Aren't protestants following tradition too?

[JonNC]

That is one thing I never could understand. Take the scenario of a Protestant pastor expounding on the Scriptures on Sunday morning and then telling the congregation to search the Scriptures. If one of the congregants happens to interpret the passages differently from the pastor, who decides, authoritatively, who is right and who is not?

Depends on the communion. In the LCMS, if it relates to doctrine, the parish would turn to the synod for clarification.

Jon

 

[campeador]

There are, OTOH, a number of instances where scripture speaks to a holding to scripture. For example, Psalms 119 - Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.

Jon

As there are a number of instances where scripture speaks to a religious authority we ought to obey. For example, Matthew 23- Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example.

 

[JonNC]

As there are a number of instances where scripture speaks to a religious authority we ought to obey. For example, Matthew 23- Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example.

No argument. As a member of the LCMS, I am bound by its teachings. The issue for a Lutheran is not doctrinal obedience to the authority of our communion.
The issue then becomes is the pope the final authority over all Christendom on Earth. I have yet to be convinced that he is in the way the Catholic Church presents it.

Jon

 

[pablope]

There are, OTOH, a number of instances where scripture speaks to a holding to scripture.

For example, Psalms 119 - *Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. *

Jon

jon…this was in oral form when it was first uttered…and then into written form later.

So…the Word…in this psalm…does it refer to the written word alone, the oral word…of the Word?

 

[pablope]

No argument. As a member of the LCMS, I am bound by its teachings. The issue for a Lutheran is not doctrinal obedience to the authority of our communion.
The issue then becomes is the pope the final authority over all Christendom on Earth. I have yet to be convinced that he is in the way the Catholic Church presents it.

Jon

Hey Jon…If not the Pope…then who do you think should be speaking with Final authority for all Christendom here on earth?

If you cannot be convinced it is the Pope…who are convinced it is in the present day?

 

[pablope]

That’s not what I mean, pablope. I am referring to whether I conceptually interject “my pastor and the elders” or “magisterium” into the word “church” when I read Scripture.

Okay…how do you think the truth, the teaching of the Church…will be delivered correctly, if not through a magisterium?

Your pastor, any protestant pastor…did they just become pastors reading the Bible? Or did they have to go through some kind of training?

Whether you interject it or not…the question remains…how do you think the truth, the teaching of the Church…will be delivered correctly, if not through a magisterium?

Who delivers the message of the Church to you every week?

How is it delivered to you?

What is the purpose of requiring training for your pastors? Why don’t they just go read the Bible and start teaching?

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

Whether you interject it or not…the question remains…how do you think the truth, the teaching of the Church…will be delivered correctly, if not through a magisterium?

Who delivers the message of the Church to you every week?

How is it delivered to you?

What is the purpose of requiring training for your pastors? Why don’t they just go read the Bible and start teaching?

You’re addressing an issue that I am not. What is the church, pablope?

 

[Chiefsinner]

That is one thing I never could understand. Take the scenario of a Protestant pastor expounding on the Scriptures on Sunday morning and then telling the congregation to search the Scriptures. If one of the congregants happens to interpret the passages differently from the pastor, who decides, authoritatively, who is right and who is not?

I agree ultimately who is right? Is it Calvin? is it Luther? is it Zwingli? Is it Knox? They all couldn’t agree on several different aspects…

 

[GreatergoodGod]

Tradition is a hard thing to break away from. Even to those that deny it ie. Pentecostals.

 

[thermoman]

I agree ultimately who is right? Is it Calvin? is it Luther? is it Zwingli? Is it Knox? They all couldn’t agree on several different aspects…

hey i think you guys are missing the point-- the protestants saw what jesus saw and brought to light-- that there is a “singular truth” that is contained in the TORAH.

Jesus said he wasn’t going to add to or take away from –

1 john-- 3;22 we ask and receive because “we keep his commands” and do what pleases him.

obviously this is a difficult thing to do-- if you are not doing what Jesus said to do

in the TORAH-- so i guess Jesus’s church is different

 

[campeador]

No argument. As a member of the LCMS, I am bound by its teachings. The issue for a Lutheran is not doctrinal obedience to the authority of our communion.
The issue then becomes is the pope the final authority over all Christendom on Earth. I have yet to be convinced that he is in the way the Catholic Church presents it.

Jon

Then I pray that the Holy Spirit gives you guidance.

 

[JonNC]

Then I pray that the Holy Spirit gives you guidance.

Thanks. I pray for that every day.

Jon

 

[MaryT777]

I agree ultimately who is right? Is it Calvin? is it Luther? is it Zwingli? Is it Knox? They all couldn’t agree on several different aspects…

Exactly. The Holy spirit is right )
through his on Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[MaryT777]

Ben,

It’s been a pleasure. Both of us have to keep in mind a very important fact. The human element of the Catholic Church has made serious mistakes in the past. However, these mistakes had nothing to do with matters of faith and morals. Time does not permit me to list the human mistakes that have been made. We must also remember that the Church is both human and Divine. While we travel on this earth, the Church can be likened to a hospital for sinners. I am sure even Pope Francis would agree with this.

 

[MaryT777]

I really do not see how reunion of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches is keeping you from coming into communion with Rome. I may be missing something

I dont understand that either. I’ve heard it before.

IF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ORTHODOX REUNITE I MIGHT BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC?

 

[aidanbradypop]

I dont understand that either. I’ve heard it before.

IF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ORTHODOX REUNITE I MIGHT BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC?

That would be like me saying that if the LCMS and the Catholic Church came into full communion then I would convert to Lutheranism. That just does not make sense.

No disrespect but that just sounds like excuses to me.

 

[Tomster]

Not looking for actual appearance of the word, Tom. Rather, the concept of magisterium being equivalent to the word “church” in Scripture

But the word book does show up plenty of times.

Indeed…and none of them refer to the office of the papacy.

To start thing off GB, I’ll start off by giving you some very basic information regarding the word magisterium with the basic bibical underpinnings.

The word magisterium is derived from the Latin word magister which quite simply means “a master”.

The basic biblical underpinnings are “Going therefore, teach ye all nations . . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19-20). The teaching is infallible: “And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world” (ibid.)

Because the subject matter is very detailed and lengthy I will refer you to this link for your own self directed study. We can both refer to this link in case you have additional questions.

www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

 

[aidanbradypop]

To start thing off GB, I’ll start off by giving you some very basic information regarding the word magisterium with the basic bibical underpinnings.

The word magisterium is derived from the Latin word magister which quite simply means “a master”.

The basic biblic underpinnings are “Going therefore, teach ye all nations . . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19-20). The teaching is infallible: “And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world” (ibid.)

Because the subject matter is very detailed and lengthy I will refer you to this link for your own self directed study. We can both refer to this link in case you have additional questions.

www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

That’s a wonderful link.

If I may, I would like to add my two cents as well.

Every denomination as a “magisterium” in a sense. Whether you are Southern Baptist and abide by the Convention, Episcopal and you Bishop, Mormon and your Prophet, Lutheran and your Synod/Bishop, etc…etc, you abide by a certain “magisterium” that you give authority to. If you disagree with such, you can always leave and go to an independent denomination but yet you are still under that pastor. The Orthodox have their “magisterium” just like any other. Now whether or not you want to call it that is up to you, but you do live under an authority in your faith.

I believe a lot of the anti Magisterium is often just anti Catholic teaching.

 

[Tomster]

That’s a wonderful link.

If I may, I would like to add my two cents as well.

Every denomination as a “magisterium” in a sense. Whether you are Southern Baptist and abide by the Convention, Episcopal and you Bishop, Mormon and your Prophet, Lutheran and your Synod/Bishop, etc…etc, you abide by a certain “magisterium” that you give authority to. If you disagree with such, you can always leave and go to an independent denomination but yet you are still under that pastor. The Orthodox have their “magisterium” just like any other. Now whether or not you want to call it that is up to you, but you do live under an authority in your faith.

I believe a lot of the anti Magisterium is often just anti Catholic teaching.

:twocents:

I agree. The non-Catholic magisteriums that you have identified all have one thing in common, they reject the word infallible and substitute the words private judgment.

It is the “Catholic Intellect” that, under the assistance of the Holy Spirit, directs the Church in an infallible manner. When we affirm with St. Irenaeus that the Church is in possession of what may be called a “Depository of Truth”; when we assert that the Church is the infallible custodian of the Deposit of the Faith, we do not certainly limit her possession and guardianship to its material part. It must be extended to what is therein contained for the preservation and transmission of the “discipline, by which we are made Christians.”

This is the reason why the Fathers speak so brilliantly of “Catholic Intellect,” “Conscience of Faith,” “Catholic Sense.” The real and principal Tradition is the conservation and propagation of that genuine intelligence of the revealed truths through the common assent of the Apostolic Succession under the special assistance of the Holy Spirit. This is Divine Tradition.

 

[pablope]

You’re addressing an issue that I am not. What is the church, pablope?

If I asked for the church…I would have asked. But that is not what I am asking.

This is what I am asking:

Originally Posted by pablope
Whether you interject it or not…the question remains…how do you think the truth, the teaching of the Church…will be delivered correctly, if not through a magisterium?

Who delivers the message of the Church to you every week?

How is it delivered to you?

What is the purpose of requiring training for your pastors? Why don’t they just go read the Bible and start teaching?

Either you have answers or you don’t. These are simple questions easily answered…but you keep evading…why?