Arguments Countering The Rapture Theory

[jimcanova]

Hello,

I would appreciate any books, tracts, articles, links, and/or commentaries which argue, point by point, the rapture theory. Thank you and God Bless!

 

[juno24]

The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen and Will Catholics Be Left Behind by Carl Olson are both excellent books.

 

[Ranp]

Jim Canova

1. 
   *]The rapture theory is not part of Catholic teaching…enough said but…
   *]The rapture theory dates to only the 1830s when a woman who attended a revival had a dream.
   *]It is based on only one line in the bible, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, “After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.”
   *]According to the Rapure theory the rapture is the one of the most important events in Revelations, yet the rapture is never mentioned in the Book of Revelations!
   
   Good books on Revelations from a Catholic point of view are:
   
   The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Scott Hahn.
   This is an easy and enjoyable book that makes so much sense out of Revelations.
   
   Will Catholics Be Left Behind? by Carl E. Olson
   This is a really good book but a longer and heavier read since expains all of the Rapture theories and their origins.
   
   Ran

 

[Ranp]

The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen and Will Catholics Be Left Behind by Carl Olson are both excellent books.

The Rature Trap looks really good…and just when I thought I felt a little burned out on reading.

Thanks,

Ran

 

[Nate13]

The Rature Trap looks really good…and just when I thought I felt a little burned out on reading.

Thanks,

Ran

Haha neither of the books/tape series suggested will bore you, I can guarantee that

 

[_L]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,4 that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Matthew 24:29-31

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven sthe sign of the Son of Man, and then tall the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And whe will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

These three passages used together confute the sensationalist rapture belief that has manifested itself in many evangelical theologies these days. This first passage is what rapture proponents use to prove their point, but look at the other two passages, especially what I highlighted in red, it becomes clear that all three of these passages are talking about the SAME event, and each passages sheds light on this event. This event is obviously the second coming of Christ, and it is at THIS event where the dead will rise, and those who remained faithful and survived the tribulation will get the distinction of being caught up with Jesus, only at the end of time will this occur, not before the tribulation, not during.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Some scriptures to consider:

Mt 24:37-39 For as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
In [those] days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day that Noah entered the ark.They did not know until the flood came and carried them all away. So will it be [also] at the coming of the Son of Man.

Who was carried away in the days of Noah? The sinners! Not the people God was saving.

Also look at Jesus’ explanation of the parable of the weeds in Mt 13:41-43

The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom* all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears ought to hear.

So, who did the angels come to collect first? The evildoers!

I know that I had found another Scripture that talks about the evildoers being dealt with first and then those who are saved being gathered up. I just can’t remember it right now. I will keep looking.

 

[Truth_Seeking]

This event is obviously the second coming of Christ, and it is at THIS event where the dead will rise, and those who remained faithful and survived the tribulation will get the distinction of being caught up with Jesus, only at the end of time will this occur, not before the tribulation, not during.

What is your objection to calling ‘being caught up with Jesus’ the rapture?

Is this some sort of mortal sin?

 

[Truth_Seeking]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

So this is a false prophesy?

BTW Did you notice that there is no mention of purgatory in the word of God here?

 

[Nate13]

So this is a false prophesy?

BTW Did you notice that there is no mention of purgatory in the word of God here?

The rapture theory has been condemned by the Vatican in that it preaches the idea that some small group of faithful people on Earth will be taken up to heaven in advance of others on Earth before the second coming. Think Left Behind series idea of the rapture. If you want to call the time when Christ comes and everyone on Earth is judged the “rapture” I guess you could, but that is not how the term has been used.

Verses to support purgatory

Mt 5:48
Heb 12:6-23
Jam 3:2
Rev 21:27
1 Jn 5:16-17
Jam 1:14-15
2 Sam 12:13-14
Mt 5:26
Mt 12:32
Mt 12:36
2 Macc 12:44-46
1 Cor 3:15
1 Pet 3:18-20,
1 Pet 4:6
2 Tim 1:15-18
1 Cor 15:29-30
1 Cor 3:12-15

1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

This passage doesn’t exclude the possibility of purgatory at all. Being in purgatory is a state of being embraced by God’s burning love. Once your in purgatory you are guaranteed to be with God forever as well so I don’t see how Purgatory doesn’t fit right into this.

 

[thistle]

Hello,

I would appreciate any books, tracts, articles, links, and/or commentaries which argue, point by point, the rapture theory. Thank you and God Bless!

catholic.com/tracts/the-rapture

 

[NHInsider]

What is your objection to calling ‘being caught up with Jesus’ the rapture?

Is this some sort of mortal sin?

It’s not the term that is the problem, it’s the soteriological construct (sorry for the jargon - it means theory of salvation) that says that the faithful will not have to undergo the trial/tribulation because Jesus will snatch them up before it happens. It also posits a multi-staged Second-Coming, in which Jesus returns for the faithful and scoops them up, then allows/unleashes all kinds of suffering, then returns in triumph to establish the Kingdom (and then, in some versions, brings about the final end a thousand years later . . .)

But Jesus specifically told His followers to be prepared for the trial, to expect and persevere through persecution. And He never suggested that there would be some “secret” return. In fact Paul wrote in a different, later letter that the resurrection of the dead and the assumption* of the living faithful would be simultaneous: “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” (1 Cor. 15: 52)

*Make no mistake, what Paul is describing here is Assumption, and given the likely date of the writing of 1 Thessalonians, he may well be writing this at least in part in response to the Assumption of the Virgin.

I am puzzled by your question about Purgatory - why would you expect this passage (or, by implication, any passage about the End Times?) to contain references to Purgatory? If you want to see Paul’s teaching on Purgatory, read 1 Cor. 3:10-17.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I’d highly recommend “Rapture” by David B. Currie, which looks at premillenialist beliefs from a Catholic perspective and in the context of the rest of the Bible.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

What is your objection to calling ‘being caught up with Jesus’ the rapture?

Is this some sort of mortal sin?

No Catholic objects to the true rapture of Jesus Christ on the last day. But we do object to the anti-biblical lie that says the true believers will be taken up before sinners and then there is a 7 year tribulation and then the end of the world. There is only one second coming. I find it very troubling that “the rapture” as described by some evangelicals is a concept that contradicts the bible and was not heard of until the 1800’s. The whole concept comes about as a notion that “true believers” cannot suffer the tribulation. Personally, I find that notion to be quite a slap in the face to the martyrs.

As to the Scripture you responded to in your other post (1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever) this refers to the living believers being caught up on the last day. There is no mention of another 7 years in this Scripture. That gets added in by a gross manipulation of parts of Daniel and Revelation.

BTW, purgatory ends at the true rapture, so it makes complete sense that the scripture refers to the dead being lifted to the Lord without any mention of purgation. Those who were in the state of final purification are saved and at that time will be lifted to the Lord. We can certainly discuss further on another thread.

 

[Truth_Seeking]

It’s not the term that is the problem, it’s the soteriological construct (sorry for the jargon - it means theory of salvation) that says that the faithful will not have to undergo the trial/tribulation because Jesus will snatch them up before it happens. It also posits a multi-staged Second-Coming, in which Jesus returns for the faithful and scoops them up, then allows/unleashes all kinds of suffering, then returns in triumph to establish the Kingdom (and then, in some versions, brings about the final end a thousand years later . . .)

But Jesus specifically told His followers to be prepared for the trial, to expect and persevere through persecution. And He never suggested that there would be some “secret” return. In fact Paul wrote in a different, later letter that the resurrection of the dead and the assumption* of the living faithful would be simultaneous: “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” (1 Cor. 15: 52)

*Make no mistake, what Paul is describing here is Assumption, and given the likely date of the writing of 1 Thessalonians, he may well be writing this at least in part in response to the Assumption of the Virgin.

I am puzzled by your question about Purgatory - why would you expect this passage (or, by implication, any passage about the End Times?) to contain references to Purgatory? If you want to see Paul’s teaching on Purgatory, read 1 Cor. 3:10-17.

You have made the wrong assumption
that all those who believe that Jesus is going to take them from the earth/rapture
before the tribulation begins

 

[Truth_Seeking]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

BTW Did you notice that there is no mention of purgatory in the word of God here?

What is your objection to calling ‘being caught up with Jesus’ the rapture?

Is this some sort of mortal sin?

I am puzzled by your question about Purgatory - why would you expect this passage (or, by implication, any passage about the End Times?) to contain references to Purgatory? If you want to see Paul’s teaching on Purgatory, read 1 Cor. 3:10-17.

I see a progression in that verse above,
whereby there is no separation from the Lord
Whereas those souls in your purgatory are not with the Lord

 

[Truth_Seeking]

The rapture theory has been condemned by the Vatican in that it preaches the idea that some small group of faithful people on Earth will be taken up to heaven in advance of others on Earth before the second coming. Think Left Behind series idea of the rapture. If you want to call the time when Christ comes and everyone on Earth is judged the “rapture” I guess you could, but that is not how the term has been used.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

.

The rapture theology simply states that we will be caught up to meet the Lord
Some hold to different times.
But you seem to be condemning the ones
who believe it is at the end of time while holding the same theology yourself

 

[lizaanne]

This is an outstanding show about the Rapture from a Catholic perspective: The Rapture

~Liza

 

[Truth_Seeking]

No Catholic objects to the true rapture of Jesus Christ on the last day. But we do object to the anti-biblical lie that says the true believers will be taken up before sinners and then there is a 7 year tribulation and then the end of the world. There is only one second coming. I find it very troubling that “the rapture” as described by some evangelicals is a concept that contradicts the bible and was not heard of until the 1800’s. The whole concept comes about as a notion that “true believers” cannot suffer the tribulation. Personally, I find that notion to be quite a slap in the face to the martyrs.

As to the Scripture you responded to in your other post (1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever) this refers to the living believers being caught up on the last day. There is no mention of another 7 years in this Scripture. That gets added in by a gross manipulation of parts of Daniel and Revelation.

BTW, purgatory ends at the true rapture, so it makes complete sense that the scripture refers to the dead being lifted to the Lord without any mention of purgation. Those who were in the state of final purification are saved and at that time will be lifted to the Lord. We can certainly discuss further on another thread.

Where does the scriptures say
that the rapture applies only to believers,
who are in a final state of purification?

Did you add that to what God has revealed in the scriptures?

 

[Truth_Seeking]

This is an outstanding show about the Rapture from a Catholic perspective: The Rapture

~Liza

I personally believe it is outstanding
to refer me to seek the counsel of the indwelling Holy Spirit
or to refer me to the revelation of God in the scriptures

Why should I want to know about your perspective
if I can have God’s perspective?