Argument in School: Are angels lower than humans?

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EWTN-FAN

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Hello everyone!
I’m pretty new here; only writing once before. I presently am in college and during my art class, a student was telling a story about one of her professors who was talking about the movie “City of Angels”. This professor was telling her class that she was outraged by this movie which depicts an angel falling from his status of an angel to a “higher” form of life as a human. She went on to tell her class that an angel is lower than humans and could not possibly go from being a “lowly” angel to a “glorious” status of the human being.

As this student was saying this, I strongly opposed this statement and said that angels are “higher” than humans and that this professor was dead wrong! I added that I read in scripture that it says “Jesus came to earth lower than the angels”. With this comment, 20+ students verbally attacked me telling me I was wrong and that angels are lower. I know for a fact that I am correct but need your help.

Can you all please help me with scripture passages and possibly other theological documents?

Thank you all and God Bless you!
ewtn-fan
 
I’m curious about this too.
My understanding has always been that angels are above us in intelligence and power and holiness (in the case of good angels), but below us in God’s love.
???
 
Origin, in his school in Alexandria, taught that all souls pre-existed. Each soul has free will. Some fell a little and became Angels, other a lot and became devils. Somewhere in between they either descend into bodies from the angels or ascend from being devils. By this point in the development of thought it was inconceivable to separate the Platonic thought from the Christian thought. You might find these useful: - CCC391 see all the refernces in the text to other CCC paragraphs? Take a moment to look them up too, you will be amazed at the breadth of the knowledge you will gain.
This is nice and simple too http://www.catholic.org/saints/angel.php
 
EWTN-FAN said:
Hello everyone!
I’m pretty new here; only writing once before. I presently am in college and during my art class, a student was telling a story about one of her professors who was talking about the movie “City of Angels”. This professor was telling her class that she was outraged by this movie which depicts an angel falling from his status of an angel to a “higher” form of life as a human. She went on to tell her class that an angel is lower than humans and could not possibly go from being a “lowly” angel to a “glorious” status of the human being.

As this student was saying this, I strongly opposed this statement and said that angels are “higher” than humans and that this professor was dead wrong! I added that I read in scripture that it says “Jesus came to earth lower than the angels”. With this comment, 20+ students verbally attacked me telling me I was wrong and that angels are lower. I know for a fact that I am correct but need your help.

Can you all please help me with scripture passages and possibly other theological documents?

Thank you all and God Bless you!
ewtn-fan
Click to expand...
Angels are superior beings to humans, however still remaining creatures.
 
Angels are definitely higher than humans in the order of nature.

In the order of grace, some humans are obviously higher than all the angels (Jesus and Mary)…

But other than that, I think in the order of grace…the order may be somewhat mixed…with some angels being higher than some humans, and some humans being higher than some angels but lower than others, etc…but generally, angels are higher.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Angels are superior beings to humans, however still remaining creatures.
Click to expand...
And yet humans will judge angels (1 Cor 6:3). Perhaps this “paradox” is answered by Christ’s words to Thomas, “Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe.” Perhaps our final victory over evil, made possible only by God of course, is even greater than the victory of the angels over evil, because we have not seen, and yet believe.
 
Hebrews 2:7
You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Jesus is God and became man, we are told that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, therefore man at this time is a little lower than the angels.
 
FightingFat said:
Origin, in his school in Alexandria, taught that all souls pre-existed. Each soul has free will. Some fell a little and became Angels, other a lot and became devils. Somewhere in between they either descend into bodies from the angels or ascend from being devils. By this point in the development of thought it was inconceivable to separate the Platonic thought from the Christian thought. You might find these useful: - CCC391 see all the refernces in the text to other CCC paragraphs? Take a moment to look them up too, you will be amazed at the breadth of the knowledge you will gain.
This is nice and simple too http://www.catholic.org/saints/angel.php
Click to expand...
I got the answer from one of these archives:

Psalm 8 is a Psalm in which the creation of the earth is extolled. Here we are told that man’s position is lower than the angels:

“What is man, that thou art mindful of him? … For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.” (Psalm 8:4,5)

The New Testament quotes this passage, and tells us that mankind - including the Lord Jesus himself - was made a little lower than the angels, “for the suffering of death” (Hebrews 2:9). Angels do not die, but men and women do. Even Jesus, the Son of God, was a mortal man, but has now received the glory and honour which was his due when, as he said after his resurrection, “all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18).

THANK YOU FIGHTING FAT!

PRINTING IT OUT AND TAKING IT TO NEXT CLASS WHICH IS TUESDAY NIGHT!!!
 
The legend I’ve read is that the war in heaven which lead to the fall of some angels and the banishment of Lucifer from heaven was due to the creation of mankind. Lucifer refused to serve and protect mankind as God commanded. Some angels took the side of Lucifer and were banished along with him.

Men, not angels were created in the image and likeness of God. Angels are messengers of God, but men are children of God.

Also, isn’t Mary Queen of the angels? A human woman presiding as queen in heaven?
 
BeeSweet said:
Men, not angels were created in the image and likeness of God. Angels are messengers of God, but men are children of God.
Click to expand...
Does the Church teach that angels are not created in the image and likeness of God? I never thought about that before. Depends on what the phrase means, of course. Angels certainly have reason and will, else they could not love God and be the objects of His love.
 
Well my understanding is that Angels are Saints…and Saints are higher than us.
 
Saints are humans who have “practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God’s grace” (CCC 828) while alive on earth.

Hebrews
Chapter 1

1 In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets; 2 in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe, 3** who is the refulgence of his glory, the very imprint of his being**, and who sustains all things by his mighty word. When he had accomplished purification from sins, he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4
as far superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; this day I have begotten you”? Or again: “I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me”? 6 And again, when he leads 3 the first-born into the world, he says: “Let all the angels of God worship him.” 7 Of the angels he says: “He makes his angels winds and his ministers a fiery flame”; 8 but of the Son: “Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You loved justice and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions”; 10 and: “At the beginning, O Lord, you established the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; and they will all grow old like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a cloak, and like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”** 13 But to which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool”? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent to serve, for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation? **
 
EWTN-FAN said:
I got the answer from one of these archives:

Psalm 8 is a Psalm in which the creation of the earth is extolled. Here we are told that man’s position is lower than the angels:

“What is man, that thou art mindful of him? … For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.” (Psalm 8:4,5)

The New Testament quotes this passage, and tells us that mankind - including the Lord Jesus himself - was made a little lower than the angels, “for the suffering of death” (Hebrews 2:9). Angels do not die, but men and women do. Even Jesus, the Son of God, was a mortal man, but has now received the glory and honour which was his due when, as he said after his resurrection, “all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18).

THANK YOU FIGHTING FAT!

PRINTING IT OUT AND TAKING IT TO NEXT CLASS WHICH IS TUESDAY NIGHT!!!
Click to expand...
Calm down a bit and remember that Origin was condemned in his opinion of not only pre-existence of the soul but also in his cosmology.

The reality is this and summarized by St. Thomas in his work on Angelic Beings (this is the reason for his title the Angelic Doctor).

In the Order of Nature angels are higher than men. The hierarchy of being explains this well. It goes from the most material to the least material. So we have at the bottom elements then vegetation then animals then man then angels then God. As you can see because angels have less matter (actually no matter but rather informed form) they are higher than man in the order of nature. However, enter the Order of Grace.

The soul that persists in Sanctifying Grace partakes in the Divine Nature is thus Divinized. By this process of Divinization we are made “little less than gods” and thus in the order of Grace any Human that is in a state of Sanctifying Grace holds a higher place than an angel. Those who do not posses Sanctifying Grace to not participate in Divinization and thus to not attain to this Order of Grace.

So in effect you are right and the other person is right just coming from different perspectives.
 
EWTN-FAN said:
Hello everyone!
I’m pretty new here; only writing once before. I presently am in college and during my art class, a student was telling a story about one of her professors who was talking about the movie “City of Angels”. This professor was telling her class that she was outraged by this movie which depicts an angel falling from his status of an angel to a “higher” form of life as a human. She went on to tell her class that an angel is lower than humans and could not possibly go from being a “lowly” angel to a “glorious” status of the human being.

As this student was saying this, I strongly opposed this statement and said that angels are “higher” than humans and that this professor was dead wrong! I added that I read in scripture that it says “Jesus came to earth lower than the angels”. With this comment, 20+ students verbally attacked me telling me I was wrong and that angels are lower. I know for a fact that I am correct but need your help.

Can you all please help me with scripture passages and possibly other theological documents?

Thank you all and God Bless you!
ewtn-fan
Click to expand...
THE ANGELS: MORNING STARS OF CREATION
Pascal P. Parente
ewtn.com/library/MARY/ANGEL1.HTM
 
BeeSweet said:
Saints are humans who have “practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God’s grace” (CCC 828) while alive on earth.

Hebrews
Chapter 1

1 In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets; 2 in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe, 3** who is the refulgence of his glory, the very imprint of his being**, and who sustains all things by his mighty word. When he had accomplished purification from sins, he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4
as far superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; this day I have begotten you”? Or again: “I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me”? 6 And again, when he leads 3 the first-born into the world, he says: “Let all the angels of God worship him.” 7 Of the angels he says: “He makes his angels winds and his ministers a fiery flame”; 8 but of the Son: “Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You loved justice and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions”; 10 and: “At the beginning, O Lord, you established the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; and they will all grow old like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a cloak, and like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”** 13 But to which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool”? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent to serve, for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation? **
Click to expand...
I see that even on this forum there will be people who believe that humans are higher than angels. From the attachments I’ve been given here - thanks to “Fighting Fat” and “dosdog” - it’s clear that angels are higher than humans - even if God has not called angels “sons of God” - but wait - read below…

In his work on ,

Pure spirits, the closest image and likeness of the Creator, were the effect of a divine act of creation. A spirit world was produced, at once, in its fullness and in its grandeur. When, at the word of the Almighty, light’s first rays lit up the primeval, shapeless world, still “wrapped in a mist as in swaddling clothes,” a wondrous song, a joyful melody filled the new heavens with never-ending strains. The Lord recalls these primordial times when He asks: “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? . . . **When the morning stars praised me together, and all the sons of God made joyful melody.”[1] These “sons of God,” living witnesses of the creation of the material universe, were our Angels, the morning stars of creation. **

Pseudo Dionysius thus describes the Godlike immateriality of the Angels and their superiority of nature above all other creatures: “Those natures which are around the Godhead (the Angels) have participated of It in many different ways. On this account the holy orders of the celestial beings are present with and participate in the Divine Principle in a degree far surpassing all those things which merely exist, all the irrational living beings, and rational human beings. For molding themselves intelligibly to the imitation of God, and looking in a supernal way to the Likeness of the Supreme Deity, and longing to form the intellectual image of it, they naturally have a more abundant communion with Him, and with unremitting activity they tend eternally up the steep, as far as is permitted, through the ardor of their unwearying divine love, and they receive the primal radiance in a pure and immaterial manner, adapting themselves to this in a life that is wholly intellectual.”[44]

Because of their wholly spiritual and immaterial nature, the Angels occupy the first and highest place in the scale of created things. Man himself is second on the scale of creatures: “Thou hast made him [man] a little less than the Angels.”[45] Just like an Angel because of his spiritual, immaterial soul, less than an Angel because of his material body.

But I once again thank you all for your enlightenment and words of wisdom. God bless!
ewtn-fan
 
One last addition:

Not only are the Angels real personal beings but because of their spiritual nature wholly untrammeled by matter, their personality is far superior to human personality. Human beings differ from each other merely as individuals of the same species; Angels on the contrary, according to Saint Thomas, differ from each other specifically;[47] so that we may say that there are not two Angels of the same species; each of them is his own kind. This fact implies a far more perfect individuality, a higher form of personality than the one known to us. Because of this specific difference, it follows that every single Angelic creature reveals an entirely new aspect of the eternal beauty and glory of God. To them apply the words of Saint Paul: “Star differeth from star in glory.”[48]

This is the wondrous Angelic world that the Lord created at the beginning of time. In our earthly way of thinking we may conceive it as a living diamond whose myriads of facets reflect constantly and harmoniously the divine splendors of the eternal glory of God. Among all created things the Angels are the best reflectors of the divine light: “As our sun, through no choice or deliberation, but by the very fact of its existence, gives light to all those things which have any inherent power of sharing its illumination, even so the [supreme] Good . . . sends forth upon all things according to their receptive powers, the rays of its undivided Goodness.”[49]
 
EWTN-FAN said:
I see that even on this forum there will be people who believe that humans are higher than angels. From the attachments I’ve been given here - thanks to “Fighting Fat” and “dosdog” - it’s clear that angels are higher than humans - even if God has not called angels “sons of God” - but wait - read below…

In his work on ,

Pure spirits, the closest image and likeness of the Creator, were the effect of a divine act of creation. A spirit world was produced, at once, in its fullness and in its grandeur. When, at the word of the Almighty, light’s first rays lit up the primeval, shapeless world, still “wrapped in a mist as in swaddling clothes,” a wondrous song, a joyful melody filled the new heavens with never-ending strains. The Lord recalls these primordial times when He asks: “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? . . . **When the morning stars praised me together, and all the sons of God made joyful melody.”[1] These “sons of God,” living witnesses of the creation of the material universe, were our Angels, the morning stars of creation. **

Pseudo Dionysius thus describes the Godlike immateriality of the Angels and their superiority of nature above all other creatures: “Those natures which are around the Godhead (the Angels) have participated of It in many different ways. On this account the holy orders of the celestial beings are present with and participate in the Divine Principle in a degree far surpassing all those things which merely exist, all the irrational living beings, and rational human beings. For molding themselves intelligibly to the imitation of God, and looking in a supernal way to the Likeness of the Supreme Deity, and longing to form the intellectual image of it, they naturally have a more abundant communion with Him, and with unremitting activity they tend eternally up the steep, as far as is permitted, through the ardor of their unwearying divine love, and they receive the primal radiance in a pure and immaterial manner, adapting themselves to this in a life that is wholly intellectual.”[44]

Because of their wholly spiritual and immaterial nature, the Angels occupy the first and highest place in the scale of created things. Man himself is second on the scale of creatures: “Thou hast made him [man] a little less than the Angels.”[45] Just like an Angel because of his spiritual, immaterial soul, less than an Angel because of his material body.

But I once again thank you all for your enlightenment and words of wisdom. God bless!
ewtn-fan
Click to expand...
I just hope you understand that it is both. If you want futher clarity just read St. Thomas on the issue. You can do a search at www.newadvent.com to get the full picture per Catholic theology.
 
I think the “Little less than angels” [Ps 8:5-7] quote was a good one, it’s used in the Catechism in explaining what constitutes a Catholic understanding of a human person.
 
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