Are You Catholic? Consider this

[Saint_or_Not]

***Just as in natural and bodily generation there is a father and a mother, so in the supernatural and spiritual generation there is a father who is God and a mother who is Mary. All true children of God have God for their father and Mary for their mother; anyone who does not have Mary for his mother, does not have God for his father. This is why the reprobate, such as heretics and schismatics, who hate, despise or ignore the Blessed Virgin, do not have God for their father though they arrogantly claim they have, because they do not have Mary for their mother. Indeed if they had her for their mother they would love and honour her as good and true children naturally love and honour the mother who gave them life.

An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God’s true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus.

Pax Christi***:

 

[Todd_Easton]

There is a spiritual generation that does not require a mother, the eternal generation of the Son of God exclusively by God the Father.

The Church is also regarded as our spiritual mother. Galatians 4:26.

 

[Luke65]

***Just as in natural and bodily generation there is a father and a mother, so in the supernatural and spiritual generation there is a father who is God and a mother who is Mary. All true children of God have God for their father and Mary for their mother; anyone who does not have Mary for his mother, does not have God for his father. This is why the reprobate, such as heretics and schismatics, who hate, despise or ignore the Blessed Virgin, do not have God for their father though they arrogantly claim they have, because they do not have Mary for their mother. Indeed if they had her for their mother they would love and honour her as good and true children naturally love and honour the mother who gave them life.

An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God’s true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus.

Pax Christi***:

Very politically incorrect! I’m going to say… Saint! Am I understanding you correctly? Guess if this was said by a Saint or not? Well anyway, it must be added that:

“the situation of those, who by the heavenly gift of faith have embraced the catholic truth, is by no means the same as that of those who, led by human opinions, follow a false religion; for those who have accepted the faith under the guidance of the church can never have any just cause for changing this faith or for calling it into question.” (First Vatican Council, Ses. 3, Ch. 3)

 

[Saint_or_Not]

Actually the words are a Quote from St. Louis de Montfort’s Way:
Total Consecration. And has for politically correct, may I remind you “ALL” that the Kingdom of Heaven is No Democracy and neither is the Holy Catholic Church.
I only posted to alert those who can see by the replys who is a heretic and who isnt. If you make you own Bed why do you complain to lie in it.
The web site that “might interest” those who trully love Christ is fisheaters.com/totalconsecrationmontfort.html#book

 

[Saint_or_Not]

There is a spiritual generation that does not require a mother, the eternal generation of the Son of God exclusively by God the Father.

The Church is also regarded as our spiritual mother. Galatians 4:26.

Has you Drink Your Milk and eat your Toast quit ASSuming your salvation! :angel1:

 

[PJM]

***Just as in natural and bodily generation there is a father and a mother, so in the supernatural and spiritual generation there is a father who is God and a mother who is Mary. All true children of God have God for their father and Mary for their mother; anyone who does not have Mary for his mother, does not have God for his father. This is why the reprobate, such as heretics and schismatics, who hate, despise or ignore the Blessed Virgin, do not have God for their father though they arrogantly claim they have, because they do not have Mary for their mother. Indeed if they had her for their mother they would love and honour her as good and true children naturally love and honour the mother who gave them life.

An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God’s true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus.

Pax Christi***:

As a Certified Marian Catecheist, who has for quite a few years now dedicated my daily life to God through our Blessed Mother, I wish to thank you for your post.

I am ever amazed at the numbers of people who claim to bible literate, and then can ignore Luke 1:26-35

"In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, * the Lord is with you!” * 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30* And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31* And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33* and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” 34* And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” 35*** And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born * will be called holy, the Son of God. "**

Those that do not know, or do not accept this teaching do so at great spiritual peril, and miss great comfort and joy:thumbsup:

 

[Saint_or_Not]

As a Certified Marian Catecheist, who has for quite a few years now dedicated my daily life to God through our Blessed Mother, I wish to thank you for your post.

I am ever amazed at the numbers of people who claim to bible literate, and then can ignore Luke 1:26-35

"In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, * the Lord is with you!” * 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30* And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31* And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33* and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” 34* And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” 35*** And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born * will be called holy, the Son of God. "**

Those that do not know, or do not accept this teaching do so at great spiritual peril, and miss great comfort and joy:thumbsup:

***Moreover, Jesus is still as much as ever the fruit of Mary, as heaven and earth repeat thousands of times a day: “Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.” It is therefore certain that Jesus is the fruit and gift of Mary for every single man who possesses him, just as truly as he is for all mankind. Consequently, if any of the faithful have Jesus formed in their heart they can boldly say, “It is thanks to Mary that what I possess is Jesus her fruit, and without her I would not have him.” We can attribute more truly to her what Saint Paul said of himself, “I am in labour again with all the children of God until Jesus Christ, my Son, is formed in them to the fullness of his age.” Saint Augustine, surpassing himself as well as all that I have said so far, affirms that in order to be conformed to the image of the Son of God all the predestinate, while in the world, are hidden in the womb of the Blessed Virgin where they are protected, nourished, cared for and developed by this good Mother, until the day she brings them forth to a life of glory after death, which the Church calls the birthday of the just. This is indeed a mystery of grace unknown to the reprobate and little known even to the predestinate!

Thank You and God Bless you I hope these words bring you even more comfort.

Remeber Always these words --“I am Your Mother.”
Pax Christi
Saint or Not***

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

***Just as in natural and bodily generation there is a father and a mother, so in the supernatural and spiritual generation there is a father who is God and a mother who is Mary. All true children of God have God for their father and Mary for their mother; anyone who does not have Mary for his mother, does not have God for his father. This is why the reprobate, such as heretics and schismatics, who hate, despise or ignore the Blessed Virgin, do not have God for their father though they arrogantly claim they have, because they do not have Mary for their mother. Indeed if they had her for their mother they would love and honour her as good and true children naturally love and honour the mother who gave them life. ***

An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God’s true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus.

Pax Christi:

How can a human being indwell other human beings ? de Montfort is confusing​

• the Holy Spirit (Who does)
• & Christ (Who does)
• & the Father (Who does)
  with
• a mere saint (who does not).
  Mary cannot do in Christians what God does - this kind of monstrosity leads directly to monstrosities like the idea that she is received in the Eucharist.

Exaggerations like these do far more damage to the veneration of the BVM than all the objections made by non-Catholics - that there is hatred of it, is almost entirely the fault of Catholics; it is they who make it loathsome, by turning her into nothing short of a goddess. They are the real “enemies of Mary”. These monstrosities are utterly unnecessary, as well as wrong.

 

[Saint_or_Not]

How can a human being indwell other human beings ? de Montfort is confusing​

• the Holy Spirit (Who does)
• & Christ (Who does)
• & the Father (Who does)
  with
• a mere saint (who does not).
  Mary cannot do in Christians what God does - this kind of monstrosity leads directly to monstrosities like the idea that she is received in the Eucharist.

Exaggerations like these do far more damage to the veneration of the BVM than all the objections made by non-Catholics - that there is hatred of it, is almost entirely the fault of Catholics; it is they who make it loathsome, by turning her into nothing short of a goddess. They are the real “enemies of Mary”. These monstrosities are utterly unnecessary, as well as wrong.

***An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God’s true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus

I rest my case***.

 

[Pax]

How can a human being indwell other human beings ? de Montfort is confusing​

• the Holy Spirit (Who does)
• & Christ (Who does)
• & the Father (Who does)
  with
• a mere saint (who does not).
  Mary cannot do in Christians what God does - this kind of monstrosity leads directly to monstrosities like the idea that she is received in the Eucharist.

Exaggerations like these do far more damage to the veneration of the BVM than all the objections made by non-Catholics - that there is hatred of it, is almost entirely the fault of Catholics; it is they who make it loathsome, by turning her into nothing short of a goddess. They are the real “enemies of Mary”. These monstrosities are utterly unnecessary, as well as wrong.

Maybe and maybe not. I’m no expert on these writings, but I am aware that L.D.M loved to use flowery language. Moreover, you are entirely wrong to suggest that only the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God the Father can “indwell” someone depending upon what one might mean by the term. We all know that Satan and his minions can take hold of someone by demonic possession. We also know that Jesus in exorcising demons used some rather interesting language.

In Matthew 12:43-45 Jesus says:

“When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest, but he finds none. Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then he goes and brings with him seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. So shall it be also with this evil generation.”

My guess is that DeMontfort is not using the term “indwell” in the same sense as the “indwelling of the Holy Spirit”, and I’m certain that he is not speaking of it in the sense of possession as outlined by Jesus in Matthew 12. I’ve read some excerpts from both Ligouri and DeMontfort on Mary and have also read some excerpts on what they have to say about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The latter excerpts clearly separate their view of God from their views on Mary. If you think that they hold Mary on the same plain as God, then you need to do some reading. They clearly do not.

 

[Saint_or_Not]

How can a human being indwell other human beings ? de Montfort is confusing​

• the Holy Spirit (Who does)
• & Christ (Who does)
• & the Father (Who does)
  with
• a mere saint (who does not).
  Mary cannot do in Christians what God does - this kind of monstrosity leads directly to monstrosities like the idea that she is received in the Eucharist.

Exaggerations like these do far more damage to the veneration of the BVM than all the objections made by non-Catholics - that there is hatred of it, is almost entirely the fault of Catholics; it is they who make it loathsome, by turning her into nothing short of a goddess. They are the real “enemies of Mary”. These monstrosities are utterly unnecessary, as well as wrong.

***Here I turn to you for a moment, dear Jesus, to complain lovingly to your divine Majesty that the majority of Christians, and even some of the most learned among them, do not recognise the necessary bond that unites you and your Blessed Mother. Lord, you are always with Mary and Mary is always with you. She can never be without you because then she would cease to be what she is. She is so completely transformed into you by grace that she no longer lives, she no longer exists, because you alone, dear Jesus, live and reign in her more perfectly than in all the angels and saints. If we only knew the glory and the love given to you by this wonderful creature, our feelings for you and for her would be far different from those we have now. So intimately is she united to you that it would be easier to separate light from the sun, and heat from the fire. I go further, it would even be easier to separate all the angels and saints from you than Mary; for she loves you ardently, and glorifies you more perfectly than all your other creatures put together.

In view of this, my dear Master, is it not astonishing and pitiful to see the ignorance and short-sightedness of men with regard to your holy Mother? I am not speaking so much of idolaters and pagans who do not know you and consequently have no knowledge of her. I am not even speaking of heretics and schismatics who have left you and your holy Church and therefore are not interested in your holy Mother. I am speaking of Catholics, and even of educated Catholics, who profess to teach the faith to others but do not know you or your Mother except speculatively, in a dry, cold and sterile way.

These people seldom speak of your Mother or devotion to her. They say they are afraid that devotion to her will be abused and that you will be offended by excessive honour paid to her. They protest loudly when they see or hear a devout servant of Mary speak frequently with feeling, conviction and vigour of devotion to her. When he speaks of devotion to her as a sure means of finding and loving you without fear or illusion, or when he says this devotion is a short road free from danger, or an immaculate way free from imperfection, or a wondrous secret of finding you, they put before him a thousand specious reasons to show him how wrong he is to speak so much of Mary. There are, they say, great abuses in this devotion which we should try to stamp out and we should refer people to you rather than exhort them to have devotion to your Mother, whom they already love adequately.

If they are sometimes heard speaking of devotion to your Mother, it is not for the purpose of promoting it or convincing people of it but only to destroy the abuses made of it. Yet all the while these persons are devoid of piety or genuine devotion to you, for they have no devotion to Mary. They consider the Rosary and the Scapular as devotions suitable only for simple women or ignorant people. After all, they say, we do not need them to be saved. If they come across one who loves our Lady, who says the rosary or shows any devotion towards her, they soon move him to a change of mind and heart. They advise him to say the seven penitential psalms instead of the Rosary, and to show devotion to Jesus instead of to Mary.

Dear Jesus, do these people possess your spirit? Do they please you by acting in this way? Would it please you if we were to make no effort to give pleasure to your Mother because we are afraid of offending you? Does devotion to your holy Mother hinder devotion to you? Does Mary keep for herself any honour we pay her? Is she a rival of yours? Is she a stranger having no kinship with you? Does pleasing her imply displeasing you? Does the gift of oneself to her constitute a deprivation for you? Is love for her a lessening of our love for you?

Nevertheless, my dear Master, the majority of learned scholars could not be further from devotion to your Mother, or show more indifference to it even if all I have just said were true. Keep me from their way of thinking and acting and let me share your feelings of gratitude, esteem, respect and love for your holy Mother. I can then love and glorify you all the more, because I will be imitating and following you more closely.

As though I had said nothing so far to further her honour, grant me now the grace to praise her more worthily, in spite of all her enemies who are also yours. I can then say to them boldly with the saints, “Let no one presume to expect mercy from God, who offends his holy Mother.”

So that I may obtain from your mercy a genuine devotion to your blessed Mother and spread it throughout the whole world, help me to love you wholeheartedly, and for this intention accept the earnest prayer I offer with St. Augustine and all who truly love you.

Pax Christi ***

 

[thistle]

***Here I turn to you for a moment, dear Jesus, to complain lovingly to your divine Majesty that the majority of Christians, and even some of the most learned among them, do not recognise the necessary bond that unites you and your Blessed Mother. Lord, you are always with Mary and Mary is always with you. She can never be without you because then she would cease to be what she is. She is so completely transformed into you by grace that she no longer lives, she no longer exists, because you alone, dear Jesus, live and reign in her more perfectly than in all the angels and saints. If we only knew the glory and the love given to you by this wonderful creature, our feelings for you and for her would be far different from those we have now. So intimately is she united to you that it would be easier to separate light from the sun, and heat from the fire. I go further, it would even be easier to separate all the angels and saints from you than Mary; for she loves you ardently, and glorifies you more perfectly than all your other creatures put together.

In view of this, my dear Master, is it not astonishing and pitiful to see the ignorance and short-sightedness of men with regard to your holy Mother? I am not speaking so much of idolaters and pagans who do not know you and consequently have no knowledge of her. I am not even speaking of heretics and schismatics who have left you and your holy Church and therefore are not interested in your holy Mother. I am speaking of Catholics, and even of educated Catholics, who profess to teach the faith to others but do not know you or your Mother except speculatively, in a dry, cold and sterile way.

These people seldom speak of your Mother or devotion to her. They say they are afraid that devotion to her will be abused and that you will be offended by excessive honour paid to her. They protest loudly when they see or hear a devout servant of Mary speak frequently with feeling, conviction and vigour of devotion to her. When he speaks of devotion to her as a sure means of finding and loving you without fear or illusion, or when he says this devotion is a short road free from danger, or an immaculate way free from imperfection, or a wondrous secret of finding you, they put before him a thousand specious reasons to show him how wrong he is to speak so much of Mary. There are, they say, great abuses in this devotion which we should try to stamp out and we should refer people to you rather than exhort them to have devotion to your Mother, whom they already love adequately.

If they are sometimes heard speaking of devotion to your Mother, it is not for the purpose of promoting it or convincing people of it but only to destroy the abuses made of it. Yet all the while these persons are devoid of piety or genuine devotion to you, for they have no devotion to Mary. They consider the Rosary and the Scapular as devotions suitable only for simple women or ignorant people. After all, they say, we do not need them to be saved. If they come across one who loves our Lady, who says the rosary or shows any devotion towards her, they soon move him to a change of mind and heart. They advise him to say the seven penitential psalms instead of the Rosary, and to show devotion to Jesus instead of to Mary.

Dear Jesus, do these people possess your spirit? Do they please you by acting in this way? Would it please you if we were to make no effort to give pleasure to your Mother because we are afraid of offending you? Does devotion to your holy Mother hinder devotion to you? Does Mary keep for herself any honour we pay her? Is she a rival of yours? Is she a stranger having no kinship with you? Does pleasing her imply displeasing you? Does the gift of oneself to her constitute a deprivation for you? Is love for her a lessening of our love for you?

Nevertheless, my dear Master, the majority of learned scholars could not be further from devotion to your Mother, or show more indifference to it even if all I have just said were true. Keep me from their way of thinking and acting and let me share your feelings of gratitude, esteem, respect and love for your holy Mother. I can then love and glorify you all the more, because I will be imitating and following you more closely.

As though I had said nothing so far to further her honour, grant me now the grace to praise her more worthily, in spite of all her enemies who are also yours. I can then say to them boldly with the saints, “Let no one presume to expect mercy from God, who offends his holy Mother.”

So that I may obtain from your mercy a genuine devotion to your blessed Mother and spread it throughout the whole world, help me to love you wholeheartedly, and for this intention accept the earnest prayer I offer with St. Augustine and all who truly love you.

Pax Christi ***

I’ve just read through this thread and sorry but I must be missing something because I don’t get the point. You are simply copying and pasting.
Please tell me in your own words what you are trying to say.

 

[scpb2277]

i don’t necessarily disagree with what you are saying. but this does make the BVM out to be “idolized” don’t you think. i understand she is the Mother of God and that she is “full of grace” but this makes it seem like if you don’t accept Mary then you will never know the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

besides i don’t think any man should exalt himself and use his understanding that the Lord has blessed him with to turn around and judge others as heretics or “hardened sinners”. i doubt anyone woke up today as Holy as Our Lord and with his infinite wisdom as to know all things.

Matthew 7: 1-4
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out out of your eye’, when there is a log in your own eye?

And if you really feel such compassion about this conviction to spread the truth about the BVM then you should not be preaching at those who don’t have similar convictions. No one is impressed or moved to feel the same way as you from confrontation. Instead go forth with love and kindness. You can only tell them the truth, what God reveals to them is not something we can control.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Has you Drink Your Milk and eat your Toast quit ASSuming your salvation! :angel1:

Milk? Toast? You seem to be doing a little ASSuming of your own.

If you re-read my post carefully, you will see that I was not disagreeing with what was written in the OP concerning the spiritual maternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary but merely pointing out some things that were lacking in the argument as presented.

Or do you deny the spiritual generation of the Son of God by God the Father without a mother or that the Church is also regarded as our spiritual mother?

With respect to the spiritual generation of the Son of God by God the Father, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
242 Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is “consubstantial” with the Father, that is, one only God with him. The second ecumenical council, held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed “the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father.”
With respect to the Church also being regarded as our spritual mother, the Catechism says:
169. Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

 

[Saint_or_Not]

I’ve just read through this thread and sorry but I must be missing something because I don’t get the point. You are simply copying and pasting.
Please tell me in your own words what you are trying to say.

***This is not directed towards Thistle but I found this qoute interesting. This is more directed to Easton and Gottle–In simple terms. “You don’t get it cause you ain’t got it and you ain’t got it cause you havn’t asked for it.”
I can not give you what only Christ himself has the power to give. You profess to understand the things of our Lord and qoute the Catechism of the Holy church out of context and Spirit. Has for copy and paste, the only one you have been arguing with all this time is St. Louis de Montfort whom It was his devotion to Mary, for which he is most remembered. I only asked in this thread to “Consider” not argue. Since I assume you believe in communion of the Saints has you profess in your faith you might consider his intersesion to alow you the Grace to have an understanding of the Mystical Glory of the most Holy Mother of God. I must confess however it is somewhat interesting how defensive and quick to attack anyone who professes Mary Most Holy and her role in our salvation, is to say at the least, has telling has Satan trying to hide in a strip club. Ask yourself why is not the very Mother of God herself not an active part of your faith, and I bet you will find that you have either fooled yourself or forgot to surrender to the very Grace and Gift God is trying to bestow upon you, then you might begin to understand. You are only arguing with that that is within you.
Again keep this in mind, the Kingdom of Heaven is NO democracy. Try not to be so learned but rather be humble for humility in your faith is the true gold that you may cash in later.

:tsktsk: ***

 

[thistle]

***This is not directed towards Thistle but I found this qoute interesting. This is more directed to Easton and Gottle–In simple terms. “You don’t get it cause you ain’t got it and you ain’t got it cause you havn’t asked for it.”
I can not give you what only Christ himself has the power to give. You profess to understand the things of our Lord and qoute the Catechism of the Holy church out of context and Spirit. Has for copy and paste, the only one you have been arguing with all this time is St. Louis de Montfort whom It was his devotion to Mary, for which he is most remembered. I only asked in this thread to “Consider” not argue. Since I assume you believe in communion of the Saints has you profess in your faith you might consider his intersesion to alow you the Grace to have an understanding of the Mystical Glory of the most Holy Mother of God. I must confess however it is somewhat interesting how defensive and quick to attack anyone who professes Mary Most Holy and her role in our salvation, is to say at the least, has telling has Satan trying to hide in a strip club. Ask yourself why is not the very Mother of God herself not an active part of your faith, and I bet you will find that you have either fooled yourself or forgot to surrender to the very Grace and Gift God is trying to bestow upon you, then you might begin to understand. You are only arguing with that that is within you.
Again keep this in mind, the Kingdom of Heaven is NO democracy. Try not to be so learned but rather be humble for humility in your faith is the true gold that you may cash in later.

:tsktsk: ***

I’m a member of the Rosary Confraternity and I pray the Rosary daily. The Blessed Virgin is the Mother of God and should be honoured above all creatures. She cooperated with God in our salvation as we all cooperate with God in our salvation.

Obviously she is not divine, should not be worshipped. She is not part of the Holy Trinity nor should she become the fourth part of it.
No matter how strong our devotion to Mary it is not she but only God who can dwell within us.

Instead of being condescending to me tell me what it is you think Catholics do not believe about Mary. My impression is you think we are missing something out. Pleae don’t throw another quote to me. Have the courtesy to tell me in your own words. You might appear more credible that way.

 

[Saint_or_Not]

I’m a member of the Rosary Confraternity and I pray the Rosary daily. The Blessed Virgin is the Mother of God and should be honoured above all creatures. She cooperated with God in our salvation as we all cooperate with God in our salvation.

Obviously she is not divine, should not be worshipped. She is not part of the Holy Trinity nor should she become the fourth part of it.
No matter how strong our devotion to Mary it is not she but only God who can dwell within us.

Instead of being condescending to me tell me what it is you think Catholics do not believe about Mary. My impression is you think we are missing something out. Pleae don’t throw another quote to me. Have the courtesy to tell me in your own words. You might appear more credible that way.

***I am not being condescending towards you. Look again at the start of my last qoute. " This is not directed towards Thistle".

First of all since you ask, I owe nothing to any of you. Second my point is quite simple for those who have a brain. The thread started “Are you Catholic? Consider This” I posted a quote from St. Louis de Montfort for consideration

“An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God’s true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus”

And lo and behold the rest is history. You step right in it yourself and didnt consider anything but you, your being, your feelings, your point of view, and your interpretation of the faith. Has for me. I only find it interesting the way others and yourself have replied to this thread with the exception of only one, all replies have been contrary to the Holy Spirit, which is part my point. You profess special consideration becuse you are a member of the Rosary Confraternity, and pray the Rosary daily. It appears to me you yeild this has if it was some type of sword that should give you strategic position in argument of your beliefs, and like others you fall victim to the blindness caused by pride. Maybe you are just Saying your Rosary, and Not praying the Rosary, however I can not know whats in your heart, I can however judge ones action and ones words without judging their soul. So in final I will say this, my point is and always has been in regard to the thread I started. “Consider the quotes of St. Louis de Montfort”***
:newidea:

 

[Saint_or_Not]

Are you more learned than the Saints? Is not the word of a Saint to be considered more vaulable than that of a Catholic Chat Forum member? You said and I quote “No matter how strong our devotion to Mary it is not she but only God who can dwell within us” It appears you are at disagreement with a Saint.

 

[thistle]

Are you more learned than the Saints? Is not the word of a Saint to be considered more vaulable than that of a Catholic Chat Forum member? You said and I quote “No matter how strong our devotion to Mary it is not she but only God who can dwell within us” It appears you are at disagreement with a Saint.

Are you trying to say that Catholics are obliged to accept everything that St Louis de Montfort wrote?

We are not obliged to accept everything a saint has said.
Lots of saints have said things which are wrong or that contradict things other saints have said.

Look at St Thomas Aquinas. He did NOT believe in the Immaculate Conception. Does that diminish him in your eyes?

 

[Saint_or_Not]

***Still trying to justify your point instead of finding the Glory and Grace that comes from Our Mother of God. I said what I said and has for St. Aquinas he was profoundly devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary. His little known Marian thought has been gathered in a volume entitled Meditations by the Dominican, Fr. Mezard, O. P.

These selections, “taken verbatum from Aquinas”* Fr. Mezard tells us, were culled from the Summa, as well as from his Commentaries on the Hail Mary and the Gospel of St. John. They are arranged in the form of short readings to accompany the feasts and seasons of the liturgical year.

In the Marian prayer of St. Thomas, which is always God-centered and in relation to Christ, we find an emphasis on petition, as well as emphases on contemplation, and even mysticism. This brief paper will reflect these emphases in the light of Mary, mediatrix of grace, a title and function of Our Lady of current interest in the Church. It is a title and function which St. Thomas made his own and integrated into his life of prayer and study. St. Thomas taught that the Blessed Virgin Mary “must be shown every honor, preached and praised, and invoked by us in our every need.”

According to our Angelic Doctor, the Blessed Virgin Mary “was so full of grace that it overflows on to all mankind” and suffices for the salvation of the world. “It is necessary,” he says, "that whosoever desires to obtain favors with God, should approach this mediatrix, approach her with a most devout heart because, since she is the Queen of Mercy, possessing everything in the kingdom of God’s justice, she cannot refuse your petition."Making the thought of St. Bernard his own, St. Thomas reflects that no refusal can exist in the presence of the exceeding charity of her pierced and immaculate heart together with the pierced side and wounds of her Son. For St. Thomas, Mary is the throne of grace of whom "the Apostle speaking to the Hebrews said, ‘let us go with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace in seasonable aid’ " (Heb 4: 16).

In the mystery of the Incarnation the Lord himself entered " into the womb of the Blessed Virgin, for she was the wonderful temple of God. …[and now] every creature, yes even every malefactor who runs to it with his whole heart, will be saved and every prayer poured forth in it will be heard." Whatever our difficulty, Thomas counsels us to pray to Mary, “for in every danger you can obtain salvation from this glorious Virgin [and] in every work of virtue you can have Mary as your helper [for] she truly says of herself, 'I am the Mother of fair love, and of fear , and of knowledge, and of holy hope, in me is all grace of the way; in me is all hope of life and of virtue” (Ecclus 24:24).

St.Thomas, like the Fathers of the Church, saw numerous typologies of Mary in the Old Testament. Contemplating the text, “There shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a flower shall rise up out of this root” (Is 11: 1), St. Thomas saw Mary as the root wielding the true rod of saving grace. In another text, “Lift up the rod, and stretch forth thy hands over the sea, and divide it, so that thy children may go through the midst of the sea on dry ground” (Ez 14:16), St. Thomas says that it is Mary who has divided the sea for us, that is the world, so that we might pass safely through it." She “has brought to us the water of grace from the rock, Christ, so that we may drink freely of this life-saving water.”

And I think this prayer from St. Thomas says it all

"O most blessed and sweet Virgin Mary,
Mother of God, filled with all tenderness,
Daughter of the most high King,
Lady of the Angels,
Mother of all the faithful,
On this day and all the days of my life,
I entrust to your merciful heart my body and my soul,
all my acts, thoughts, choices,
desires, words, deeds,
my entire life and death,
So that, with your assistance,
all may be ordered to the good
according to the will of your beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. …
From your beloved Son. …
request for me the grace to resist firmly
the temptations of the world, the flesh and the devil. …
My most holy Lady,
I also beseech you to obtain for me
true obedience and true humility of heart
So that I may recognize myself truly
as a sinner–wretched and weak–
and powerless,
without the grace and help of my Creator
and without your holy prayers. …
Obtain for me as well,
O most sweet Lady,
true charity with which from the depths of my heart
I may love your most holy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
and, after Him,
love you above all other things. …
Grant, O Queen of Heaven,
that ever in my heart
I may have fear and love alike
for your most sweet Son. …

I pray also that, at the end of my life,
you,
Mother without compare,
Gate of Heaven and Advocate of sinners. …
will protect me with your great piety and mercy. …

and obtain for me, through the blessed and glorious Passion of your Son
and through your own intercession,
received in hope, the forgiveness of all my sins.
When I die in your love and His love,
may you direct me
into the way of salvation and blessedness.
Amen. "

The source campus.udayton.edu/mary/meditations/thomasaquinas.html**