Arguments of A High School Atheist

[highschoolkid]

Thanks to all have replied. I think I didn’t make this clear but I didn’t actually talk to the kid. I just listened to him speak quietly and ranting and didn’t say anything. I didn’t say anything for a few reasons. First, I don’t know the kid or have talked to him before and just from the way he acts I don’t think he would listen to me even if I made a well presented and calm case. But lastly and the main reason is that his arguments were so ignorant of faith and not rational or well thought out I just let it go. I thought his arguments were interesting to say the least and and be nice about things. I posted to make sure that my would-be counter arguments are on the right track and I think they are. If he would have said something more rational, well though out, or scientific based I might have said something. Not to sound arrogant but I’ve looked into and read about more thought requiring subjects of theology and apologetics so thinking of some possible counter arguments was no problem for me. Some of them would include evidence for God, the soul, afterlife, Christianity and evolution and other big questions one might have about faith. I think I’ve benefited from researching and asking questions about my faith. When I started in 7th grade I had a lot of questions and was kind of doubting but know that many of those questions have been answered I’d say that my faith is at the strongest it’s ever been at. As far as the atheist student I don’t think I’d really confront him as I have better things to do than try to explain things to him and argue, if he feels confident in his atheism then fine, I can’t do anything about it. It’s his life. Like my dad said, you can’t change people, they have to make their own decision to change. Thanks again, Joseph

 

[Robertanthony]

Thanks to all have replied. I think I didn’t make this clear but I didn’t actually talk to the kid. I just listened to him speak quietly and ranting and didn’t say anything. I didn’t say anything for a few reasons. First, I don’t know the kid or have talked to him before and just from the way he acts I don’t think he would listen to me even if I made a well presented and calm case. But lastly and the main reason is that his arguments were so ignorant of faith and not rational or well thought out I just let it go. I thought his arguments were interesting to say the least and and be nice about things. I posted to make sure that my would-be counter arguments are on the right track and I think they are. If he would have said something more rational, well though out, or scientific based I might have said something. Not to sound arrogant but I’ve looked into and read about more thought requiring subjects of theology and apologetics so thinking of some possible counter arguments was no problem for me. Some of them would include evidence for God, the soul, afterlife, Christianity and evolution and other big questions one might have about faith. I think I’ve benefited from researching and asking questions about my faith. When I started in 7th grade I had a lot of questions and was kind of doubting but know that many of those questions have been answered I’d say that my faith is at the strongest it’s ever been at. As far as the atheist student I don’t think I’d really confront him as I have better things to do than try to explain things to him and argue, if he feels confident in his atheism then fine, I can’t do anything about it. It’s his life. Like my dad said, you can’t change people, they have to make their own decision to change. Thanks again, Joseph

Bro, seriously, I’m impressed with you. Also, you’re wise to not engage when you know the other is dead-set in his views, the Bible is quite straightforward when it talks about “pearls” and “swines”. Your father is wise, too.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Veritas

**Oh for Pete’s sake. Atheists don’t have a god belief. If they don’t have a god belief, how can they be angry at God? **

Read Paul Vitz’ Faith of the Fatherless and you will find out how.

 

[Robertanthony]

Veritas

**Oh for Pete’s sake. Atheists don’t have a god belief. If they don’t have a god belief, how can they be angry at God? **

Read Paul Vitz’ Faith of the Fatherless and you will find out how.

Thanks for pointing that out, Charlemagne. Case in point, I have 3 siblings, 2 out of the 4 of us are atheists, my father, God have mercy on him, could have been a better witness to the faith and a better father altogether. He was a bully and an angry man. I suppose that’s what the book you’re quoting talks about. As for the 2 others, our relationship with God is strained to say the least, i know mine is. Sadly, I’m two-minded about Him. Dear God, have mercy on us.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Robert

Yes, Vitz ascribes to many famous atheists (and this is well documented in his book) a struggle with their fathers. Since the earthly father comes to be lost or repudiated, by extension the heavenly Father is included in that distancing or rebellion.

I have seen it in my own life.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Veritas

**Oh for Pete’s sake. Atheists don’t have a god belief. If they don’t have a god belief, how can they be angry at God? **

Read Paul Vitz’ Faith of the Fatherless and you will find out how.

Yes, and exposure to too many obese people is responsible for Buddhism.
Seeing someone with too many arms at the circus explains Hinduism.
Islam exists because some people had allergic reactions to pork.

Whatever.

 

[Eleve]

Having been fully engrossed in atheistic communities, I have to say, this is bizarre. Almost all atheists do not believe in heaven, hell, limbo, purgatory or any such place. Maybe you could ask him why he believes in these places but not God. For curiosity, if for nothing else.

My guess is that he means that according to the Bible atheists do not go to hell.

I mean, he’d be pretty obviously wrong about that as well, but at least it’s a bit less crazy.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

He claims to be an atheist (in my observation, another term for “angry with God”) yet he believes in an afterlife (Hell, Heaven, limbo etc.). That’s a grave incoherence for starters .

I think the most “misotheists” is a candidate term. There are people that believe there is a god, but hate that god.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

When someone asks that question, I always feel like facepalming. God by definition is a necessary (never created/eternal) being. Anyone who asks the question is simply asking a loaded question that ignores the definition of the Christian God. It is easily rejected.

I understand this is part of the deginition provided in Catholicism, but it is not included in all the definitions of God provided by the text of religions outside catholicism. Some one asking thst question isnt necessarily ignoring the definition you know. It is quit possible such a person was not raised with familiarity of that definition.

 

[ccmnxc]

I understand this is part of the deginition provided in Catholicism, but it is not included in all the definitions of God provided by the text of religions outside catholicism. Some one asking thst question isnt necessarily ignoring the definition you know. It is quit possible such a person was not raised with familiarity of that definition.

Fair point.

 

[empther]

Joseph,

I got my first taste of St. Thomas Aquinas in high school.
I couldn’t follow all his arguments at that time, he is sublime, but over the years I got to understand him better.

He is the ultimate theologian.
Print out a few pages and read them in your hand. You’ll love it.

Summa Theological ( Summary of Theology )

newadvent.org/summa/

Summa Contra Gentiles ( “on the truth of the Catholic church” )

dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles.htm

 

[Robertanthony]

Yes, and exposure to too many obese people is responsible for Buddhism.
Seeing someone with too many arms at the circus explains Hinduism.
Islam exists because some people had allergic reactions to pork.

Whatever.

Let the truth illuminate me, make sure you don’t systematically deflect it. I don’t know where you’re getting at with this nonsense. Perhaps you don’t know about the unconscious, where people will do stuff for reasons they don’t know of or that they’d rather not know of. We humans aren’t so bad at lying to our own selves. I contend that when you go beyond the surface, if you scratch a little bit, you’ll find a considerable number of so-called atheists who aren’t. I don’t believe in the existence of Santa Claus but I’m not gonna spew venom and hate towards those who believe he does, unless I have a personal issue with Santa. I hate to have to spoon-feed you that way, though. When someone at work doesn’t get the much-coveted promotion they’ve dreamed of for years and they say with as much conviction as they can muster that they’re not disappointed even though their facial expressions say otherwise, what do you say then? They’re not feeling what they say they aren’t or they’re feeling what they say they aren’t? Don’t always take what people say at face value I guess would be the takeaway lesson.

 

[Gricken]

I guess I 'll start out being on the forum/writing this post by saying hello and giving some background info. My name is Joseph and I’m 14 years old. I’m Catholic and went to a Catholic school from k-8th. I graduated and am currently going to a public high school. I’ve adjusted well and am doing great. I’ve been interested in apologetics since 7th grade when I had some big questions about my faith, life as a Catholic, and various questions about the universe and the world we live in. I’m posting this to confirm that my arguments are in line with Catholic teaching.

With that being said I’d like to to share the arguments of an atheist student at my high school. He started bashing Christianity and Catholicism and belief in God. This came out of no where in my PE class when someone said “Ob my God.” Wasn’t a religious sentence but then the atheist student said “God isn’t real.” Another student said God is real and the believer and atheist went back and forth childishly like that. He went on to say that theists have no evidence of God and that he [the atheist student] has proof God doesn’t exist. His arguments were very ignorant of Christianity in general. I just listened to him give his “proof” to some of the kids in my PE class. I didn’t say anything because I didn’t want to get into an argument with him because I know that he would just ignore me based on the way he acts and that I don’t know him.

1. His first argument was that God is not real because we do not have pictures of Him and we don’t know what God looks like.

My response to this would be we don’t know what God looks like because He exists out of space and time. Also, I don’t think God would really look like a physical object. But we know He is there by the way he acts upon our universe, us, and everything he created. We obviously can’t take pictures of Him because he isn’t really a physical object.

1. His second “proof” was that God and Jesus do not exist because no one is living who has seen them.

My objection to this would be no one who is living has seen God but people can see how He interacts with us and everything created. No one living has seen Jesus because he died 2,000 years ago. But some of the original Christians saw and interacted with Jesus personally, face to face. Because of this, people’s experience with God and faith Christianity has carried on for so many generations up until now and hopefully a very very long way into the future.

1. His next statement was “Only religious people go to heaven or hell and those who are lost or atheists go to a limbo/void/empty place.” And “The bible says that. I’m not even Christian and I’ve read the bible and using your own book against you.”

My response to this would be you either go to heaven, hell, or purgatory. There is no special/dark/empty/void place for atheists or “lost” people. I would say you either go to heaven or hell in the end based on your actions on earth not matter what your beliefs are. Also, I would like him to state where in the bible he read these things. I’m posative that not one verse in the bible says that atheists spiritually lost people go to a void.

1. His last main statement was about evolution. To sum it up he told one of the Christian kids that evolution dismisses faith in God.

I would say he is completely wrong about this. From what I’ve read, evolution is very much compatible with Christianity and Catholicism as long as you acknowledge that God is the prime mover/creator and that we acknowledge that God interacts with us and we each have souls. I know that if whether you think evolution is true or not it doesn’t effect Christianity. IMO the bible is not a science book but a theology book and guideline to our faith. Genesis tells us that God created everyhing including us not how. My opinion is that God is the creator and his mechanism of the development of the universe, life, and us is evolution.

1. Just to add he told one of the Christian kids that he wants to make him an atheist by the time they graduate.

I don’t really have anything to say about that as it’s not my problem or life.

To finish my first post up I’d like to hear your opinions on my counter arguments to his “proof” for God not existing. To add, I’m not a super religious person but I do think that my Catholic faith is an important thing to know and think about and will help set a pathway and morals for my future. Thank you for your time, Joseph

As a fellow catholic in high school I’ve heard many of these same arguments. The issue is less that they have concrete arguments, and more that they are too thick headed to even think someone could debate against it. If he continues. Just tell him to do his research before making statements like that. Sometimes it isn’t worth arguing with them.

Glad to see I’m not the only young catholic who deals with this stuff. (The chat’s I’ve had online… ) Keep up the good work!