other way of salvation!

Someone may ask the question: Why there is no other way of salvation?

Answer; Because of the following theological FACTS:

a. Our salvation PRECEDES our supernatural work/merit.

b. God’s grace also PRECEDES our supernatural work/merit.

c. God’s grace is an UNMERITED FAVOR of God. – Through Christ, by faith only, we can obtain God’s grace, but we can NEVER merit it! (Rom.4:4; Rom.5:1-2; Rom.11:6).

For the above reasons; NO ONE ever can merit the grace of God or his salvation.
Both are God’s FREE gifts for us! Our salvation and God’s grace are NOT commodities! God provides for us by faith only and even our faith is God’s free gift for us.

Our faith is God’s extra special gift, because God provides what he requires. – If we allow the devil to steel it from us, he will take us to hell with him.
He tries to steel our faith and our supernatural merit more then anything else.

St. Augustine, De Gratia et Libero Arbitrio 16, 32:
“It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … It is certain that we act when we act; but he brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS to the will.”

Canon 18 from the 2nd Council of Orange, or 191, reads:
“That GRACE IS PRECEDED NO MERITS. A reward is due for good works, if they are performed; GRACE, which is NOT due, PRECEDES, that they maybe done” [St. Prosper].

Lutheran-Catholic Joint Declaration on Justification:
4.4/28 “We confess together that in baptism the Holy Spirit unites one with Christ, justifies, and truly renews the person.
But the justified must all through life constantly look to God’s UNCONDITIONAL justifying grace.”

4.5/31 “We confess together that persons are justified by FAITH in the gospel “APART from works prescribed by the law” (Rom.3:28).

4.7/38 “According to CATHOLIC understanding, for good works … reward IN heaven is promised to these works.
Justification ALWAYS remains the UNMERITED GIFT OF GRACE.”

CONCLUSION

Salvation PRECEDES our good works/supernatural merit.

God’s grace PRECEDES our good works/supernatural merit.

For a human person, to merit salvation/work for salvation or to merit God’s grace is an absolute theological impossibility.

Paul also says in Rom.11:6; (Jerusalem Bible.)
“By grace, you notice, nothing therefore to do with good deeds, or grace would not be grace at all!”

I speaking only those who are God’s elects to heaven.

Of course according to RCC teaching apart from the predestined to heaven, everyone else will end up in hell because of their rejection of the grace of God.

At our baptism we are saved and our salvation is COMPLETED. If we die the next second after our baptism, we go instantly to heaven in heavenly glory.
If our salvation would not be completed at baptism, we could not go instantly to heaven.

As our salvation is God’s free gift and completed at baptism, we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation.

Continued

Reread Para 1993. Man can reject the grace that precedes conversion. God doesn’t force His will upon man; “predestination”, of the “elect”, is still based on man’s free choices and God’s foreknowledge of them.