Argentine bishop, too, threatens excommunication for faithful who attend SSPX chapels [CC]

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commenter said:
The existing Personal Prelature, Opus Dei, always had been fully in union with the Holy See, it already was respected by most dioceses, and still is; fully unified internally, and consistent over the last several decades.
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DId they have countless number of chapels all over the world which they trusted with their local bishops? I don’t know if their situation is exactly the same.

I’m not sure why the FSSPX did in their heels deeper every time they are provoked by some bishop(s). (or vice versa, for that matter.) Perhaps some of their rich benefactors could explain it, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just part of being in a conservative vs progressive world, where they will always disagree. Or maybe, as someone suggested, to them the evils of apostacy and apparent corruption of faith outweigh the evils of a schism.

Just trying to make sense out of this.
 
commenter said:
does not fully accept V2
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The problem with this argument is that the Archbishop signed the documents. Maybe there was a disconnect with the eventual interpretation of those documents? If that’s the case there are many of those not even associated with the FSSPX who have a problem with some of those interpretations. Simply saying they don’t “accept V2” says nothing meaningful IMO.

And for the record, the FSSPX was established as a legitimate fraternity by Rome. I don’t want to defend them more than that.
 
ProVobis said:
DId they have countless number of chapels all over the world which they trusted with their local bishops? I don’t know if their situation is exactly the same.
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I mentioned Opus Dei because others have suggested making SSPX a Personal Prelature, and so far that’s the only one. Opus Dei, like SSPX, has often been criticized by some powerful people in the Church and the world. Opus Dei responds by clarifying its actual position, when that is misrepresented. But it doesn’t hit back against its opponents, either before, or after becoming a Personal Prelature, even when the attacks were blatantly unfair. Before and after becoming a Personal Prelature, its ministries were very productive, and compatible and supportive of whatever else was going in the diocese. Ask yourself if the SSPX fits the template for being a Personal Prelature. Does the SSPX ever criticize Vatican officials or diocesan bishops?
ProVobis said:
I’m not sure why the FSSPX did in their heels deeper every time they are provoked by some bishop(s). (or vice versa, for that matter.) Perhaps some of their rich benefactors could explain it, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just part of being in a conservative vs progressive world, where they will always disagree. Or maybe, as someone suggested, to them the evils of apostacy and apparent corruption of faith outweigh the evils of a schism.
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Even within the Church’s fold, it’s hard to keep your balance in a rapidly changing world. But when people step outside the fold, they tend to lose their perspective, worse as time goes on. The SSPX gets more adversarial with the Church each year. In the 1970s they were talking about the right to the Latin Mass, now they are far more focused on the “rights” of the organization, as such. They are deeply influenced by the “rights” culture of recent years. Like Call to Action, etc. None of this has much to do with conversion.
ProVobis said:
Just trying to make sense out of this.
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You and me both.
 
commenter said:
Before and after becoming a Personal Prelature, its ministries were very productive, and compatible and supportive of whatever else was going in the diocese.
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True, but you (I think it was you?) mentioned that if the local bishop didn’t approve of their being there, they (the Opus Dei) could easily move to another diocese. When you have established chapels and growing communities inside of them, it’s not that easy. One thing that I’ve noted (having a graduate business degree from a Benedictine University) is that the FSSPX have done a great marketing job for the 1962 Missal. It’s not easy to find the geographical concentration of such interest in the older form. Do they want to give up this expertise? The EF is not successful everywhere it has been initiated, although to be fair many diocesan EF’s have been started to save dying parishes.
Does the SSPX ever criticize Vatican officials or diocesan bishops?
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IIRC, one of the conditions of having their excommunications lifted was that they discontinue their attacks on the Holy Father. This should have applied to their priests as well. They’d be very foolish to criticize the diocesan bishops at this point. That’s what got them into trouble back in the 70’s.
 
ProVobis said:
True, but you (I think it was you?) mentioned that if the local bishop didn’t approve of their being there, they (the Opus Dei) could easily move to another diocese. When you have established chapels and growing communities inside of them, it’s not that easy. One thing that I’ve noted (having a graduate business degree from a Benedictine University) is that the FSSPX have done a great marketing job for the 1962 Missal. It’s not easy to find the geographical concentration of such interest in the older form. Do they want to give up this expertise? The EF is not successful everywhere it has been initiated, although to be fair many diocesan EF’s have been started to save dying parishes.
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Sometimes people set up a structure to facilitate some purpose. Over time, the maintenance of that structure becomes a goal in itself, equal or surpassing the original purpose. New reasons to justify that structure keep getting identified.

Have you ever worked for a government agency?
 
commenter said:
If you audited the government agency I retired from, I could tell you where to look. 🙂
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I think most government and corporate agency are required to reveal their financial status. Interestingly enough it seems that we are still waiting to find out the financial status of the FSSPX.

(reference removed as one of its links led to a conspiracy site but one could do a search for Fellay and financial statements.)

One would think it would be necessary for them to disclose same before anyone would seek a merger or communion with them.
 
I disagree with the other poster who said the excommunications of the bishops should never have been lifted (by Pope Benedict). We don’t know the personal spiritual situation of those men, nor do we know all the larger issues that may be involved.
But regarding Bishop Williamson, I wonder what his “status” would be now, since his excommunication was lifted, and he was later “expelled” by the SSPX. Since the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize the SSPX as a religious order, with no authority to admit anyone at all, how can the Church consider him to be “expelled” now? Expelled by whom, or expelled from what - by whose authority?

How is Bishop Williamson’s status in the Catholic Church (or that of the other bishops) affected by lifting of excommunication, if they aren’t in official assignment even now, as priests? What is the actual consequence other than psychological of lifting their excommunications? What is Bishop Williamson’s status right now? Does he identify himself as a (genuine) SSPX adherent even now? Does Rome regard him as still in the SSPX, or something else?

It just seems odd to me. I can see if an excommunicated cleric came back in the fold, was now assigned to a new posting by the Catholic Church. But that didn’t happen here, either for Bishop Williamson, or the others.

These men need our prayers.
 
Just tell the Bishop that while you go to an SSPX chapel, you’re divorced and remarried and taking communion. That always gets the Mercy Train to leave the station.
 
Why is the SSPX so popular there, and if people are attracted to traditionalist liturgy, why are they not going to FSSP chapels instead of SSPX chapels?
 
RGCheek said:
I have never in my nearly thirty years of being a convert to Catholicism understood the nature of this conflict between the SSPX and the Vatican.

:confused:
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I think the real problem is that SOME SSPX priests are openly defiant to the Bishops. I read an series of letters between a SSPX priest and a Bishop. The SSPX priest started it with a public letter blasting the local diocese and the province Archbishop. When someone tried to address the priests concerns with a private letter, the priest scanned the letter and put it on his website. Many letters were exchanged and finally a warning about stopping or facing excommunication. The priest kept putting the letters on his website and letting the laity at his Chapel know all about the exchanges. Finally, he was excommunicated.

The problem SOME of the SSPX priests have is that they individually and publicly question and undermine the local bishops.

This is what causes them to get into hot water. While on the other hand, many of the heterodox priests/nuns usually back down when challenged by their Bishop and they typically do not publicly and blatantly undermine the Bishop.

But when the liberals do, the bishops clamp down.

However, I think the truth is that the SSPX and other groups like the SSPV are do more damage than people think. The reason is, they make some people feel like orthodoxy and being traditional are bad things. Having SSPX priests bickering with Bishops does more damage because it fractures the orthodox Catholics. The only way orthodoxy can grow is if we are united.

So let’s pray that this Year of Mercy will become a big step to bringing SSPX into formal relations with Rome.

God Bless
 
phil19034 said:
Because, except for one location in Columbia, the FSSP isn’t in South America

fssp.org/en/coordonnees.htm
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They would love to be in a lot of states, countries, etc. But, unless the local Bishop invites them, they cannot establish a presence there:o.

From what I have read & heard from others, they have done an amazing job in Colombia, South America. They have baptized lots of people, even older children & adults, helped with a school, etc. They have brought the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus to people without any access to it.

They are not just there for the Mass (although that is a wonderful thing!:D) But, they are helping to educate the people in the area, helping them to be a bit self sufficient, so they do not have to go into the big cities for jobs. And that way they can grow in the faith & spread it to others locally.

It is a true labor of LOVE what these Holy Priests are doing there. 👍

And it is a positive thing, because from what I have read on forums online, Protestants are sending missionaries to small villages in South America & trying to get people to leave the Catholic Church. The majority of Latin America was Catholic, and Protestants have been gaining ground.

So, it would be awesome, if Bishops would invite the FSSP into their countries. Then maybe we would not see what has been going on in Argentina with the SSPX.

God bless the FSSP Priests!:highprayer:

( FSSP= Fraternity of Saint Peter in Communion with Rome,
established by Saint Pope John Paul II)

( SSPX= Society of Saint Pius the X, current situation is irregular, but the Holy Father has allowed for them to have valid confessions during the year of Mercy)

+PAX
 
JimG said:
Why is the SSPX so popular there, and if people are attracted to traditionalist liturgy, why are they not going to FSSP chapels instead of SSPX chapels?
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In many places the only place to attend the EF/TLM is at an SSPX chapel as there are no diocesan EF masses and no FSSP or ICKSP.
 
Cider said:
In many places the only place to attend the EF/TLM is at an SSPX chapel as there are no diocesan EF masses and no FSSP or ICKSP.
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If that’s the case then it seems the diocese should be establishing more EF Masses or inviting the FSSP to the diocese, particularly if there seems to be a large demand for it.
 
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