Are you willing to pay double or higher taxes for Gov health care

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Muzhik said:
And finally, in Great Britain, the courts there have ruled that doctors and nurses – ALL doctors and nurses, not just the ones in the NHS – can be legally forced to provide services (i.e., abortion, sterilization, etc.) that they may find morally objectionable. Since they are providing a public service, they can’t pick and choose which procedures they’ll do. If they find these procedures morally objectionable, the courts have stated that they do not HAVE to choose to be medical providers.
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Medical professionals are not forced to be directly involved in such procedures, it’s what one might mean by ‘direct’ or ‘indirect’ involvement (from whether handing on the case to another practitioner who doesn’t object would count as involvement or, even, whether one would one be involved if one gave a woman about to have an abortion a glass of water) where the argument lies.
 
It doesn’t exist because we Americans, some of us, have this cockeyed notion that public anything means less efficiency, more bureaucracy, higher cost to consumers, and the end of the free enterprise system, that is, a socialist economy.
 
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Our Church has always valued helping the marginalised and vulnerable and thus public health care is surely a no brainer.
 
catholic03 said:
No offense to Americans but I don’t see why public health care does not already exist.
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Because we don’t trust our government!!
  1. Those of us who are older have seen much and it has given us a permanent cynicism towards any government involvement in anything. Hey, remember Nixon and those crazy Watergate guys?
  2. We have also read the history of our country (not the sanitized, liberal history that many children are fed in public schools nowadays). We know that the United States was an “experiment” individual freedom without constant government interference in daily lives. Obviously the experiment has gone wrong many times, especially for those brought over as slaves from Africa and other countries. But we fought the bloodiest war in our history to rectify that injustice. America is about FREEDOM from massive government control.
  3. There are too many immoral politicians who are not Christians and who believe that abortion is “health care.” At this time in history in the great state of Illinois, we have a governor–a big grinning Chicagoan, who is bragging that he and his Democratic-controlled State Congress have created the Most Progressive State in the Union when it comes to Reproductive Health (code words for LEGAL ABORTION THROUGHOUT PREGNANCY, and taxpayers pay for it!!!).
  4. There is a lot of waste in government, especially federal government. The huge bureaucracy, mainly personnel, required to implement any government program sucks up most of our taxes, leaving pennies (if that much) to actually pay for the program.
  5. Because health care is controlled not by doctors and other health care professionals, but by lawyers who are making a darn good living through frivolous malpractice lawsuits. Until this is brought under control by our lawmakers, and lawyers are forced to reign it in and live like regular folks (a Chevy life instead of a BMW life), there is no point to bringing yet another money-devouring government organization into health care.
  6. Because many of our health care issues are self-produced.
    –Addictions
    –Domestic violence
    –Gangs and mobs disperse weapons illegally
    –Obesity and sedentary lifestyles
    –Stress!!
We in the U.S. need to come to grips with our own personal responsibilities for healthiness, and start living healthier lives. Even if every person in the U.S. is taxed for 100% of their incomes, including all the billionaires!–there would not be enough money to cover the health care needs of our very unhealthy population!!

Taxes in the U.S. and in the States and the cities and towns, need to be drastically REDUCED so that people don’t have to work multiple jobs to pay bills, and so that they have more free time to plan and live healthier lifestyles that reduce stress. The money that I send to the government could be better spent on healthier foods and my gym membership (and classes at that gym), and also on vacations which I seldom have time off to enjoy.
 
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If the increase in taxes was less thani pay a month now, for premiums and doctors visits and prescriptions of course
 
Over half of my gross income currently goes to a premium for insurance that doesn’t cover much. If doubling my current tax rate meant the kind of care provided in Canada or the UK, sign me up!
 
Why would I want extremely irresponsible people running our healthcare? And why would I want to pay more for worse care?
 
You often imply I am not honest. Right now, I am going to be blunt with you. can easily do the math, our combined income is 33K.

We do not own a house, I had an 11K IRA. Those are our assets. Because of that small IRA, my husband does not qualify for a discount on his Medicare supplement. We have had to borrow against that just to pay rent, so, there was a chance we could save a bit on premiums for him in 2020.

He is on SSDI, so, receives Medicare. That is $124 per month premium that just comes out of his $1000 monthly SSDI check.

Medicare pays 80% of medical bills. When one has such intense Cardio Vascular disease, his LVAD alone was a quarter of a million dollars, his heart transplant will be far far far more. Upkeep is expensive as well.

In our state, you cannot have Medicaid as a Medicare supplement, state law.

The Medicare supplement costs $700 per month. His Prescription drug coverage is additional, honestly I paid it for a year and cannot remember that cost. On top of that, our copay for his medications is $240 per month.

We needed to raise $10,000 cash before we could be approved for the heart transplant for charges that no policy cover.

This is reality.

I have group coverage that is deducted from my check, I can see my PCP for $20 so I can get basic med stuff. My complex orto and neuro issues due to an aging body with a rare from of dwarfism, however, requires out of network specialists many hundreds of miles away. Even to get an MRI $500 out of pocket, I cannot afford that. I am losing use of my right arm and my legs.

This is reality. The things they tell you on TV/Blogs do not match the reality I, and so many of our friends, live in.

My husband died on Friday morning, so, this month I can spend the $700 on funeral expenses.

I will be an activist for medical reform until the day I die. My husband spent his last 4 years of life worrying about money.

He holds university degree, full ride scholarship, my ACT scores were one point away from perfect so I had a full ride pretty much anywhere I wanted to attend. I have worked literally full time since I was a teen, and as a child worked in our family business.

Back when I was making 100K per year I was not paying 54% of my income in taxes, so, I cannot fathom that now, as a low income person, I do not believe my taxes would increase to something comparable to 54% of my income for universal health coverage.
 
My condolences and prayers regarding your husband’s death. While my situation is not as bad as yours, I can commiserate with you concerning the seemingly never-ending money issues in my own life, as well as that of many of my friends, despite the fact I have worked hard nearly my whole life and am still working as I near 70. (I must, however, admit I enjoy my work: a big plus.) In my case, it doesn’t help that I live in one of the most expensive areas of the country (New York City), of which the high cost of living for everything is relentless. I’m with you for health reform. I think one of the principal villains is the insurance industry, which has such a firm grip on healthcare costs, and another is the pharmaceutical industry, whose drug costs never seem to at least plateau. Almost any change would probably be better than what we now have, in which too many people are suffering with either no or inadequate and costly healthcare that bleeds them dry.
 
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Don’t forget the religious liberty issue also. I expect any healthcare plan the left comes up with if they regain power is not going to include conscience protection. Obama gave us a clue what to expect.
 
“Why would it be double?”
Because it would be bureaucrat-heavy, and politicians would keep expanding to get votes. Look at Social Security.
 
I think that more access to abortion is the worst aspect of public health care but I still believe that public health care is necessary.
 
That covered my husband for 2 years. It was the Medicaid Expansion under the ACA. We literally had no out of pocket expense during those years. In our state, they will not continue it after 24 months of SSDI, the disabled are forced into federal Medicare with it’s exorbitant co pays.
 
I’ll bet if you do the math and you add taxes and medical premiums together its not much different then other countries except we won’t go bankrupt or be turned away.
 
I wish there was a good way to do a fair, unbiased comparison between the U.S. health care system and the Canadian system. I hear various positive/negative anecdotes, and I’m sure that a lot depends on the hundreds of variables related to the illness, the attitude of the patient, the doctor/hospital staff, etc.

My first reaction is, the less government involvement, the better. They’ve drastically increased the cost of education while simultaneously diminishing the results, they royally messed up everyone’s investments due to the 2008 financial meltdown (and similar financial downturns), there are bad stories about VA healthcare (in some places), etc., etc., etc.
 
Larry1700 said:
wish there was a good way to do a fair, unbiased comparison between the U.S. health care system and the Canadian system. I hear various positive/negative anecdotes, and I’m sure that a lot depends on the hundreds of variables related to the illness, the attitude of the patient, the doctor/hospital staff, etc.
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:canada: To me, US version looks like a business selling a commodity. Patient decides what they want within what they are able to pay. If you want it and can pay for it, you get it. On the street a big difference I see is the massive billboards in the US, advertising hospitals and medical services of all kinds.

In Canada, more like a service aimed at health of general population. If you need it, it is appropriate, you are a good candidate, your doctor will order it.

We have geographical challenges. Doctors don’t like to live in isolated communities, poorer communities. They are offered incentives for that. People living in outlying areas must travel for their health services.

Federal taxes are transferred to the provinces for the purpose of administering health services to their populations.

Medical association and provincial governments negotiate list of necessary services and prices that they may charge. Provincial governments pay the bills. Doctors operate as private corporations, for the most part. They may choose to opt in, or opt out of the system to get paid by the provincial government.

OECD reports US has much higher cost per capita, lower outcome (life expectancy).
 
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Crocus said:
US version looks like a business selling a commodity.
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You’re correct, and that’s kind of the point in a (albeit less and less) capitalist society. The idea is that competition drives down prices. However, it’s not purely capitalistic, so the prices don’t get driven down as low as they otherwise would. Government (via Medicare) pays for a lot of things, and they pay doctors, clinics and hospitals very low rates. Consequently, non-Medicare patients are forced to pay higher rates. But then there’s insurance, which further complicates the pseudo-capitalist structure.
Crocus said:
Medical association and provincial governments negotiate list of necessary services and prices that they may charge. Provincial governments pay the bills. Doctors operate as private corporations, for the most part. They may choose to opt in, or opt out of the system to get paid by the provincial government.
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This sounds similar to Medicare.
Crocus said:
OECD reports US has much higher cost per capita, lower outcome (life expectancy).
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I wonder if there are other factors affecting life expectancy, such as eating more fish, less fast-food, etc., more exercise related to necessity, or more exercise due to more beautiful and nature-filled places to enjoy?
 
Larry1700 said:
I wonder if there are other factors affecting life expectancy, such as eating more fish, less fast-food, etc., more exercise related to necessity, or more exercise due to more beautiful and nature-filled places to enjoy?
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I know that two growing causes of death are overdose deaths (especially opioids) and the suicide rate. 100 years ago, the average American life expectancy was somewhere around 50… now it’s closer to 80. But due to opioids and suicide, the life expectancy rate actually did go down a smidge recently.

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On the other hand, I also know that the US has a high infant mortality rate because we try to save more premature babies with our technology. The ones who don’t make it get counted as infant deaths. Whereas the countries that don’t even try will not add them to the “infant mortality” statistics.
 
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