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Pattylt
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Thanks! I appreciate the detailed answer.
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Jbrady
Guest
Actual scientifically rigorous and meaningful data on membership and attendance is scarce as hens’ teeth for just about every religious group, not only the Catholic Church. The methodological problems are extremely difficult, prodigiously expensive and usually downright impossible to overcome.
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ChuckB
Guest
“Welcome to the Hotel California.”
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JerryZ
Guest
So perhaps a more “graphical” example can help you visualize what the members of the forum are trying to convey here when they state that “Baptism puts an indelible mark” in our souls.
If you have ever seen a cowboys movie there is this ritual they go through when the young calves have the proper age they are “marked” or branded with a hot iron that is shaped with the rancher’s symbol.
Unfortunately when slavery was practiced also men and women were so marked to signify they were the property of the slaves owner.
These kinds of marks are very hard to remove. One would have to “cut” the skin where the mark is located. This is why they are called “indelible” that is for all intent and purposes irremovable.
This is what the Baptism does to the human soul. It marks it as a member of the Church Christ founded. It cannot be erased. Believe it that there are many “Catholics” in Hell where they will spend eternity. Those who harm the Church and by extension the Body of Christ have special placed there.
Hope this helps.
If you have ever seen a cowboys movie there is this ritual they go through when the young calves have the proper age they are “marked” or branded with a hot iron that is shaped with the rancher’s symbol.
Unfortunately when slavery was practiced also men and women were so marked to signify they were the property of the slaves owner.
These kinds of marks are very hard to remove. One would have to “cut” the skin where the mark is located. This is why they are called “indelible” that is for all intent and purposes irremovable.
This is what the Baptism does to the human soul. It marks it as a member of the Church Christ founded. It cannot be erased. Believe it that there are many “Catholics” in Hell where they will spend eternity. Those who harm the Church and by extension the Body of Christ have special placed there.
Hope this helps.
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laylow
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laylow
Guest
I’m pretty sure I get the concept, but see it as nonsensical.
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
Don’t confuse the Catholic Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, with Churchmen. I saw this and hope it helps you:
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Out of the 12 Apostles, one betrayed Him (Judas Iscariot), one denied Him (St. Peter), the rest all fled, and only one (St. John) was at the foot of the Cross with Our Lady. 1/12 = 0.8333. Not exactly good odds for survival, but the Church has endured evil kings, emperors, empires, revolutions, and yes, bad popes (e.g. Honorius), bad bishops and bad priests.
The Catholic Church will get through this crisis and you will too if you stay with Her.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Out of the 12 Apostles, one betrayed Him (Judas Iscariot), one denied Him (St. Peter), the rest all fled, and only one (St. John) was at the foot of the Cross with Our Lady. 1/12 = 0.8333. Not exactly good odds for survival, but the Church has endured evil kings, emperors, empires, revolutions, and yes, bad popes (e.g. Honorius), bad bishops and bad priests.
The Catholic Church will get through this crisis and you will too if you stay with Her.
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Nicky777
Guest
His baptism leaves an indelible mark on his soul for all Eternity. But, he is no longer Christian because Catholics are the original Christians
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LawyersGunsAndMoney
Guest
That doesn’t make sense. Catholics are the original Christians, not the only Christians.
Orthodox and Protestants are still Christians, although this is kind of a moot point since I think OP is an atheist.
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Nicky777
Guest
If you are not Catholic now you will be if you make it to heaven. There is only one God and only one church, not different versions. Make no mistake my friend. Christ founded only one church, the Catholic church.
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Wesrock
Guest
Unless you expect a secular inquisition bursting into Churches, seizing baptismal records, and blacklisting everyone they find records for… I don’t think you need worry.LawyersGunsAndMoney:
Ok, I’ll give a one reason, even though I originally said I would refrain.
The Catholic church has admitted (correct me if I’m wrong) to the systematic cover-up of child abuse by priests in numerous parts of the world. This would classify them as a criminal organization. A person may wish to no longer have their name associated with such an organization.
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Wesrock
Guest
This isn’t what the Church teaches.
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LawyersGunsAndMoney
Guest
This is simply incorrect.
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Mike_from_NJ
Guest
One reason I am against the Church claiming me and other baptized people as Catholics is because it makes the Church seem to be larger than it actually is. When an article is published saying how many Catholics there are, it almost never mentions the fact that the count comes from the number of baptized and not the number of people who would simply say, “I am Catholic.”
If an SEC filing says that a company I might want to invest in says it has X customers, I expect it to mean that there are X people who have recently purchased a good or service from them relatively recently. I would not want it to mean that they estimate that there are X people on the Earth who have ever purchase a good or service from the company (including those people who were infants and had something purchased for them in the past).
It’s a simple fact that a group’s influence can sometimes be reflected in the number of people in that group. If non-profit Y says they are for or against someone, and there are a small amount of people in Y then people are less likely to take that position seriously than non-profit Z which has 10 times as many people.
By the Church saying it has a larger membership it claims a larger influence. When that membership number includes people who would shout from the mountaintops that they are not Catholic it’s at least a point of concern. Whenever a document quotes the number of Catholics in a parish, diocese, country, or the world and doesn’t make clear how it comes about it becomes deception by omission. Anyone not totally familiar with how that number is generated is naturally going to assume that number is from self-identified Catholics. If such deception is intentional then it breaks the 8th commandment.
If an SEC filing says that a company I might want to invest in says it has X customers, I expect it to mean that there are X people who have recently purchased a good or service from them relatively recently. I would not want it to mean that they estimate that there are X people on the Earth who have ever purchase a good or service from the company (including those people who were infants and had something purchased for them in the past).
It’s a simple fact that a group’s influence can sometimes be reflected in the number of people in that group. If non-profit Y says they are for or against someone, and there are a small amount of people in Y then people are less likely to take that position seriously than non-profit Z which has 10 times as many people.
By the Church saying it has a larger membership it claims a larger influence. When that membership number includes people who would shout from the mountaintops that they are not Catholic it’s at least a point of concern. Whenever a document quotes the number of Catholics in a parish, diocese, country, or the world and doesn’t make clear how it comes about it becomes deception by omission. Anyone not totally familiar with how that number is generated is naturally going to assume that number is from self-identified Catholics. If such deception is intentional then it breaks the 8th commandment.
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adf417
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TrueRomanCatholic
Guest
Once a member of Mother Church, always a member. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know the Truth that through Her, and Her glorifying of her Holy Spouse, they are saved.
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DeniseNY
Guest
Who teaches this?
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Nicky777
Guest
Protestants and all other so called Christian communities are in direct conflict with the Church. The one church in which Christ Himself founded. They do not have access to the Sacraments and subsequently the Grace necessary for Salvation. One God one Church. There is only one Faith in heaven not different versions of it.
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laylow
Guest
I usually hear it from Evangelicals, not Catholics (in the opposite fashion of course).
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TrueRomanCatholic
Guest
I’m one of the most faithful attendees of Mother Church that’s even in existence and to say Protestants aren’t Christian is an outrageous and filthy misrepresentation of Mother Church.
Even the Magisterium stipulates those outside the Church’s loving arms can be saved!
Those that believe in Christ are Christians. Period.
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