Are you under the CURSE of God?

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YAQUBOS said:
1. As you quote Jesus as saying that God is good, then do you think Jesus is not good?
  1. If it’s not essential to be perfect to get to Heaven, then why does the Apostle Paul say:
    “For the wages of sin is death” ( Romans 6:23 )
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” ( Romans 3:23 )

Love,
Yaqubos†
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Dear Yaqubos,
  1. This comment from Jesus about “Why do you call me good?” is interesting. I think Jesus tried to avoid being the object of Worship, but wanted to call us to come to the Father through Him. There are other examples of this, such as when John said he was not worthy to untie His sandals, or when Peter at first refused to let Jesus wash his feet. Jesus was truly a servant and even though He was God, He did not equate Himself to God.
  2. Look at the whole verse: “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
  3. Look at this verse along with the following verses:
Rom 6:23-26:
all have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God. They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as an expiation, through faith, by his blood, to prove his righteousness because of the forgiveness of sins previously committed, through the forbearance of God–to prove his righteousness in the present time, that he might be righteous and justify the one who has faith in Jesus.
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Again, though we do not deserve more than death, God gives to us.

I’m kind of curious about your questions and your style. The verses you are asking about sound a bit like the verses I often see in little tiny pamphlets with titles such as “Are You going to Heaven?” or “Are You under the CURSE of God?” Are you just beginning in your faith journey or experience with the Bible, or do you already have an opinion and are trying to find out what we think? Do you have access to a Bible, and to Catholic teachings?

Alan
 
YAQUBOS said:
1. As you quote Jesus as saying that God is good, then do you think Jesus is not good?
  1. If it’s not essential to be perfect to get to Heaven, then why does the Apostle Paul say:
    “For the wages of sin is death” ( Romans 6:23 )
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” ( Romans 3:23 )

Love,
Yaqubos†
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Is this a backdoor argument for sola scriptura? Claim being, we are perfected by the cross. We could never fulfill the ten commandments perfectly, therefore we are justified by faith of the perfect sacrifice alone.
 
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YAQUBOS:
“Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.” ( Deuteronomy 27:26 )
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I believe this is a reference to the Mosaic law. We are no longer under the law but under grace. Man’s inability to keep the law is why Jesus came. He fulfilled the law so that man would not be cursed. He saved man from the curse that was inevitable by man’s failure to perfectly keep the law.

In Christ,
Nancy
 
On the subject of Christ calling only the Father good. I think he was refering to the fact that no man can be good in himself. Good comes from God. Since Christ was God, I think he was refering to the flesh part of himself. Christ is not a created being but his flesh is created. The flesh is not good in and of itself. He was not excluding himself as the Son of God from being good, he was saying that the flesh is not good.
 
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Mijoy2:
Is this a backdoor argument for sola scriptura? Claim being, we are perfected by the cross. We could never fulfill the ten commandments perfectly, therefore we are justified by faith of the perfect sacrifice alone.
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I was wondering whether it was a backdoor arguement for justification by faith alone.
 
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jimmy:
I was wondering whether it was a backdoor arguement for justification by faith alone.
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Sorry, yes, this is what I meant. Sola fida. Got my solas mixed up. 🙂
 
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Mijoy2:
Sorry, yes, this is what I meant. Sola fida. Got my solas mixed up. 🙂
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Yea, that is why I did a little analysis of both sides in post 20. I saw it coming that he may just wip out the sola fide arguement and try a surprise attack.
 
I noticed on one of the other boards–you were there too, jimmy–he mentioned something about “real born again Christians” not NEEDING to wear medals, etc. Jimmy correctly informed him that he had missed the point–the OP wasn’t stating that he had to or needed to wear a medal to be Christian but that it (and other sacramentals) were a visible sign of one’s faith in and belief in Jesus.

Perhaps some particular non-Catholics are more iconoclastic in outlook than others. Perhaps it is a matter of differing interpretations–the word “pray” being a MAJOR hurdle in Catholic-non/Catholic dialogue, for example, along with “worship”.

Oh well. We ARE all Christian, and we can only continue to work for and pray for unity, IMO, AS Christians.
 
YAQUBOS said:
†Peace be with you!

God says:

“You shall have no other gods before Me.”

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.”

“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.”

“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”

“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.”

“You shall not murder.”

“You shall not commit adultery.”

“You shall not steal.”

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

With these Ten Commandments, I greet you, my friends, and you brothers and sisters in Christ.

And I would like to begin my first post with a very practical topic: Are you under the CURSE of God?

In fact, I believe all apologetics are vain unless they intend to be practical and in the service of Truth.

Therefore I would like that we all think seriously about the Ten Commandments mentioned above, and then think about the following words of our God:

“Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.” ( Deuteronomy 27:26 )

And let’s think about the following question:

AM I UNDER THIS CURSE?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

theophilus_agape@hotmail.com
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I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not being obstreperous.

Gal.3 Verses 13 to 18 states:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us – for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree” –
that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man’s will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified.
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many; but, referring to one, “And to your offspring,” which is Christ.
This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Peace
Joanna

 
I would recommend “Blessings and Curses - You can choose” by Derek Prince. It has a good treatment on this subject of curses.
 
Peace be with you!

I first want to give a little comment about what Jesus said about God being good ALONE.

The rich man who came to Jesus was self-righteous. He thought he can please God by his merits. And he looked to all teachers as good in themselves. Jesus, by His divine wisdom, tried first the rich to see if He is really believing in Him ( i.e. in Jesus ) as God, and that he is not just calling good because he is a teacher and believer. Then Jesus wanted to show this man how he is unable to save himself by the Law. So He asked him about the Commandments. The rich proved how much self-righteous he is when he said that he kept all those Commandments since he was young! In fact, who can keep all the Commandments perfectly, other than Jesus?
To show him his great sin, Jesus told him to give everything he has to the poor. The rich didn’t accept this, because he what? HE WORSHIPPED MONEY!
Thus, Jesus proved to him that he didn’t even keep the first Commandment about worshiping God ALONE, and loving Him ALONE.

Thus, we see that Jesus didn’t deny that He is good, but that He proved He is God, and that the rich man didn’t want to follow God according to His Will.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

theophilus_agape@hotmail.com
 
Peace!

Now, I want to return to our topic in this thread.

God says that all humans who don’t have Christ as personal Lord and Savior are under the CURSE of the Law, and that by FAITH in Christ they are BLESSED with Abraham, the BELIEVER.

“So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us–for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”–” ( Galatians 3:9-13 )

“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.” ( Galatians 2:16 )

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ( Ephesians 2:8-9 )

Salvation and freedom from the CURSE is a gift. If someone presents to you a gift, do you ask him: “Well, what must I pay for it?”. Of course not! You just say “Thank you”.

So if Salvation is by Grace, then it is not by works, as the Bible says:

“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.” ( Romans 11:6 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Peace!

Are all those who are called “Christians” really Christians and BELIEVERS?

The Bible says:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."( John 1:12-13 )

Only those who receive Jesus Christ by FAITH are real children of God. And only children of God have the Holy Spirit of God, and they live by Him:

“if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”( Romans 8:9 )

“all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”(Romans 8:14)

“But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.”(Hebrews 12:8)

So if someone says: I am a Christian, but I don’t practice or live the Christian Faith, then he is just lying to himself or to others! But no one can deceive God who knows the hearts!

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Jesus said: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."( John 10:27-28)

So the saving Faith is not something we inherit by birth. Only those who receive Christ and hear His voice belong to His sheep. So don’t boast of being Orthodox or Catholic or Protestant! That will not save you! Hear the voice of Jesus and receive Him by Faith as Lord and Savior, and you are saved!

Don’t say “I have been baptized and then I have gone away from God!” This is just a deception! The truth is that those who don’t believe in Christ have NEVER believed in Him! They went out because they have never been in! Jesus doesn’t lose His sheep! None can take them out of His Holy hand.

And the beloved Apostle confirms this:

“They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.”( 1 John 2:19)
 
Peace!

Dear friend, you don’t have any merit in you that can make you deserve Salvation and Eternal life. Even being born in a Christian family doesn’t give you any merit. You need to recognize that you are a LOST sinner who needs the Saving Blood of Jesus Christ. For only when you recognize that you are a LOST sinner, you can be saved by the Blood of Christ, our Lord. For Jesus said:

“For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”(Luke 19:10)

If you believe that you are totally lost, not able to save yourself or do anything to save yourself, then, and only then, you can be justified by Faith in Jesus Christ.

Eternity is not a short time… And even if you have ONE sin, you deserve eternal HELL. For the Spirit says clearly:

“the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord”(Hebrews 12:14)

Even if you have ONE sin, you cannot see the Lord.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus"(Romans 3:23-24)

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”(Romans 6:23)

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Jesus Christ says He came not to abolish the law but to fulfull the law. Everything in the Old Testament foreshadows the New, everything in the New Testament fulfills and makes clear what is hidden in the Old. You cannot quote OT stand-alone and make a case for what a Christian must do unless you also interpret that in light of the NT. Revelation is entire and complete only in Jesus Christ so snippets here and here without context are misleading and unreliable.

Jesus says, If you love me you will keep my commandments. All of them, in the way he demonstrated.
 
Grace to you!
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puzzleannie:
Jesus Christ says He came not to abolish the law but to fulfull the law. Everything in the Old Testament foreshadows the New, everything in the New Testament fulfills and makes clear what is hidden in the Old. You cannot quote OT stand-alone and make a case for what a Christian must do unless you also interpret that in light of the NT. Revelation is entire and complete only in Jesus Christ so snippets here and here without context are misleading and unreliable.

Jesus says, If you love me you will keep my commandments. All of them, in the way he demonstrated.
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It seems that you didn’t read carefully my replies… Old Testament passages are explained in the light of the New Testament.

Love†
 
It seems like you are not looking for an answer to your question, but are looking for interested parties to hear what you have to say. That’s fine, because it relieves me of trying to answer the question for you.

This is all very interesting, but I find it a bit hard to read. I don’t mind hearing or reading a good sermon from time to time, but personally I’ve never been much for highlighting or underlining, so I’m finding it fairly tedious to wade through. That’s why I usually don’t read those little 1 inch square booklets about salvation I often see in a jar at stores.

In summary, I think you are saying that we are saved by our belief in Christ, through His actions, right? No particular works of merit are needed or even helpful?

Certainly you’re not saying you can have faith without works, are you?

Alan
 
Maybe I speak from my relative immaturity to the Catholic faith (a 1 -2 year revert) but I find the discussions regarding faith vs. works between Catholics and Protestants an exercise in circular reasoning for the most part. A, sort-of, chcken or the egg argument.

If I am not mistaken, I believe Protestants make the claim that Faith in Jesus alone is the way to salvation. But when faced with the hypothetical(s), what of the molesters, murderers, wife beaters, adulterers, so forth and so on, the answer to this is often, “they had a said faith not a true faith”. Implying that because of thier evil ‘works’, they likely didn’t truly believe in and have a strong faith in Jesus.

Well isn’t this what we Catholics also claim? If we have a true faith in Jesus, we will be righteous, or attempt to be and repent when we fail.

As I said, maybe it is me, but it sure seems we are saying much the same thing. We have to dig deep to find a difference that may in fact no exist to find.

If I am on a diet and wish to lose weight, I will claim to be on “a diet” (faith in Jesus). If I am true to my claim I will in fact lose weight. If I really didnt want it bad enough (not enough faith in Jesus), I will fall off the diet and not lose weight (exercise evil works).

If I was successful: was I successful because of my true devotion to my diet (strong faith), or to my good works in maintaining said diet?

If I was unsuccessful: Was I unsuccessful because I didn’t really want it bad enough (lack of faith), or my bad works in maintianing the diet?

Isn’t this a matter of perception??
 
Peace be with you!

Dear Alan don’t use the way of “Jehovah’s Witnesses” of being “very” openminded…
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AlanFromWichita:
In summary, I think you are saying that we are saved by our belief in Christ, through His actions, right? No particular works of merit are needed or even helpful?

Certainly you’re not saying you can have faith without works, are you?

Alan
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For me, this question shows one of two things: 1. You don’t know what is the saving faith that the Christians talk about. 2. By prejudice, you think that I am not a real Christian, so I am talking about a non-Christian kind of faith like many of those to whom James wrote his Epistle.

Your question is just like asking God: “Will the righteous man LIVE by faith, or DIE by faith?” The answer, of course, is: “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” ( Romans 1:17 ). This is the living, Christian, and saving faith. But some false brethren sneaked in among the children of God, who didn’t understand what God was teaching His people, and taught another kind of faith that cannot save, a faith without power, a faith of mind, without any change in the heart. To these false brethren James writes: “Can that faith save him?” ( James 2:14 ). Of course not, because that is the kind of faith that Satan have, not the Christian saving faith! “the demons also believe, and shudder.” ( James 2:19 ). And after a while, some teachers in the Church preferred to think about that dead kind of faith and say: “Faith + works”, as if the Christian faith is dead! Is our faith dead like the faith of Jews, or Muslims or “Jehovah’s Witnesses” or Mormons who all believe in this lie called “Faith + works”? “For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.” ( 2 Corinthians 11:4 )

Yes, my friend. Asking this question is like asking: can the sun rise without shining? We are not talking about dead stars, my friend!

Imagine you go to a market and you ask for a bottle of juice. And the man asks you: “do you want the bottle with juice in it, or without juice?”… Well, although this last example doesn’t totally fit to our case here, but it shows how much questions can be without sense… And yet, some people want “a bottle of juice + juice”, or “a bottle of juice + a bottle to put the juice in it”…
N.B.: I always quote the Bible in read.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
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