Arguing with a priest... when is it necessary?

[Danny_OC]

Not positive if this is the right forum for this, also posted it in the AAA forum, but I’m not sure if I’ll get an answer there, so here it is!

I’m an undergraduate at a college in NY, where I am also involved with the Newman Club. During one of our meetings, the priest associated with the school came in to answer our questions. Everything was going fine for some time, but then things started to get a little controversial, maybe partially because of my doing (there are quite a few very watered down catholics, and I thought this might be an opportunity to hear it from a priest that they needed to take a more serious look at their faith). Things then got pretty ugly (and far more controversial than I ever intended–not at all of my doing). First the priest claimed his absolute stance that The Church was completely wrong on homosexuality and women priests. I kept my mouth shut even then because, though I strongly agree with the Church on those issues, I guess he has a right to offer another view on them. But then it got worse; he argued that The Church in general is an organization that just likes to cover things up. He said that you need to go with what you feel is right. I objected to this, saying that we must follow with certainty the definite teachings of The Church, especially if the Pope speaks infallibly. He mocked my “religious rightism” and insisted on calling the Pope “the bishop of Rome.” He also referred to a previous experience of his where he told a group of priests “we all need a little heresy.” The argument continued along these lines, he began to yell at me, I did not back down, and the club meeting ended with me bluntly telling him “you are wrong.”

I know that he has far more knowledge than I do; but I felt that I needed to back up the my side. Solid faith is rare among college students, and I felt his invalid preaching was risking making it more rare. Should I have been less forward in my arguing? I sent him and the club a follow up email, clarifying my views, citing the catechism. He didn’t reply. I have been going to masses at other churches since this incident ( a few months ago) and have not seen him since. Should I pursue this issue farther? Should I not have pursued it then?

Thank you very much and God Bless,

Dan

 

[JimG]

I know that he has far more knowledge than I do; but I felt that I needed to back up the my side. Solid faith is rare among college students, and I felt his invalid preaching was risking making it more rare. Should I have been less forward in my arguing? I sent him and the club a follow up email, clarifying my views, citing the catechism. He didn’t reply. I have been going to masses at other churches since this incident ( a few months ago) and have not seen him since. Should I pursue this issue farther? Should I not have pursued it then?

Thank you very much and God Bless,

Dan

Well, it doesn’t sound like he has more knowledge than you do. I think you did the right thing; the other students are entitled to know when they are being taught error.

 

[Coreopisis]

Dan this is a very interesting topic and something I have been wondering about myself lately.

I have a great aunt who is a nun and I recently learned that her entire nun group at a specific location (or whatever it is called) is now using crystals and rocks to ‘ground themselves’ and for healing purposes and stuff. My Grandma pointed out to her that this is wrong and goes against the church but she had an argument for this other viewpoint ready to go. Don’t get me wrong she does alot of good, there is just some of this bad stuff mixed in.

Additionally there is a website, that I wont name, where a Brother has some ideas that I know go against everything I’ve ever learned to be Catholic. If you argue with him though, and some have, he gets angry, kicks you off the site and removes your post entirely. Again he does some good too, but
the bad is so damaging to those who follow him.

I think we need to speak the truth whenever possible. We don’t have to be mean about it but we should speak the truth. Although I will be interested in hearing if there are actual rules on the subject.

 

[revelations]

So long as you bring up the truth. Whatever the offending party’s response is isn’t your problem anymore. I’ve often wondered what the etiquette is on this stuff. I figure if you show em the light, they can choose to take it or not. If you know for 100% certain it’s the truth then speak it up. I have to buy a catechism to carry around with me for just these occasions. I often consider not speaking up to be something I have to confess when i do my confessions.

One that is really bothering me is from when i was at a small weekday mass (10-15 people) and the priest leaned over to one of the EMHC and said “i need 10 more” and the EMHC walked over to the tabernacle, didnt genuflect, grabbed 10 consecrated hosts, and brought em over and tossed em in the chalice. I was so shocked. I wanted to intervene and say something like “I HOPE THOSE ARENT CONSECRATED AHHHHHHH!” but i didnt

If someone insists on their heresies, high tail it out of there and never go back. Report them perhaps to a superior or another priest, and pray for them. Pray so much for them and for their soul.

-revelations

 

[Teelynn]

To be to the point in answering your question, you have every right and even every **responsibility **to defend the faith as long as it is done in a charitable spirit. It sounds as if this priest was the one to get testy in attitude which of course put you on the defensive. Regardless, Jesus will hold us accountable for **NOT **defending the truth of His Church in the end. We are all called to be soldiers of Christ and are expected to defend His teachings and His Church. IMHO “You Done Good!”

 

[kage_ar]

It seems that a polite call to the Bishop’s office is well in order.

 

[tomarin]

To be to the point in answering your question, you have every right and even every **responsibility **to defend the faith as long as it is done in a charitable spirit.

hear, hear!

 

[Scottgun]

It seems that a polite call to the Bishop’s office is well in order.

Do it in writing so you have a paper trail.

 

[glenaitken]

First the priest claimed his absolute stance that The Church was completely wrong on homosexuality and women priests. I kept my mouth shut even then because, though I strongly agree with the Church on those issues, I guess he has a right to offer another view on them. But then it got worse;
Dan

Dan, This priest has ***no right ***to offer this view on these topics. He is a living ambassador for Christ through the virtue of his ordination, and he is in formal public heresy. tell the bishop.
Glen

 

[po18guy]

I know that he has far more knowledge than I do; but I felt that I needed to back up the my side. Solid faith is rare among college students, and I felt his invalid preaching was risking making it more rare. Should I have been less forward in my arguing? I sent him and the club a follow up email, clarifying my views, citing the catechism. He didn’t reply. I have been going to masses at other churches since this incident ( a few months ago) and have not seen him since. Should I pursue this issue farther? Should I not have pursued it then? Thank you very much and God Bless, Dan

His knowledge has nothing at all to do with being correct on church teaching. It has nothing to do with obedience. Such dissidence is what caused the Seattle Archdiocese to incur the corrective eye of the Vatican back in the late 80s. I would suggest an advisory letter to the bishop, who needs to hear what (and how) priests under his tutelage are doing. You may very well help the faith of a priest whose vocation is for life, but which is also diluted tremendously by his apparent lack of “denial of self”. Since this denial of self is the first step to be taken before following Christ, he needs your help. Please prayerfully consider and take action as is warranted.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[idrum677]

Dan, thanks for standing up for the faith.:clapping:

Having more knowledge doesn’t make somone “right.” St Faustina was illiterate when Our Lord first appearead to her. You did the right thing by standing up for what you know is right.

The priest here has overstepped his authority. It espicially pains me that his audience was college students who are lacking in catechesis and this priest is probably the only “authority” they have been exposed to. They will be able to say “well a priest told me that, so it must be right.”

The other scandal is that this priest is the campus chaplain and is most likely counseling students. This needs to be brought to light!


I agree that a letter to the bishop’s office is an order and to stop attending the campus masses.There also may be a campus ministry office for the diocese- find out and contact someone there as well.

Keep doing what you are doing by not letting the culture of today effect your views. God Bless.
:knight1:

 

[Scottgun]

I’m an undergraduate at a college in NY, where I am also involved with the Newman Club. During one of our meetings, the priest associated with the school came in to answer our questions.

In addition to a letter to the bishop, bring in a different priest for your group. Yeah, it’s stirring the pot, but heterodoxy has no rights.

 

[Danny_OC]

Thank you all very much for you advice. I think I will attempt to schedule a meeting with him to express my concerns. If that doesn’t work, I will write a letter to the bishop. I’m afraid the bishop where I live (Albany) is very liberal as well, but certainly would not go so far as to defend the behavior of the priest at my school.

 

[Coreopisis]

Thank you all very much for you advice. I think I will attempt to schedule a meeting with him to express my concerns. If that doesn’t work, I will write a letter to the bishop. I’m afraid the bishop where I live (Albany) is very liberal as well, but certainly would not go so far as to defend the behavior of the priest at my school.

Even if the Bishop did defend him you could always then go over the Bishops head even to the Pope. I am pretty sure the Pope would be sorely dissappointed by the actions of this particular Priest.

 

[po18guy]

Even if the Bishop did defend him you could always then go over the Bishops head even to the Pope. I am pretty sure the Pope would be sorely dissappointed by the actions of this particular Priest.

And the timing of all this is a Heavenly gift!

 

[idrum677]

I will write a letter to the bishop. I’m afraid the bishop where I live (Albany) is very liberal as well, but certainly would not go so far as to defend the behavior of the priest at my school.

Being socially liberal is one thing but teaching heresy is another. I agree that the bishop would listen.

If this issue is not resolved, keep sending letters to the bishop and Cardinal Egan as well. If there are like-minded students as yourself, have them also write letters.

Also, good for you for trying to meet with this priest to resolve it yourself. That takes courage.

 

[mangy_dog]

Not positive if this is the right forum for this, also posted it in the AAA forum, but I’m not sure if I’ll get an answer there, so here it is!

I’m an undergraduate at a college in NY, where I am also involved with the Newman Club. During one of our meetings, the priest associated with the school came in to answer our questions. Everything was going fine for some time, but then things started to get a little controversial, maybe partially because of my doing (there are quite a few very watered down catholics, and I thought this might be an opportunity to hear it from a priest that they needed to take a more serious look at their faith). Things then got pretty ugly (and far more controversial than I ever intended–not at all of my doing). First the priest claimed his absolute stance that The Church was completely wrong on homosexuality and women priests. I kept my mouth shut even then because, though I strongly agree with the Church on those issues, I guess he has a right to offer another view on them. But then it got worse; he argued that The Church in general is an organization that just likes to cover things up. He said that you need to go with what you feel is right. I objected to this, saying that we must follow with certainty the definite teachings of The Church, especially if the Pope speaks infallibly. He mocked my “religious rightism” and insisted on calling the Pope “the bishop of Rome.” He also referred to a previous experience of his where he told a group of priests “we all need a little heresy.” The argument continued along these lines, he began to yell at me, I did not back down, and the club meeting ended with me bluntly telling him “you are wrong.”

I know that he has far more knowledge than I do; but I felt that I needed to back up the my side. Solid faith is rare among college students, and I felt his invalid preaching was risking making it more rare. Should I have been less forward in my arguing? I sent him and the club a follow up email, clarifying my views, citing the catechism. He didn’t reply. I have been going to masses at other churches since this incident ( a few months ago) and have not seen him since. Should I pursue this issue farther? Should I not have pursued it then?

Thank you very much and God Bless,

Dan

You did the right thing. I am happy and thankful to Our Lord for you, your courage and for the discernment the Holy Spirit granted you at that moment, at that place and time.

Your words were not for you alone. Some others were benefited by your heroic stance. Their faith reinforced by your docility to the movement of the Holy Spirit.

We are living in heroic, Marian times and there will be more and more battles to fight. Arm yourself with regular confession, communion, rosary (and other sacramentals) against the wickedness and snares of Lucifer and his demons.

Stick to the Sound Doctrine of Jesus Christ and encourage others to do the same. Fight the good fight!

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[planter654]

Dan this is a very interesting topic and something I have been wondering about myself lately.

I have a great aunt who is a nun and I recently learned that her entire nun group at a specific location (or whatever it is called) is now using crystals and rocks to ‘ground themselves’ and for healing purposes and stuff. My Grandma pointed out to her that this is wrong and goes against the church but she had an argument for this other viewpoint ready to go. Don’t get me wrong she does alot of good, there is just some of this bad stuff mixed in.

Additionally there is a website, that I wont name, where a Brother has some ideas that I know go against everything I’ve ever learned to be Catholic. If you argue with him though, and some have, he gets angry, kicks you off the site and removes your post entirely. Again he does some good too, but
the bad is so damaging to those who follow him.

I think we need to speak the truth whenever possible. We don’t have to be mean about it but we should speak the truth. Although I will be interested in hearing if there are actual rules on the subject.

Fear no one but God—fear is wisdom of God! Trust in God, he is a living God!

My thoughts are that Jesus had alot of "Woes’ to the scribes, Pharises, the priests, the scholars of the law !! No, one has any authority over you. Worship God obey his laws, and commandments and if something goes against or does not sit well in your heart in serving Jesus, then go with Jesus. Worship God!

We are all human on earth and we shall all pass through death. .
God Bless. God is my authority whom I worship and trust, there forth I give my whole self to him and serve him and seek to do all that pleases him. We are no longer “under bondage” Jesus Christ has set us “Free” indeed. It is your choice!

We no longer have to practice our faith in darkness, in secrect. Like our ancestors before us who were tortured, murdered, put in prision. Worship God!

Jesus said: “If they hate you remember they hated me first!” That is why he was crucified.

God Bless