Arguments for God?

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Brenlae

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Hi, I was wondering if any of you could link me or post about philosophical arguments for the existence of God. I have a philosophy book, and there are a few arguments for the existence of God, but I was wondering if any of you know of a free online resource available to the public for such arguments.

Thanks in advance! 🙂
 
Start here

And go through St. Aquinas’ writings for a while.

You will be hard pressed to find better argumentation anywhere regarding God, the existence of God, or theology.
 
Hi, I was wondering if any of you could link me or post about philosophical arguments for the existence of God. I have a philosophy book, and there are a few arguments for the existence of God, but I was wondering if any of you know of a free online resource available to the public for such arguments.

Thanks in advance! 🙂
Why do you want arguments for the existence of God?
 
Well, I wish to counter atheists and their arguments against God. 🙂
For what?

Added by edit:

I’m not trying to be obtuse. I’m just trying figure out which arguments would be the best for you. Your intentions will help decide.
 
Frank Sheed
Theology and Sanity

Deep but very satisfying.
And I have found the deth of thought useful for a wide array of arguments.
 
For gaining more faith in God, or to even begin believing in God. For example, I have explained the fact that we live in AD, which started somewhere after Christ’s birth.

I guess that’s a poor example, but logical arguments for the existence of God would be nice.

Thanks! 😃
 
I hope you find the elusive conclusive arguement, I really do, but I have to say, to date, Ive never heard one reasonable convincing arguement for the existence of God. This is not to say there is no God, only that for people like me, the evidence is not there. Someone said, and I cant remember who, that extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. Ultmately they always seem to come down to a point where you have to make that leap of faith, because the evidence cannot be help up beyond there - or they are built on presuppositions and suppositions, again which cannot be held up to scruitiny. Good luck with your arguements and I’d love you to share your final composition.

Sarah x 🙂
 
I hope you find the elusive conclusive arguement, I really do, but I have to say, to date, Ive never heard one reasonable convincing arguement for the existence of God.
Out of curiosity, from the ones you’ve considered, what one comes the closest to convincing you?

(It’s a SOLEMNITY today and I am taking advantage of canon law and posting on the CAFs today!) :dancing:
 
Out of curiosity, from the ones you’ve considered, what one comes the closest to convincing you?

(It’s a SOLEMNITY today and I am taking advantage of canon law and posting on the CAFs today!) :dancing:
That’s a really good question. No particular arguement ever came close to convincing me, I can more or less see immediately where they all break down.

BUT - it’s the people. Some very clever, intelligent, sincere and scientific/inquisitive people ARE convinced there must be a God. This intrigues me, because we know from their personal history they were not indoctrinated in a faith, nor did they blindly accept things.

Yet at some point, they chose to suspend logic and make that leap of faith.

Those people sometimes make me wonder, more than any verbal arguement, which I usually find can be knocked down easily enough.

Sarah x 🙂
 
That’s a really good question. No particular arguement ever came close to convincing me, I can more or less see immediately where they all break down.

BUT - it’s the people. Some very clever, intelligent, sincere and scientific/inquisitive people ARE convinced there must be a God. This intrigues me, because we know from their personal history they were not indoctrinated in a faith, nor did they blindly accept things.

Yet at some point, they chose to suspend logic and make that leap of faith.

Those people sometimes make me wonder, more than any verbal arguement, which I usually find can be knocked down easily enough.

Sarah x 🙂
Funny, I’ve never heard a single argument for how we should think we came into existence by chance that came anywhere near rational… :rolleyes:

It’s almost as if reason has nothing to do with it, and what is ultimately a feeble pretence at logic covers naught but basic inclinations to believe whatever we want to! :eek:
 
That’s a really good question. No particular arguement ever came close to convincing me, I can more or less see immediately where they all break down.
Fair enough.

But what about Mystic Banana’s point? Do you really find it compelling that our existence came by chance and not intent?

Where does the argument about Design break down immediately?

(Unfortunately, I probably won’t be able to address your response until after Easter.) :sad_yes:
 
Funny, I’ve never heard a single argument for how we should think we came into existence by chance that came anywhere near rational… :rolleyes:

It’s almost as if reason has nothing to do with it, and what is ultimately a feeble pretence at logic covers naught but basic inclinations to believe whatever we want to! :eek:
I dont believe we ‘‘came into existence’’ as you put it. I believe we evolved. Sorry, but I havent the time right now to link to all the excellent evolutionary work being done but it’s all out there and easy to find.
I find the logic compelling. Science doesnt not have all the answers, and I dont believe it ever will, because as we find out more, the goal posts move. But the answer, ‘‘I dont know’’ is a perfectly reasonable one to me. There’s no need to move from there, to the supernatural, in my view. The fact we dont know now, just means we have people workinig on it, and we will eventually know.
Look at bacteria, dna, atoms, chromozones - none of which we understood or even knew existed a few centuries back - yet today kids are taught about it in school and its all pretty much common knowledge. That knowledge has allowed us to go on and do wonderful, brillant things for the betterment of mankind.
What was once supernatural - is now natural. We understand. We continue to grow in our understanding. There’s gaps in this understanding for sure - but those gaps dont need to be filled with anything other than ‘‘currently we dont know’’ - in my view of course. I accept I am in the minority and hope Ive contributed in a way that has not caused offence to anyone.

Sarah x 🙂
 
Funny, I’ve never heard a single argument for how we should think we came into existence by chance that came anywhere near rational
I would imagine not, if only because just about no one makes that argument.

The question before us is whether or not we have sufficient evidence to think that a god exists. The question of how we did actually come to be – while an interesting question in its own right – is not relevant to the issue of whether or not the god claim has sufficient support.
It’s almost as if reason has nothing to do with it, and what is ultimately a feeble pretence at logic covers naught but basic inclinations to believe whatever we want to! :eek:
Says the poster who once admitted to me that he believes in ghosts and goblins and other creatures that routinely show up on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
 
The question before us is whether or not we have sufficient evidence to think that a god exists.
I think that evidence exists, or rather that there are things in the world that point us toward God. However I don’t think that any one of those things, analysed in isolation would convince me absolutely that God exists. Before proceeding to examine possible proofs for the existence of this first cause (God), it is important to state that, for most people who believe in God, such formal proofs are not the means by which they conclude that God exists. There appears to be a natural capacity for human beings to perceive God or to infer God, a phenomenon found across a remarkable range of situations and cultures.

Another indication of a natural capacity for belief in God is a tendency that many people have of praying, at least in an inchoate way, in moments of crisis, even when they have had no religious instruction or belief in God has been suppressed in the societies in which they live. Max Hastings, for example, in his history of the battle for Germany in World War II, cites a seventeen year old soldier in the Red Army, Yulia Pozdnyakova, who had never been taught any prayer, inventing some when she found herself being bombed.

Yet another example of an expression of a natural capacity for belief in God is the way in which many people find an acknowledgment of God or at least the use of theistic language to be a natural response to a sense of wonder about the order of the world. Newton, for example, in the ‘General Scholium’ of his Principia Mathematica, the founding document of much of modern science, wrote, “This most beautiful System of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being … And thus much concerning God; to discourse of whom from the appearances of things, does certainly belong to Natural Philosophy’ (‘Experimental Philosophy’ [second edition]).” Although rejecting a personal God, Einstein said, “I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.” This common pattern, articulating a sense of the divine based on a perception of order in nature, also appears in the following homily of St Augustine, preached in the late Roman Empire:

Question the beauty of the earth, question the beauty of the sea … question all these realities. All respond: “See, we are beautiful”. Their beauty is a confession. These beauties are subject to change. Who made them if not the Beautiful One who is not subject to change?

In this homily, St Augustine is expressing a common natural reaction to the order of the world, underpinning a kind of natural inference or sense of God. Such a reaction is not a proof, but it can, nevertheless, be a powerful (perhaps even the decisive) influence on a person’s acceptance of the existence of God. Indeed, reports of such experiences have led some philosophers working on religious epistemology to argue that belief in God can be rational even if this belief is not capable of being justified by an argument. Such philosophers point out that many (perhaps most) of the things that we know, such as what we perceive through our senses, are warranted without formal proofs. These philosophers therefore propose that belief in God is ‘properly basic’, analogous to the warrant that we have for believing in the existence of what we see.
 
Such a reaction [and, in fact, all of the reactions and “natural inclinations” in your post] is not a proof
Indeed.
but it can, nevertheless, be a powerful (perhaps even the decisive) influence on a person’s acceptance of the existence of God.
Absolutely. Here we are in agreement. People can and do start believing in god or gods for no better reason than they just sort of “feel like it.” They have some intuitive sense that the world was “made” by someone or that someone “should” be looking out for them in times of crisis, and that intuition becomes their basis for making a leap to the conclusion that “therefore, there is such a being.”

The problem, of course, is that our intuitive reactions to things are often wrong. For example, our intuitive sense is that the sun goes around the earth, rather than the other way around; our intuitive sense is that the world is flat; our intuitive sense is that we’re at the center of things, etc., etc.

One of the reasons that humans developed evidence-based inquiry is the fact that our natural perceptive faculties are so often dead wrong about the world around us.

It’s not surprising that creatures whom evolution has equipped with brains that specialize in pattern-recognition would leap to conclusions like, “Someone made the world I live in” or “Someone controls the things that are out of the control of any human” – but to use such intuitive leaps as the basis for accepting claims about the world is not only to make a mistake but to get it all spectacularly backwards.

We are fallible, flawed creatures who jump to all kinds of assumptions because that’s the kind of creature we are. To turn outward to the world of experience and to use data from the world to come to conclusions – tentative conclusions based on the best evidence available – is to attempt to rectify the problem. To turn inward to the world of our own “intuitive” assumptions is to miss the boat entirely and to get lost in a dream world that just kind of “feels good.”
 
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