Are you 50ish?

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Sirach2 said:
I don’t look for this to have a good end, for other threads elsewhere on the forum eventually wound up being deleted or closed.
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Typically because folks can’t stay on topic. :rolleyes:

This thread was never about RCTV, or Voris. And OP even tried to get it back on topic once, but you ignored that request.
Dirt said:
First off, i threw this out to get some thoughts from those of us who grew up through the changes and what has followed, not to debate Mike Voris. Secondly I did not hear in his piece anything degrading the OF as a Mass, just the level of license taken since the promulgation of the OF in the early 70’s and the decline in solemnity and sacredness in the Mass as a whole. Jeez guys, can we not discuss issues without turning everything into a personal attack on certain individuals? Remember Charity? And Calumny?

Pax Christi
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~Liza
 
I think anyone who would dare call Voris mentally ill, has had the fortune of never having to know a mentally ill person. More Catholics should have his “zeal” and “brash” energy for God. Lukewarm Catholics are as much to blame for loss of Catholics as Vatican II is. Protestants pulls Catholics away through zeal and brash evangelizing.
 
Liza, you have an extremely vested interest in anything “Voris” and you search the forums daily to be sure and catch everything that is posted. What you fail to consider is that whenever a public personage has their material being presented, as it was in this thread, it is going to involve discussing the author’s views. You may not like that, but it is unavoidable.

The OP did not present topical data pulled from the video to draw out our feelings or ask questions on the material, but he posted only the video link, leaving the door wide open. While your anger is directed to me personally, tima and again, you failed to notice in this thread and in others, that the feelings of many members besides myself are very much in dismay concerning his presentations.
 
Sirach2 said:
Liza, you have an extremely vested interest in anything “Voris” and you search the forums daily to be sure and catch everything that is posted.
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LOL!! That’s really quite funny! I’m not retired, I don’t have that kind of time. 😉 I just happened to see this pop to the top of new threads for today and took a look. I had no idea this discussion had anything to do with RCTV until I read it - no searching required.

:rolleyes:

EDIT: I’m done here. Ya’ll have at it. I’m only sorry this got pulled so far off topic. For what it’s worth - I’m 46, and I remember my father telling me (who served the Latin Mass as a boy) that once the Church changed the Mass, he never went back because it just didn’t feel like Mass anymore, it was like going to a Protestant service. Until a recent MASSIVE reversion a few years ago. Now he’s afraid to go to a EF Mass because he fears he will just miss it so much that the OF Mass will just not feel right to him.

~Liza
 
Tigg said:
It’s really quite simple. By their fruits you shall know them. Since VII, we have seen a huge loss of faith centering around the Source and Summit, the Eucharist, a loss of Catholic identity, an abandonment of the sacred mysteries, “Catholics” living in sin, but receiving the Sacred, unprecedented error and ignorance of the True Faith, and a political “takeover” of much of what poses as church teaching.

**By their fruits you shall know them. **
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👍 I grew up before V2. No one, no one strolled past the tabernacle talking, as if nothing was there. It is difficult for me to witness this. Yes, it’s simple for me too - by their fruits…
 
lizaanne said:
once the Church changed the Mass, he never went back because it just didn’t feel like Mass anymore, it was like going to a Protestant service.
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Exactly the same thing happened to at least half of the Catholic side of my family.

When I was a boy, I usually went to mass by myself.
 
Warrenton said:
Exactly the same thing happened to at least half of the Catholic side of my family.

When I was a boy, I usually went to mass by myself.
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I tend to believe that we have been punished by God because the changes of the Worship to Him. Today, the priest instead of looking to God, he is looking at the people. the people can do not for the priest, only God can. many still demand that the priest should look at them and not God.
 
wisdomseeker said:
I tend to believe that we have been punished by God because the changes of the Worship to Him. Today, the priest instead of looking to God, he is looking at the people. the people can do not for the priest, only God can. many still demand that the priest should look at them and not God.
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👍 Wisdomseeker.

Mississippi Bishop Latino’s statement should give us all pause as to mission of the Church? Is it politics or sheperding their flocks ? Truth is truth… and they should have stood with the Baptists on this one ! LIFE FROM CONCEPTION !!!

Above is the kind of thing Michael Voris is talking about.:yup:
 
wisdomseeker said:
I tend to believe that we have been punished by God because the changes of the Worship to Him. Today, the priest instead of looking to God, he is looking at the people. the people can do not for the priest, only God can. many still demand that the priest should look at them and not God.
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Mass facing facing tword the people is not new. It is a centuries old organically Catholic practice from the conventual Mass celebrated by many religious orders.

***Augustinians, Franciscans, Cistercians and Trappists have an old tradition of celebrating the conventual mass ad populum, because it met the liturgical needs of the religious community. In those days they were called “customs”. Today, we call them “forms”. Customs or forms, the fact remains that this was not new to Roman Catholicism.

Most conventual altars were built so that you could walk around them. There would be a solid pedestal type altar for the tabernacle. The Franciscans had it behind the main altar. Other convents had it in a side chapel adjacent to the sanctuary. This arrangement made it easier to bring the fraternity together.

Read more here…*
**

Celbrating Mass ad populum was done hundreds of years ago by some of the most faithful and reverant saints in some of the oldest orders in existence. It is not a new delelopment but a centuries old tradition.

-Tim-
 
Sirach2 said:
No? It is rather subtle, but who do you believe he is referring to when he uses the label “modernists?” The laity? Warrenton, it is not necessary for me to defend my words, for his own videos all over the internet [not just this thread] convict him more surely than I need to say. He is a very sick puppy that is becoming more and more rabid in his attacks on the Church and it will eventually be his undoing unless he converts. Do you think he lives in the joy and peace of the Spirit?
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Sounds like a pretty good dance, Warrenton. I’m not participating, for it would only produce more of the same. 😛
 
Sirach2 said:
Sounds like a pretty good dance, Warrenton. I’m not participating, for it would only produce more of the same. 😛
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This response surprised me - I expected you to say that your agreed that what basically happens is that our mutual recollections prompt differing responses.

If I like turkey, and you hate turkey, then our recollection of Thanksgiving, while identical in terms of subject, will be radically different in terms of emotional response.

Now, however, I perceive that you go much farther than I thought you did. You take the extreme position that no one may critisize actions ocurring within the Church, or question whether the reasoning of members of the Church are or are not prudent.
 
Warrenton said:
This response surprised me - I expected you to say that your agreed that what basically happens is that our mutual recollections prompt differing responses.

If I like turkey, and you hate turkey, then our recollection of Thanksgiving, while identical in terms of subject, will be radically different in terms of emotional response.

Now, however, I perceive that you go much farther than I thought you did. You take the extreme position that no one may critisize actions ocurring within the Church, or question whether the reasoning of members of the Church are or are not prudent.
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I think some people try to read too much into the comments of others.
 
TimothyH said:
Mass facing facing tword the people is not new. It is a centuries old organically Catholic practice from the conventual Mass celebrated by many religious orders.

***Augustinians, Franciscans, Cistercians and Trappists have an old tradition of celebrating the conventual mass ad populum, because it met the liturgical needs of the religious community. In those days they were called “customs”. Today, we call them “forms”. Customs or forms, the fact remains that this was not new to Roman Catholicism.

Most conventual altars were built so that you could walk around them. There would be a solid pedestal type altar for the tabernacle. The Franciscans had it behind the main altar. Other convents had it in a side chapel adjacent to the sanctuary. This arrangement made it easier to bring the fraternity together.

Read more here…***

Celbrating Mass ad populum was done hundreds of years ago by some of the most faithful and reverant saints in some of the oldest orders in existence. It is not a new delelopment but a centuries old tradition.

-Tim-
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Thank you!
 
TimothyH said:
Mass facing facing tword the people is not new. It is a centuries old organically Catholic practice from the conventual Mass celebrated by many religious orders.
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Yes and no. Most older Catholics do not remember mass said ad populum unless they attended a church, like Ravenna, that was built that way. Most of the churches were not built that way.
 
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