Are you Catholic? Why or why not?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ChildofGod7
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
PRmerger:
There are quite a few ex-Catholics here who are abysmally ignorant about the Catholic faith. Despite all the qualifiers
“altar boy for 4 years!”
“taught by Sr. Mary Margaret Joseph in full habit!”
“went to Mass every day for 9 years!”
if you ask them even the most basic question about Catholicism they will get it wrong more often than not.
So you’ll have to forgive our skepticism about your catechesis, despite the “13 years of Catholic education”.
The Church has done a dismal job of providing nourishing truth for her flock in the past, so it’s probably not your fault. 🤷
On certian matters I’ve moved in the direction of your thinking more and more PRmerger. Those who are doing the same thing the wrong way for so long might be victims of the type of insanity defined as follows: Doing things the same way over and over again and expecting different results.
 
Just a quick question, though, wendit. Do you know where Scripture is recited in the Catholic Mass?
Is it during the liturgy of the word? How arrogant of you to question my knowledge of your precious “mass”. I simply disagree with you, but you charge me with ignorance! I nearly become sick at the sound of the word “mass”. I tire of hearing how beautiful, deep, spiritual, and others, all of which is pure brainwash. Absolutely nothing done in the “mass” is special. Any man alive could perform what the priest does, including the supposed transubstantiation, which is disgusting to think of actual flesh. Especially since Christ died once for all, not at every “mass”. Evidenced in 1 Peter 3:18 or Hebrews 9:28. Why cant anyone tell me the ratio of works to Jesus necessary for salvation? The Catholic church teaches works are necessary to earn salvation, so how much can we rely on Jesus? PRmerger what say you?
 
Is it during the liturgy of the word? How arrogant of you to question my knowledge of your precious “mass”. I simply disagree with you, but you charge me with ignorance!
Well, wendit, in this case you are indeed ignorant of the Mass. Your answer demonstrates this. Again, most likely not your fault. As I said earlier, the Church in the past did a very bad job of feeding her flock.

The Scriptures are found in the Mass, well, everywhere. Not just in the Liturgy of the Word. Practically every thing we recite, as well as what the Priest offers, comes from the pages of the Holy Book.
 
With regard to good works. Who does them?

John 15:5

4 Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing
 
Wendit, please calm down. This discussion will bear much fruit if you but let it.
God Bless and Peace.
 
Especially since Christ died once for all, not at every “mass”.
Again, this is evidence of your very poor catechesis. The Church proclaims that Jesus died “once for all” and does not die again at every Mass.

Actually, I think this is probably evidence of something that you were taught by an anti-Catholic. I’m guessing you never heard Sr. Mary Joseph Peter tell you that Jesus is sacrificed again at each Mass.
Evidenced in 1 Peter 3:18 or Hebrews 9:28. Why cant anyone tell me the ratio of works to Jesus necessary for salvation?
Here’s the ratio, wendit: both/and. 🙂
The Catholic church teaches works are necessary to earn salvation, so how much can we rely on Jesus? PRmerger what say you?
This, wendit, is another nail in the coffin of your proclamation that you know the Catholic faith.

Nowhere does the Church proclaim that we “earn” our salvation. Salvation is a free gift. That is Catholic dogma. 👍
 
The Catholic church teaches works are necessary to earn salvation, so how much can we rely on Jesus? PRmerger what say you?
Actually, wendit, here is how the Church proclaims we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)
 
Why don’t you post ALL that Trent says regarding salvation? It will be very apparent then that it does NOT square with what Scripture says regarding Salvation. Yet another reason why I am an Ex-Catholic.
Do you mean then, Omar, that you are an ex-Catholic by reason of the Council of Trent? I am a Catholic by the love of God, the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, and the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is reason all that binds you to your ex-Catholic religion?
 
I am a Catholic because it connects me to Christ…historically…spiritually…Biblically…physically…eternally.🙂
 
I never really had a strong faith, i knew god existed and that there was Jesus but never really put much thought into it. My dad side of the family are Catholics, my mom was a buddist then eventually went into Evangelical church. I ended up going Penecostal after i graduated from highschool. I ended up marrying my husband who’s family are all catholics. We did have lots of debate and i kept pressing that Catholics are not christians etc etc. We both dropped it after we got married for several years after our marriage until this past year. my MIL gave me a book called surprised by the truth and home sweet Rome and it just opened my eyes and heart in a different way and started reading more on Catholicism. There’s soo much history behinde the catholic church that i never knew of and i was able to learn more about God and Jesus that i wasn’t able to learn more about in a pentecostal church. So here i am today learning about the Catholic faith :).
 
Again, this is evidence of your very poor catechesis. The Church proclaims that Jesus died “once for all” and does not die again at every Mass.

Actually, I think this is probably evidence of something that you were taught by an anti-Catholic. I’m guessing you never heard Sr. Mary Joseph Peter tell you that Jesus is sacrificed again at each Mass.
Whether you like it or not, Catholics continually pretend to murder Jesus at every mass, but its okay because we say its in an unbloodied manner. Why isn’t the blood present if the flesh and blood are?
Here’s the ratio, wendit: both/and. 🙂

This, wendit, is another nail in the coffin of your proclamation that you know the Catholic faith.

Nowhere does the Church proclaim that we “earn” our salvation. Salvation is a free gift. That is Catholic dogma. 👍
“If any one saith, that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification).

As trent said: works increases righteousness = justification (meaning you earn salvation) -
I rest my case.
 
Whether you like it or not, Catholics continually pretend to murder Jesus at every mass, but its okay because we say its in an unbloodied manner. Why isn’t the blood present if the flesh and blood are?

“If any one saith, that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification).

As trent said: works increases righteousness = justification (meaning you earn salvation) -
I rest my case.
pretend to murder that funny,
your claim of no blood is even funnier.

yea of little understanding of the word increase if one has zero you can not increase that which is not there to increase. that which increases it is not the source of what it increases.
 
+JMJ+
How does the fact faith and human conscience are both gifts from God, have anything to do with our obedience to his teachings?
Oh…I would say everything.

Tell me, do you believe in Jesus Christ if you do not follow His teachings? Again, clue: read John 3:36
It amazes me that the Catholic church can so needlessly complicated the simplest terms to the point that you may need a priest to decipher. The Catholic definition of justification is a travesty against the simple truth that Jesus died for. The actual definition is much simpler: jus·ti·fied/ˈjəstəˌfīd/
Adjective:
  1. Having, done for, or marked by a good or legitimate reason: “the doctors were justified in treating her”.
  2. Declared or made righteous in the sight of God.
    Obviously in the context of our argument, we are using the second definition. And of course, justification is the fact of being justified.
😃 Exactly: look at what you typed: Declared or made righteous in the sight of God. To be declared righteous is definitely different from to be made righteous. It is all simple if the definition of being justified is just being declared righteous…but to be made righteous? That is a different ballgame altogether.

For to be made righteous not just means you are now called righteous, but you are righteous, i.e. you think righteously, you speak righteously, you do righteously…indeed, all of your being is made righteous.

THAT is what the Catholic Church means by justification, and all those extra words in the Catechism are clarifications on what that entails, because some people back in the 1500’s muddled it all up.
 
Whether you like it or not, Catholics continually pretend to murder Jesus at every mass, but its okay because we say its in an unbloodied manner. Why isn’t the blood present if the flesh and blood are?

“If any one saith, that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification).

As trent said: works increases righteousness = justification (meaning you earn salvation) -
I rest my case.
The point wendit, was… In truth it is not we who perform these works, but Chirst who lives in us. The body of Christ on earth. Christ does not need to earn salvation, he is the holy Spirit working in us through all things for our salvation.

Philippians 2:2

1 If there is any encouragement in Christ, any solace in love, any participation in the Spirit, any compassion and mercy,
2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, with the same love, united in heart, thinking one thing

If one delves into Philippians beyond this quote and you will read why we do not ‘obtain’ salvation, properly speaking. It is a gift. One does not obtain a gift. Is this a difference in English usage only, or something greater?
 
+JMJ+
What are you talking about?? The one liners may be cute to you but they serve no useful purpose for knowledge.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

WHAT?! You asked this question from a post of mine,
With which I answered with that, and now you are telling me my “one liners” are cute yet useless?! Oh my goodness you crack me up!

At least my “one liners” are HONEST TO GOODNESS SUGGESTIONS to read up on for examples of what I said. If you read up on St. Aquinas you would have learned that he brought out the best of Greek philosophy and made it Catholic. Heck, we could have St. Augustine for that too. And reading up on the Personal Ordinariate for Anglicans would have shown that we have made the best of Anglicanism ours, too.

Among other things.
 
+JMJ+
Whether you like it or not, Catholics continually pretend to murder Jesus at every mass, but its okay because we say its in an unbloodied manner. Why isn’t the blood present if the flesh and blood are?
That is so sadly ignorant of the teachings of the Catholic Church.
“If any one saith, that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification).

As trent said: works increases righteousness = justification (meaning you earn salvation) -
I rest my case.
Which is, of course, Biblical, as I have mentioned before.

However, I do wonder how could I even claim that I earned salvation if it was not me who works but grace that works in me?
 
Any man alive could perform what the priest does, including the supposed transubstantiation, which is disgusting to think of actual flesh. Especially since Christ died once for all, not at every “mass”. Evidenced in 1 Peter 3:18 or Hebrews 9:28. Why cant anyone tell me the ratio of works to Jesus necessary for salvation? The Catholic church teaches works are necessary to earn salvation, so how much can we rely on Jesus? PRmerger what say you?
sigh

This smacks of so much ignorance, I’m half-tempted to ignore this. But I will still attempt to somehow educate you.

Firstly, transubstantiation is backed up by the Bible. Read the story of the Last Supper.and it is quite clear by Jesus’ own words that the bread IS His body and the wine His blood. From the Catholic Answers tract on the Eucharist:

Fundamentalists insist that when Christ says, “This is my body,” he is speaking figuratively. But this interpretation is precluded by Paul’s discussion of the Eucharist in 1 Corinthians 11:23–29 and by the whole tenor of John 6, the chapter where the Eucharist is promised. The Greek word for “body” in John 6:54 is sarx, which means physical flesh, and the word for “eats” (trogon) translates as “gnawing” or “chewing.” This is certainly not the language of metaphor.

Secondly, priests are necessary as they represent Christ at the Mass, who is of course the High Priest. It is no different to the priests of the Old Testament who offered the necessary sacrifices each day in the Temple. In the Torah, it is quite plainly made clear that ONLY priests were to make sacrifices on the altar and even then according to strict laws on how this was to be done. Priests alone were also allowed to eat certain offerings from the Temple (when asked why HIs disciples were gathering corn on the Sabbath, Jesus replied that David and his companions had eaten bread from the Temple which only the priests could usually eat.)

As to faith and works, it’s been said time and time again that faith without works is not faith, and that works without faith are dead. Just as a tree produces seeds or fruit, faith and works go hand in hand, and works will naturally follow faith. Even something as simple as defending Christ is a ‘work’ as such.

Here’s a good little sermon on the subject of the good thief and whether he was saved by faith alone, which seems to be the usual argument: youtube.com/watch?v=_z-yr6hT3Hk

I’m not even Catholic (not yet anyway!) but I would never call the Mass disgusting or unBiblical. I’ve been highly moved by the Masses I’ve attended.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top