Are you a Christian or a Catholic

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ron77nyc said:
Catholics traditionally never called themselves Christians. They called themselves Catholics so Christians would be the non-Catholics believers. Why read any more than that into it? Every religion has its “name only” members.
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Not talking about name only members my friend. Not at all. I am speaking of some of the various sects floating around who call themselves Christians yet do not believe in the basic ideas of Christianity. I am sure you know which ones I am speaking of. There are quite a few of them.

As far as Catholics traditionally calling themselves Catholic we surely did:thumbsup: The fact that we are Christians is evident. Except to the protestants, who never really believed that we were in fact Christian
 
ron77nyc said:
tscnyc.org/
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Ah yes old David Wilkerson of " The Cross and Switchblade" fame.👍

An anti Catholic bigot with years of distaste and hatred towards the Catholic Church as a whole. In fact he claimed to have received a revelation from either God or the Holy Spirit, it depends who is telling the story, that in the future a new world religion will arise formed by the union of liberal ecumenical Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, who use the name of Christ only to further their blasphemies and sinfulness.👍

I think you need to seek out a new Church if you are going to stay away from the Catholic Church my friend. This ministry is a doozie.
 
palmas85 said:
Ah yes old David Wilkerson of " The Cross and Switchblade" fame.👍

An anti Catholic bigot with years of distaste and hatred towards the Catholic Church as a whole. In fact he claimed to have received a revelation from either God or the Holy Spirit, it depends who is telling the story, that in the future a new world religion will arise formed by the union of liberal ecumenical Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, who use the name of Christ only to further their blasphemies and sinfulness.👍

I think you need to seek out a new Church if you are going to stay away from the Catholic Church my friend. This ministry is a doozie.
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I’ve never heard him or any other pastor in that church talk like that. Maybe we could say that those are not the official teachings of his church. It was only the leader making a fallible statement which is acceptable because he is only required to speak the true faith when teaching faith and morality. His personal opinion is only his personal opinion.
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
I have heard this question more times than I can stand. It has finally begun to bother me to the point that it is becoming a problem for me. Even “good” Catholics have asked me this.

My question is this: Do you see a dichotomy, or even a break, in whether you are a christian or a Catholic? Also, what would you respond if asked the question “are you a christian first or a Catholic first?” I have gotten this from at least one Catholic and to me there is no difference. That is, to me, akin to asking someone “Are you a man/woman first or a human?”

Just trying to get other thoughts on this.

Pax

FSC
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I would ask them if they are christian or protestant. If they say christian, I ask for name of church and then response with…so your protestant.
 
ron77nyc said:
I’ve never heard him or any other pastor in that church talk like that. Maybe we could say that those are not the official teachings of his church. It was only the leader making a fallible statement which is acceptable because he is only required to speak the true faith when teaching faith and morality. His personal opinion is only his personal opinion.
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I recommend that you do a bit of research on this group that you are mingling with. It may not be exactly what you think it is. Hey it is up to you what you do, but I think it is better that someone be informed than to stay in the darkness.

If you have not heard him say this I believe you. The fact remains however that he did say it and presumably believes it.
 
ron77nyc said:
Catholics traditionally never called themselves Christians. They called themselves Catholics so Christians would be the non-Catholics believers. Why read any more than that into it? Every religion has its “name only” members.
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Eh… you haven’t read this thread, have you? 😉

There are those who suggest that Catholics are NOT Christians. Many people may not correct them because they think it’s no big deal… I mean, who would try to say Catholics are not Christians? But there are some who think we are NOT Christians. :rolleyes:
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
I have heard this question more times than I can stand. It has finally begun to bother me to the point that it is becoming a problem for me. Even “good” Catholics have asked me this.

My question is this: Do you see a dichotomy, or even a break, in whether you are a christian or a Catholic? Also, what would you respond if asked the question “are you a christian first or a Catholic first?” I have gotten this from at least one Catholic and to me there is no difference. That is, to me, akin to asking someone “Are you a man/woman first or a human?”

Just trying to get other thoughts on this.

Pax

FSC
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The Catholic Church was/is the first Christian Church that has ever existed, so I am usually a bit stunned when a non Catholic asks me if I am Christian. They don’t seem to know the History of the Catholic Church and in all liklihood possibly not even their own.😉 By the way, "Catholic/catholic means Universal. We are Universal Christians. How many other faiths can say that?
 
This is easy. I am an orthodox Catholic Christian. 😉

I think what you are talking about is when many people use “Christian” and “Protestant” interchangeably.
 
The question is a little bit inflammatory. The “or” implies that if you are Catholic, you are not a Christion.

However it’s a little bit like asking “Are you a beagle or a dog?”

Peace,
John Marie Philomena
 
“…And yet, my brother, be not troubled; Christian is my name, but Catholic my surname. The former gives me a name, the latter distinguishes me. By the one I am approved; by the other I am but marked.” - St. Pacian, Bishop of Barcelona, Epistles to Sympronian - 375 A.D.
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
I have heard this question more times than I can stand. It has finally begun to bother me to the point that it is becoming a problem for me. Even “good” Catholics have asked me this.

My question is this: Do you see a dichotomy, or even a break, in whether you are a christian or a Catholic? Also, what would you respond if asked the question “are you a christian first or a Catholic first?” I have gotten this from at least one Catholic and to me there is no difference. That is, to me, akin to asking someone “Are you a man/woman first or a human?”

Just trying to get other thoughts on this.

Pax

FSC
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Catholics ARE Christians! I don’t think a practicing Catholic feels that he or she is not a Christian. ‘Catholic’ identifies one as belonging to the one, holy, universal Church that Christ established on earth through His apostles. ‘Christian’ identifies who the Catholic follows in life: Christ, the Son of God and His teachings.
 
I’ve never understood that perspective either. Of course Catholics are christians. How could anyone think otherwise. At the same time, keep in mind that there are those in denominations that are protestant that refuse to be labeled as such. Some baptists sects will absolutely tell you that they are the of the original church and do not in any way shape or form feel the reformation has thing one to do with their existence.
 
Gosh, that annoys e. On one forum I get on, an entertainment-oriented one, I once got into a very long discussion over a post that went along the lines of, “but Catholics don’t really have anything to do with Christiantiy”. They didn’t mean it to be discriminating, just because they legitimartely thought Catholicism was a religion all to it’s own, having nothing to do with Christianity. I had to paaaatiently explain to them the concept of Catholicism in relation to Protestantism.
 
I converted from Protestantism.

I reply something along the lines of

I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in everything that is spelled out in the Apostle’s Creed. If they don’t know the creed I go through it with them. I close by stating I am Christian in the Catholic Church, the first Christian group and the original one established by Jesus Christ. If time persist I (with charity) encourage them to look into the history of the early Christians and see if it matches with their denomination or not. If even more time persists I start asking them where they think the Bible came from, if their ministers have Apostolic Sucession etc.
 
Lutheranteach said:
I’ve never understood that perspective either. Of course Catholics are christians. How could anyone think otherwise. At the same time, keep in mind that there are those in denominations that are protestant that refuse to be labeled as such. Some baptists sects will absolutely tell you that they are the of the original church and do not in any way shape or form feel the reformation has thing one to do with their existence.
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I have had Baptists tell me that their denomination was founded by John the Baptist, not Jesus Christ!!
 
I think I have discovered how Protestants always get away with this Argument
but also, that Roman Catholicism is the true Church, and even justify their own church.

The bible doesn’t specifically state that Peter and Paul were Baptised by Jesus of Nazareth. If you read their arguments they are all based upon a NON-Statement
by the Bible.

The Bible doesn’t state explicity that Jesus Baptised Peter and Paul.

Hence Protestants get away with argument against Rome being the One True Church, and
directly related to this is the very argument this thread is about, Is Roman Catholicism even Christianity?

See follow me on this, You pick up and read a Protestant argument against The Catholic Church to be the True Church of Christ. You sense something wrong with this argument but you can’t put your finger on it. That is because the whole argument is based upon a NON-STATEMENT IN THE BIBLE. The Bible doesn’t specifically state that Jesus Baptised Peter or Paul either one, in point of fact the Bible doesn’t specifically state that Jesus Baptised anyone but John the Baptist.

So lets look at it from a Theoretical Basis,
Peter and Paul go to Rome, but nowhere in the Scripture does it say specifically that Peter and Paul are baptised. That is all the ambiguity that the protestants body of argument rest upon when it comes to their church being valid and the Roman Catholic Church being invalid.

So an UNBAPTISED PETER AND PAUL go to Rome, only then can Roman Catholicism be invalid.

If the Bible specifically states that Peter and Paul are baptised, then Peter and Paul in Rome , gives and maintain the apostolic succession neccessary for Roman Catholicism to be a Valid Church.

Do you see?

If the Bible specifically stated that Peter and Paul were baptised , then the ambiguity is removed and there is no doubt that Rome is the True Church of God.

All Protestantism is rooted in this NON-STATEMENT by the bible.

That is why The Scriptures will Apparently support two Church’s, but no one can figure out why!!

I think it is fundamental to Martin Luthers first step out of the Catholic Church, that is the first place Martin Luther stepped when he exited the Roman Catholic Church, or was excommunicated if you prefer. Since RC is Scripturally and Doctrinely Complete, there is NO aspect of Scripture that isn’t implemented in RC, so Martin Luther is left No intellectual Path to follow, so his first step was on this Non-Statement by the Bible, It doesn’t say explicitly that Jesus of Nazareth Baptised Peter and Paul…

If Peter and Paul are explicitly baptised then ALL Humanity must admit that Roman Catholicism is Christendom itself… That is why this argument has been going on for 500 years. Incidently, the Bible Not-Stating explicitly that Jesus of Nazareth baptised any of the Apostles save John the Baptist is reflected exactly in Protestantism allowing members to remain unbaptised for years and years. That is how you get to there in Protestantism.

Benjamin
 
I have never had anyone actually pose this question to me, but two things immediately come to mind. 1. The older I get, the more I realize how much I can learn from the past, and I’m not just talking about my many stupid mistakes. I have a Webster Dictionary from 1950. I will post two definitions for Protestant.

protestant - During the Seventh century, an adherent of Lutheranism or Anglicanism; - not including, as later, Puritans, Presbyterians, and other dissenters.

protestant - Any Christians not of the Roman Catholic Church or the Eastern Church.

The only thing that I would question about the above definitions is, how can you call yourself a Christian if your not Catholic? Catholics have had this faithfully handed down to us from the Apostles, who are called “Christians” in Scripture.

I don’t think that most people are aware that there are between 40-60,000 different denominations worldwide today, that all have varying views on what Sacred Scripture means & have many different & varying views and beliefs. All of these people call themselves Christians. 40-60,000 is a pretty big number and thats just the denominations. Thats not counting the hundreds to thousands of people who are inside of these different denominations.
  1. “Satan wishes to sift you (meaning you all) like wheat, but Peter, I pray for you in unity.”
    40-60,000 is a pretty big number. Sift you like wheat indeed.
www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
 
I tend to agree that quoting some source regarding how many Protestant denominations there are is more along the lines of polemic than educational about orthodox catholic Christianity. The Truth is Christ and He founded His Church on the apostles and, in a special way, on Saint Peter–he who denied Him thrice and then still had difficulty with initially believing the LORD had arisen on Easter Sunday. I tend to think the vast majority of Protestants belong to Anglican/Episcopalian, Methodist, Church of Christ, Presbyterian USA (or PCA) any number of the thousands of independent Southern Baptist and Pentacostalist churches with their loose affiliations and then the Calvary Chapel groups. If you added all of those up in the USA alone, that would account for probably 90% of Protestantism. Most Pentacostal and Southern Baptist churches agree on most things and certainly as a means of distinguishing themselves from Catholicism (they will always add “Roman” to that, naturally). Be that as it may, there are a great many similarities of truth shared by all of the above groups with the Catholic Faith, but differing degrees of error. How to point all of that out charitably is a task for all Catholics, especially us recent converts. 🙂 I shall continue to try and do so in that vein. Pax tecum.
 
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