Are you pro-life or Republican first?

[iamrefreshed]

You should have a great future at the National Security Agency, 'cause you broke his code.

Shhh! I’m undercover

 

[vern_humphrey]

For what are you awaiting apologies?

For not believing what he believes, of course!

If you think the government is not your nanny, shame on you!

If you don’t consider the government is entitled to the fruits of your labor before you are, shame on you!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Of course they weren’t!

Did you think this thread is anything other than an exercise in branding some people as “bad” and others as “good” – without respect to their actual merits?

Are you assuming to read my mind, sir?

The purpose is to see what would happen if the compliance on the Big 5 issues were reversed and the Democratic Party was suddenly Big 5 complaint and the Republican Party was suddenly pro-abortion, etc. Get it?

In fact, I made it a secret ballot for the express purpose of preventing “good” and “bad” accusations.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Are you assuming to read my mind, sir?a

Why not? You presume to read other people’s minds all the time.

The purpose is to see what would happen if the compliance on the Big 5 issues were reversed and the Democratic Party was suddenly Big 5 complaint and the Republican Party was suddenly pro-abortion, etc. Get it?

It that was your purpose, your research design was fatally flawed.

In fact, I made it a secret ballot for the express purpose of preventing “good” and “bad” accusations.

Riiight.

 

[Ender]

The point of this thread and the poll is to find out whether Republicanism overrides pro-life.

And what have you discovered? Does it appear that Republicans will abandon their pro-life principles as readily as Democrats have?

Ender

 

[vern_humphrey]

And what have you discovered? Does it appear that Republicans will abandon their pro-life principles as readily as Democrats have?

Ender

What do you bet it confirms all his prejudices?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Why not? You presume to read other people’s minds all the time.

It that was your purpose, your research design was fatally flawed.

Riiight.

Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants, given 127 characters per question, how would you do it?

Here’s the way I was looking at this:

There are four possible options:

Would you vote fore:
Option 1: Big-5 Compliant, Republican economic/social package
Option 2: Big-5 Compliant, Democratic economic/social package
Option 3: Not Big-5 Compliant, Republican economic/social package
Option 4: Not Big-5 Compliant, Democratic economic/social package

Of course, on these rather right-wing boards, almost everyone would choose Option 1. What I want to do is see how important Big-5 compliance really is, beyond the usual rhetoric. That means removing the two status quo choices (options 1 and 4) and switching economic/social packages and Big-5 compliance (options 2 and 3). Now, did I word it badly? Sure. Given only 127 characters per poll question, it’s hard to put in everything I feel needs to be included.

I made it anonymous so people would feel free to answer honestly without fear of reprisal. You’re accusation is therefore moot because I don’t care how each individual voted, only that they voted and the results are honest.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants, given 127 characters per question, how would you do it?

I wouldn’t.

Why would I want to conduct a biased “study” designed to reinforce my own prejudices? When I conduct studies, I look for what the Army calls “intuition busters” – results that tell me my previous beliefs are wrong.

Here’s the way I was looking at this:

There are four possible options:

Actually, there are a great many possible options. The great flaw in your approach is to assume you know what the people you hate think.

You have lumped all your prejudices together, and assigned them to the group you hate – and call that a “study.”

 

[Sheeniac]

I’d vote pro-life. If both candidates were equivalent, I would look to the gun issue to decide my vote. Before I reverted (from atheism), I voted strictly on the gun issue.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I still think the problem is that it’s a false choice. It assumes the Dems act in one way and the Repubs in another, then adds on or subtracts the 5 and asks one to make a choice.

But the problem is that the Dems and Repubs do not necessarily act in the ways stated in the original premise, and their leading candidates certainly don’t. So one is forced into making a false choice. It’s more a matter of “Would you find this combination of imposed sterotypes more attractive than that one,adding or subtracting the 5 from each?” The abbreviated choice in the later post lets the responder come up with his own stereotypes, which might not have anything to do with reality.

I realize the difficulty in making a poll to determine how important the 5 are to people relative to other views they might have about other things (and there is overlap besides). I’m not sure it can be done successfully, given the limitations in the number of characters.

But I think the OP has his answer anyway, but to a different question. From the standpoint of the posters, I think the consensus answer is “abortion trumps all”.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I still think the problem is that it’s a false choice. It assumes the Dems act in one way and the Repubs in another, then adds on or subtracts the 5 and asks one to make a choice.

But the problem is that the Dems and Repubs do not necessarily act in the ways stated in the original premise, and their leading candidates certainly don’t. So one is forced into making a false choice. It’s more a matter of “Would you find this combination of imposed sterotypes more attractive than that one,adding or subtracting the 5 from each?” The abbreviated choice in the later post lets the responder come up with his own stereotypes, which might not have anything to do with reality.

I realize the difficulty in making a poll to determine how important the 5 are to people relative to other views they might have about other things (and there is overlap besides). I’m not sure it can be done successfully, given the limitations in the number of characters.

But I think the OP has his answer anyway, but to a different question. From the standpoint of the posters, I think the consensus answer is “abortion trumps all”.

First, thanks for acknowledging the difficulty in trying to do this.

Second, it’s not stereotypes. I’m going based on what people on either said have said. I even provided quotes from the Republican Party Platform from 2004. Even if there are stereotypes, considering the absolute hatred for Democrats I’ve read on this site, it’s not completely uncalled for to bring a little balance to the table.

 

[vern_humphrey]

First, thanks for acknowledging the difficulty in trying to do this.

Second, it’s not stereotypes. I’m going based on what people on either said have said. I even provided quotes from the Republican Party Platform from 2004. Even if there are stereotypes, considering the absolute hatred for Democrats I’ve read on this site, it’s not completely uncalled for to bring a little balance to the table.

In order to bring balance, one must be balanced.

 

[mark_a]

I strongly believe that Republicanism is an ideology based on the notions that a tax is the worst possible evil in the universe and that business can do no wrong. I also strongly believe that the Republican party added its “pro-life” plank in 1980 in order to garner the Christian vote but would jettison it if they thought they could win without it. Anyway, I’d like to see what would happen if the parties changed their views on morals issues ONLY.

I’m leaving the poll anonymous so no one has to feel they need to explain their vote to their fellows.

By the way, DP means death penalty and “Big 5” refers to the so-called 5 “non-negotiables.”

Its like you read my mind.

 

[rpp]

I posted this on another thread, but it is worth repeating.

This thread makes me sad. One can only feel sympathy for those who have suffered a very serious head injury.

http://bestsmileys.com/darwin/1.gif

 

[markomalley]

I strongly believe that Republicanism is an ideology based on the notions that a tax is the worst possible evil in the universe and that business can do no wrong. I also strongly believe that the Republican party added its “pro-life” plank in 1980 in order to garner the Christian vote but would jettison it if they thought they could win without it. Anyway, I’d like to see what would happen if the parties changed their views on morals issues ONLY.

I’m leaving the poll anonymous so no one has to feel they need to explain their vote to their fellows.

By the way, DP means death penalty and “Big 5” refers to the so-called 5 “non-negotiables.”

Not a realistic set of options. (Either all one way or all the other…no middle ground) So how can one vote in the poll?

 

[Miles_Mariae]

On the contrary, the lack of realism is a method of abstracting from the details and focusing on the essential: are people voting Republican because of the pro-life stance, or the other parts of the platform?

I have, of course, selected the Big Five as requisite for my vote. Regardless of how despicable and terribly stupid left-wing economics can be, I would rather have that than a government that allows murder.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

This is a childish poll. Why waste time with it?

CDL

 

[Ridgerunner]

Second, it’s not stereotypes. I’m going based on what people on either said have said. I even provided quotes from the Republican Party Platform from 2004. Even if there are stereotypes, considering the absolute hatred for Democrats I’ve read on this site, it’s not completely uncalled for to bring a little balance to the table.

I would agree that the Democrat party seems not to be favored by the majority on this site. But one has to ask why that’s so. For most, I think it’s a hatred of abortion, not of Democrats. For some, it’s exacerbated by a sense of being betrayed. I can’t answer for anyone beside myself, but I was a Democrat once myself; an organizer and an officeholder in the party. I remember well when the abortion lobby captured the party. I remember when, as a Catholic Democrat, you either had to openly compromise your faithfulness to the teachings of the Church or refuse to be a party to what they were doing. My wife (who was also a party officeholder) and I made our choices, though we fought it, and in a very serious way, as did others, but the abortionists won. As abortion on demand became a party absolute, the party became more and more leftward leaning, precisely because those who favored abortion also tended to be immoderate in other ways. I was there when that change took place, and I remember it well. And I wasn’t the only one, either. Not by a long way.

I confess that I resent what happened to the party. I resent the fact that favoring abortion is the absolute litmust test for the party. I resent it that the party no longer does anything for the poor or for working people, yet claims that it does. It’s living off its patrimony in that regard, like a dissolute generation that pretends to be straight when going to its parents for money. So, it would be fair to say that I resent what has happened to the party. It no longer exists in the way I knew it and in the way too many still think of it. I don’t hate Democrats. I do hate the fact that the party claims to be something it isn’t, and that many people believe it.

Most Catholics were once Democrats or the children of Democrats. It should surprise no one that, when the Democrat party effectively betrayed faithful Catholics, it would cause a certain amount of resentment. But that’s not the same thing as hate for Democrats themselves.

Lest you or anyone else misunderstand, I’m not a Republican, though I have been asked to run for office as a Republican. I guess I’m like Zell Miller in that way. It doesn’t feel natural to do it, and I still believe in the old Democrat principles notwithstanding that the Democrat party of today doesn’t.

If you want balance, let’s look at this the way it really is and get some real balance.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I was a Dem until 1996. The party’s break with common decency drove me out.

CDL

 

[Miles_Mariae]

I sided with Democrats until I converted to Catholicism and entered college. I became a social and economic conservative nearly simultaneously.