Aren't protestants following tradition too?

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As stated previously, there are High Church Anglicans who actually believe this.
Ah yes. Thank you.

But for those High Church Anglicans who do believe in Transubstantiation could it be said that they have denied a tradition formulated by Anglican divines back in the16th century?

If so, why remain Anglican? 🤷
 
Is that actually preached at their churches in my entire time at a catholic church I have never really heard the word protestants mentioned…
I have sat in many Baptist and Methodist sermons that was directed solely at how the Catholics are not Christians and worship idols. It is sad because those believers will walk away with a mindset that Catholics are not Christians and worship idols. That thought brings about a “tradition” 🤷
 
Ah yes. Thank you.

But for those High Church Anglicans who do believe in Transubstantiation could it be said that they have denied a tradition formulated by Anglican divines back in the16th century?

If so, why remain Anglican? 🤷
Many do not 😉

Anglicanorum coetibus
 
We’re fast approaching the 500th anniversary of Luther’s 95 Theses. And I venture to assert that in the half-millenium since then there hasn’t been a single Protestant who has learned his doctrine direct from the Scriptures in the privacy of his own study.
How Ironic the year the was passed was 1517. The events at Fatima occurred 1917. 2017 will be 100 years of Fatima and 500 years of protestants revolution…
 
Ah yes. Thank you.

But for those High Church Anglicans who do believe in Transubstantiation could it be said that they have denied a tradition formulated by Anglican divines back in the16th century?

If so, why remain Anglican? 🤷
Indeed. Why else would they be featured so frequently on “The Journey Home.”
 
Indeed. Why else would they be featured so frequently on “The Journey Home.”
Yes indeed! That show is one of my favorites. 👍

Very frequently Marcus and his guests examine this very topic we are chatting about. I often wonder what a huge struggle it must have been for his guests as they came to realize the traditions of the churches they were part of differed from other churches they or their friends and family members were associated with. Wow!
 
Is that actually preached at their churches in my entire time at a catholic church I have never really heard the word protestants mentioned…
Protestantism is very diverse, so I don’t think it’s fair to say that “they” teach these errors in “their” churches - this implies a greater unity than is actually found. SOME Protestants teach these things in SOME churches. Other Protestants pay so little attention to Catholicism that they don’t bother to teach much of anything, right or wrong, about it. It can depend on where you live; in my part of the world, I heard very little about Catholicism (only an occasional comment, generally a misunderstanding) until I attended a Seventh Day Adventist church. 😃
 
That’s true the point of the question is to analyze this angle…

Protestants will often argue that it is better to trust in the authority of Scripture alone as opposed to the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition. However, I found that Protestants trusted the authority of historians, biblical scholars, and theologians to provide them with the most reliable texts, the most accurate translations, and the most historically and culturally faithful interpretations of those texts. And yet they have never met any of these individuals, had only indirect access to how they had gone about their research, and was largely ignorant of the biases they may or may not have brought with them in their work.Protestants are trusting in a “magisterium” of Protestant historians, scholars, and theologians as the Catholic who trusts in the Church.

So that is bringing tradition into the picture…
I have begun to notice that, and it’s brought me to a tentative conclusion about Protestant authority. In matters of differing interpretations and deciding who should be listened to- almost like arriving at a “final say”- it seems that Protestant authority boils down to the authority that comes from having the most expertise. While there is the idea that every Christian should read the Bible and seek God’s guidance understanding it, you also see a near-universal tendency to reach out to historians, grammarians, and so forth when something is unclear. And among people with multiple advanced degrees- among the scholars themselves- you see an even clearer picture of a competitive (although generally friendly) environment in which those types of people seek to demonstrate superior expertise, hoping to use that to reach common ground with other Protestants while enriching the whole group with the fruits of their labors.

In a way, I suppose these types of people are trying to do some of the same things as the Magisterium. But absent a highly centralized authority, and armed only with an expertise that almost requires quotes to call you an “authority” on something, it looks quite a bit more similar to the process of seeking truth in academia. Whether it’s historians or scientists or linguists. There’s a process where smart, highly educated people are the ones who, with few exceptions, set themselves apart as “deciders” on the basis of their expertise while forming a starting point for other experts going forward. In that sense, I would say the work of Protestant scholars, experts, and theologians does lead to a kind of teaching tradition, but it’s more similar to an academic paradigm than it is to the Catholic idea of Sacred Tradition. And the people doing the work are more like your usual academics than they are like cardinals.

Also, I will note that I have met quite a few of these individuals, I have or have had some direct access to how they go about their research, and in getting to know them personally (biases and all), I’ve had to watch my own biases pretty closely as I compare the work of a personal friend to that of some guy I don’t know. To that point, I know I’m not like most Protestants- but in general, I do believe there’s more accessibility and public availability to the general public with these Protestant experts than there is with the Catholic Magisterium. First, in raw numbers, the Magisterium is comparatively tiny. Second, they don’t operate as a whole group in America. Third, they’re comparatively withdrawn from normal, public life. I’ve had opportunities to meet and know some Protestant expertise by way of their kids; how many children of Catholic cardinals have you met in your life? Beyond that, however, I have a different quibble with how you say Protestants trust these experts the same way Catholics trust the Magisterium. As far as biases and so forth, there are some very similar flies that can and do go in the ointment. But as far as the normative means of gaining trust and bringing people into line, I do think there’s some huge differences. Ideally, the Protestant “”“Magisterium”"" operates as a strict meritocracy where expertise must be demonstrated, recognized as such, then gradually be accepted by other experts who write books people read them give lectures people listen and then people are convinced by the evidence and by the argument. Which, presumably, could have been given by anyone, but it takes an expert to come up with the information and put it together.

I won’t attempt to summarize how the Magisterium operates, but I do believe there’s some key differences that set it quite apart from the everyday of the average academic.
 
Protestantism is very diverse, so I don’t think it’s fair to say that “they” teach these errors in “their” churches - this implies a greater unity than is actually found. SOME Protestants teach these things in SOME churches. Other Protestants pay so little attention to Catholicism that they don’t bother to teach much of anything, right or wrong, about it. It can depend on where you live; in my part of the world, I heard very little about Catholicism (only an occasional comment, generally a misunderstanding) until I attended a Seventh Day Adventist church. 😃
I was looking back in the archives and happened to find a Journey Home program back in February in which the guest talked about this in some detail. ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289 It’s the one from February 4. Vaughn Kohler, former Baptist (unaffiliated). Among other things, he was highly specific and detailed about the Protestantism that he left in order to become Catholic. As someone who continues to be a Protestant, I can attest to almost everything he talked about, and in this particular instance, I look at how he describes being a Protestant looking at Catholicism and I feel like I can take that for myself pretty much word for word. This would be so, so different if I was Adventist or mainline of some kind, but to me, the way Vaughn Kohler described it was just like what it was for me.
 
In my experience, as a former protestant, I found That most evangelicals/fundamentalists
Are very suspicious of authority and very jealous of their prerogatives. But due to “sola scriptures” there is a lot distention between protestants about interpretation of scripture.
One of the biggest selling points of Catholicism besides the continuance of history (popes since St. Peter.) was the Magisterium which decided doctrine.
 
Now most protestants say that Catholics follow traditions but aren’t they themselves following traditions for instance,

Lutheran’s are following Luther’s interpretation of the bible
Calvinists following his interpretation of the bible
Ulrich Zwingli, Theodore Beza etc

What are your thoughts?
Are you seeking to equate how Catholics define “Tradition” with a capital “T” and how Protestants use the word …with a small “t” are the same? Catholics from what I understand “Tradition” to mean is it is a binding as scripture…Protestants do not believe “tradition” is binding at all…but simply a “tradition”…not “Tradition”.
 
Are you seeking to equate how Catholics define “Tradition” with a capital “T” and how Protestants use the word …with a small “t” are the same? Catholics from what I understand “Tradition” to mean is it is a binding as scripture…Protestants do not believe “tradition” is binding at all…but simply a “tradition”…not “Tradition”.
They tend to avoid the “T” word when discussing the “Solas” (probably because most who have not studied it deeply think them to be Scripture). However their avoidance of the term does not mean it is a capital “T” for them in practice.

Of course, the above applies only to those who adhere to the “Solas”. 😉
 
Now most protestants say that Catholics follow traditions but aren’t they themselves following traditions for instance,

Lutheran’s are following Luther’s interpretation of the bible
Calvinists following his interpretation of the bible
Ulrich Zwingli, Theodore Beza etc

What are your thoughts?
Some clarifications.
First, Lutherans never reject Tradition, and certainly not traditions.
Secondly, we do not “follow Luther’s interpretation”. Luther’s interpretations are held to the same standard of the practice of sola scriptura as any other teacher, teachings, doctrine or dogma. Luther’s writings in the Lutheran confessions are the ones which conform to scripture. Luther was but a man, and there are many things he wrote that are not followed, and in some cases are rejected. So, we follow scripture, and believe the Lutheran Confessions rightly reflect the Truth of scripture.

To answer your question, of course we follow Tradition, too.

Jon
 
But doesn’t that conflict with their teaching of Sola Scriptura? Is there a contradiction here?
No contradiction at all. Sola scriptura does not require an exclusion or rejection of scripture. Sola scriptura only holds that Tradition be held accountable to scripture. We hold Tradition to be a witness to the truth of scripture.

For example, the first section of the book of Concord is the three ancient creeds of the Church. They truly and rightly reflect the truth of the faith of the Church, and we bind ourselves to them. That is precisely what sola scriptura practices.

Jon
 
In my experience, as a former protestant, I found That most evangelicals/fundamentalists
Are very suspicious of authority and very jealous of their prerogatives. But due to “sola scriptures” there is a lot distention between protestants about interpretation of scripture.
One of the biggest selling points of Catholicism besides the continuance of history (popes since St. Peter.) was the Magisterium which decided doctrine.
I’m close to agreeing with you but my biggest push away from the Baptist Church is their Autonomy. It truly causes too many problems. I’m reading CCC now and I find it to be an incredible document. It is interesting too see truths and doctrines that have been developed over hundreds of years.
I have sat in many Baptist and Methodist sermons that was directed solely at how the Catholics are not Christians and worship idols. It is sad because those believers will walk away with a mindset that Catholics are not Christians and worship idols. That thought brings about a “tradition” 🤷
Maybe it’s a North Dakota thing. I’ve been in hundreds of Baptist churches and have never heard a thing about Catholicism.
Protestantism is very diverse, so I don’t think it’s fair to say that “they” teach these errors in “their” churches - this implies a greater unity than is actually found. SOME Protestants teach these things in SOME churches. Other Protestants pay so little attention to Catholicism that they don’t bother to teach much of anything, right or wrong, about it. It can depend on where you live; in my part of the world, I heard very little about Catholicism (only an occasional comment, generally a misunderstanding) until I attended a Seventh Day Adventist church. 😃
Maybe you’re right but I’ve never heard anything mentioned about Catholics from a pulpit in any Baptist Church I attended.
I was looking back in the archives and happened to find a Journey Home program back in February in which the guest talked about this in some detail. ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289 It’s the one from February 4. Vaughn Kohler, former Baptist (unaffiliated). Among other things, he was highly specific and detailed about the Protestantism that he left in order to become Catholic. As someone who continues to be a Protestant, I can attest to almost everything he talked about, and in this particular instance, I look at how he describes being a Protestant looking at Catholicism and I feel like I can take that for myself pretty much word for word. This would be so, so different if I was Adventist or mainline of some kind, but to me, the way Vaughn Kohler described it was just like what it was for me.
I haven’t heard this yet but plan to do so, later today. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say.
 
Very much so 😉

Sola Scripture is a tradition of most Protestants. They proclaim they are Scripture alone, yet scripture alone is not found in scripture, rather the opposite is found. Some deny it outright while others will agree that they maintain some sort of tradition. Like the post above us, they hold to tradition as long as it does not trump or contradict scripture but many of their traditions do however.
One would not expect an explicit stating of sola scriptura in scripture, and since it is not, it is not an article of faith. Catholics, for example, are not condemned because they do not hold to sola scriptura.
There are, OTOH, a number of instances where scripture speaks to a holding to scripture. For example, Psalms 119 - *Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. *

Jon
 
Well, if that is so, whose tradition is correct and whose is incorrect? How does one arrive at the truth in this very important matter?
great question! The one I believe the Lutheran reformers were asking. For example, The Tradition that holds the pope to have universal jurisdiction, or the one that doesn’t, such as Nicea, canon 6.

In fact, if Rome and the East were to solve that contradiction, ISTM sola scriptura would no longer be a necessity.

Jon
 
I am unaware of any Catholic doctrine that is truly universally rejected by Protestants.
To me knowleadge, every non-catholic church (including orthodxy) rejects purgatory. Of course, all protestants reject the papacy and the magisterium as having divine authority. All reject the doctrine of transubstantiation in the precise way that the RCC teaches (though anglicans and lutherans believe it for all intents and purposes) but others reject it in favor of merely symbolism or a real spiritual presence. All reject the assumption of Mary, though some still hold to her immaculate conception and sinlessness.

Those are just off the top of my head, I’m sure I missed a few.
 
To me knowleadge, every non-catholic church (including orthodxy) rejects purgatory. Of course, all protestants reject the papacy and the magisterium as having divine authority. All reject the doctrine of transubstantiation in the precise way that the RCC teaches (though anglicans and lutherans believe it for all intents and purposes) but others reject it in favor of merely symbolism or a real spiritual presence. All reject the assumption of Mary, though some still hold to her immaculate conception and sinlessness.

Those are just off the top of my head, I’m sure I missed a few.
Some Anglicans accept purgatory, and Lutherans simply reject the intermediate state/place aspect of it.

As for Transubstantiation, how so for Lutherans?

Jon
 
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