Are Your Traditional Catholic Beliefs a Source of Division Among Your Family and Friends?

[SemperFidelis]

They dissent therefore they are “liberal?”

Almost every self-proclaimed or self-styled liberal “Catholic” I’ve come across has been lableled such because they refuse to accept or believe a key tenet (read: Dogma) of the Faith. They’re Catholic in name only (read: not actually in any way Catholic) and liberal “Catholic” applies to their midset, situation, beliefs, etc. quite well.

I would probably just call them “dissenters.”

That works too. So does liberal “Catholic,” protestant, modernist, heretic, etc. (each one of course depending upon the specific circumstances of said dissent).

 

[nannygirl]

That’s rediculous. Many, many (almost all?) Catholics struggle with teachings of the Church. It hardly makes them “Protestants.”

Struggling with the teachings of the Church and not believing and/or not following the teachings of the Church are two different things. Get a grip. If a person doesn’t believe or follow the teachings of the Church, they can hardly call themself a Catholic.

 

[palmas85]

Well I can tell you this. There are quite a few Catholics who loathe Traditional Catholicism, the Traditional Mass and everything connected with it. They particularly despise the Traditional Mass. They see it as being devisive and its continued practice keeping the Catholic faith from progressing to a new understanding of Christianity. These are in general the same ones who spread the anti traditionalist propaganda that we have heard so often on this forum and others. ie: Nobody knowing what was going on, everyone praying the Rosary in Mass, five minure speed Masses, etc etc.

Some of the advice you have been given here is good, other, well, let be charitable not so good. Hinting that you should hide your beliefs and suggesting that you are looking for confrontations would fall into that general group.

My advice, don’t pay any attention to what they say or how they react. Remember to a great degree many of these same people believe that you can reject the Church, reject Christ and believe just about anything they want because all religions have value and everyone worships the same God no matter what they believe,
Yet on the other hand these same people condemn certain Traditional groups and societies to eternal damnation for adhering to beliefs and practices that the Church has had for a long long time.

Don’t sweat it. Just pray for them.

 

[SaintTrainee]

What difference does it make if you go to a Latin Mass or a Novus Ordo Mass? Yes Latin has been a tradition in the Church for many centuries but lets us remember that in the early church the native tounge was spoken at the time. What is important is the state of mind one has when receiving the eucharist. Isn’t it supposed to be about Jesus Christ? Whether one receives communion in a Latin Mass or a Novus Ordo Mass isn’t revelant but what is revelant is that Jesus is present and that we can commune with him. Isn’t that beautiful? Who wants to let PRIDE get into the way of a relationship with Jesus Christ?

 

[SemperFidelis]

What difference does it make if you go to a Latin Mass or a Novus Ordo Mass? Yes Latin has been a tradition in the Church for many centuries but lets us remember that in the early church the native tounge was spoken at the time. What is important is the state of mind one has when receiving the eucharist. Isn’t it supposed to be about Jesus Christ? Whether one receives communion in a Latin Mass or a Novus Ordo Mass isn’t revelant but what is revelant is that Jesus is present and that we can commune with him. Isn’t that beautiful? Who wants to let PRIDE get into the way of a relationship with Jesus Christ?

The differences between the TLM and the Novus Ordo are about more than just the Latin language.

 

[SaintTrainee]

The differences between the TLM and the Novus Ordo are about more than just the Latin language.

And the difference is? We are the body of Christ, Christ would not let the Mass which is our primary and highest form of Worship to him become anything other than something that is pleasing to him. Peace.

 

[palmas85]

And the difference is? We are the body of Christ, Christ would not let the Mass which is our primary and highest form of Worship to him become anything other than something that is pleasing to him. Peace.

You obviously have a somewhat limited knowledge of the Churches history then. There have been and continue to be horrific abuses in Masses of different types throughout the ages. Everything from some of the outright heretical Masses in the early church, to the so called fools Masses of the Middle Ages to the Barney Masses of today. No not all Masses are pleasing to God.

 

[ethelzguy]

No not all Masses are pleasing to God.

Amazing. God has shared this with you personally?

 

[palmas85]

Amazing. God has shared this with you personally?

No He has not. However to be fair, neither has he disclosed anything to you. Would you believe that a heretical Mass or a Black Mass for instance would be pleasing to God?

 

[ethelzguy]

No He has not. However to be fair, neither has he disclosed anything to you. Would you believe that a heretical Mass or a Black Mass for instance would be pleasing to God?

Not having participated in either, I couldn’t say…

 

[SaintTrainee]

You obviously have a somewhat limited knowledge of the Churches history then. There have been and continue to be horrific abuses in Masses of different types throughout the ages. Everything from some of the outright heretical Masses in the early church, to the so called fools Masses of the Middle Ages to the Barney Masses of today. No not all Masses are pleasing to God.

So are you saying that the Novus Ordo Mass is a horrific abuse?Are you are calling the NO Mass heretical? I sure hope not. Have there ever been any abuses in either Mass, probably? But I would guess that the NO and Latin Masses are both pleasing to God.

 

[SaintTrainee]

No He has not. However to be fair, neither has he disclosed anything to you. Would you believe that a heretical Mass or a Black Mass for instance would be pleasing to God?

Palmas you really are stetching this a bit aren’t you? We were talking about the NO Mass and the Latin Mass. Masses that are APPROVED by the church. The Vatican II council which was led by the Holy Spirit came to a decision that a Mass said in the language of the country was in order. Are there some problems in the translations? Perhaps, but that does not change the fact that this is for MANY Catholics our highest form of worship to Jesus Christ.

 

[EasterJoy]

As to the original post, I have relatives that think I’m backward because I think Rome speaks the truth when the Holy See says it has no authority to ordain women. We don’t even talk about it any more. I’m sure they’d be thrilled if the Mass I regularly attended did not admit women near the altar or ambo in any capacity!

 

[palmas85]

Palmas you really are stetching this a bit aren’t you? We were talking about the NO Mass and the Latin Mass. Masses that are APPROVED by the church. The Vatican II council which was led by the Holy Spirit came to a decision that a Mass said in the language of the country was in order. Are there some problems in the translations? Perhaps, but that does not change the fact that this is for MANY Catholics our highest form of worship to Jesus Christ.

I have never said any differently. I think where the major problem lies is in the way some people approach the Masses. The way they celebrate them and the liberties that they take with them. To me that is a much larger issue than whatever language is used, although in all honesty, it is a whole lot easier to interject your own personality into something when speaking your own language as so many do these days.

As far as to Mass in the vernacular I believe the exact wording from Vatican II said something to the effect that

The use of the Latin language, with due respect to particular law, is to be preserved in the Latin rites. But since the use of the vernacular, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or in other parts of the liturgy, **may **frequently be of great advantage to the people, a wider use may be made of it, especially in readings, directives and in **some **prayers and chants.

In fact I’m positive that is what it said:thumbsup:

Having some degree of experience with the verbiage of laws and regulations, I can tell you that when the words **is to be ** are used, it is not optional. It is in fact, mandatory.

However on the other hand, when the words may be are used it is optional.

So based on that, as I see it, the use of the vernacular is purely optional and not even to be used all of the time, ie: in some prayers, and when used is at the discretion of the Bishops locally. The use of Latin on the other hand is mandatory and is to be maintained, by the law of the Church.

 

[ethelzguy]

Having some degree of experience with the verbiage of laws and regulations, I can tell you that when the words **is to be ** are used, it is not optional. It is in fact, mandatory.

However on the other hand, when the words may be are used it is optional.

Likewise, I’ve had more than enough unintended experience with legaleese…

Does “is to be” mean the same thing as “shall be” ???

 

[nannygirl]

C’mon! I thought this thread was a place for people with traditional Catholic beliefs/practices to discuss flak they are getting from people who don’t have those beliefs/practices. We aren’t here to talk about EF vs OF, so please go start your own thread if this is what you want to talk about. I can’t imagine why anyone who is not a traditional Catholic would even be posting on this site. I suggest that those who are truly want to help each other just ignore those who are only here to argue and harass.

Now to get back to the original question…

I don’t know that they are so much a source of division, but if I am discussing going to Mass with, say one of my Catholic customers, and I tell them what church I go to, they ALWAYS try to get me to come to their church instead. I just smile and tell that that maybe I’ll visit sometime. I attend the Latin Mass promoted by our Bishop, who is has been under fire ever since he came here.
I am the only adult Catholic in my family, so I don’t have too many people around me who are as excited as I am about being a Catholic! I love everything about the traditional Mass.
I am not suggesting that you hide your beliefs/practices, but usually, unless someone asks about them, they really aren’t interested. If they ask, by all means tell them.

 

[SemperFidelis]

C’mon! I thought this thread was a place for people with traditional Catholic beliefs/practices

I once thought this too, and it used to be much more that way. Lately though, Traditional Catholic Forum apparently translates to: place where neo-cons and liberals can come and bash on traditional Catholics. This is why of late I have preferred to post on Fisheaters and Angelqueen.

 

[nannygirl]

I once thought this too, and it used to be much more that way. Lately though, Traditional Catholic Forum apparently translates to: place where neo-cons and liberals can come and bash on traditional Catholics. This is why of late I have preferred to post on Fisheaters and Angelqueen.

Thanks, I’ll check them out.

 

[ethelzguy]

Perhaps different individuals have different opinions on what constitutes a “Traditional Catholic” As I was born in 1937, I consider myself a Traditional Catholic.

I lived through Vatican II, the Liturgical Changes of 1969, etc. I have seen many things during my life in the Catholic Church.

As far as any “bashing” goes, it seems to me that 90% of the bashing on this forum comes from the TLM crowd against the post-69 crowd.

There is more to Traditional Catholicism than the form of Mass that existed prior to 1965 or 1969. Our faith is much deeper than that.

It was also my understanding that forum ruled prohibited name-calling, such as “neo-cons”, etc.

 

[nannygirl]

Perhaps different individuals have different opinions on what constitutes a “Traditional Catholic” As I was born in 1937, I consider myself a Traditional Catholic.

I lived through Vatican II, the Liturgical Changes of 1969, etc. I have seen many things during my life in the Catholic Church.

As far as any “bashing” goes, it seems to me that 90% of the bashing on this forum comes from the TLM crowd against the post-69 crowd.

There is more to Traditional Catholicism than the form of Mass that existed prior to 1965 or 1969. Our faith is much deeper than that.

It was also my understanding that forum ruled prohibited name-calling, such as “neo-cons”, etc.

Hi! I think this thread is for Traditional Catholics who prefer the TLM and all that goes with it. We would like to discuss these things amongst ourselves. You are welcome to read our posts, but we are not here to argue endlessly with people who don’t share our views.