Arizona Catholic Conference Bishops’ Statement Opposing the Death Penalty

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As I pointed out, by setencing a murderer to prison, you have just equated the victim’s life with his murderer’s liberty.
This gets to the point raised in the Catechism of Trent: the penalty for murder is so great because the sin is so heinous. We have pretty much lost that sense of the depravity of the crime.

The murderer is the worst enemy of his species, and consequently of nature. To the utmost of his power he destroys the universal work of God by the destruction of man, since God declares that He created all things for man’s sake. Nay, as it is forbidden in Genesis to take human life, because God created man to his own image and likeness, he who makes away with God’s image offers great injury to God, and almost seems to lay violent hands on God Himself!

We are told specifically not simply that man is made in God’s image but that the penalty for murder is death *because *man is made in God’s image. The Church has always accepted this because that is the plain meaning of Genesis 9:6. I think this is the perspective she still has - which explains the inclusion of section 2260 and the comment that “This teaching remains necessary for all time.” As you said, life in prison is not a punishment commensurate with the taking of life.

Ender
 
As I pointed out, by setencing a murderer to prison, you have just equated the victim’s life with his murderer’s liberty. It seems then that your position is that all lives are valuable but some are more valuable than others.
What liberty? Spending the rest of one’s life in a prison is hardly liberty. It is ample punishment in most murder cases, and the death penalty can come ito play in narrow circumstances.
 
As you said, life in prison is not a punishment commensurate with the taking of life.
That is certain what many believe, and there are circumstances under which your statement holds true, but the death penalty is never required - even then - and the Church has never opposed substitution of long term imprisonment for the death penalty.
 
I am confused. So Catholics cant support the death penalty? Isnt the church telling us what to think? Im going to yelled.at for saying that…😦
Hmm. I remember reading that the early Church opposed the death penalty. Not sure tho, since St Paul did justify civil authorities imposing the ‘ultimate penalty,’ didn’t he??
 
Hmm. I remember reading that the early Church opposed the death penalty. Not sure tho, since St Paul did justify civil authorities imposing the ‘ultimate penalty,’ didn’t he??
This is not accurate; in fact the reverse is true.

*Turning to Christian tradition, we may note that the Fathers and Doctors of the Church are virtually unanimous in their support for capital punishment *(Cardinal Dulles, 2001)

*It must be remembered that power was granted by God [to the magistrates], and to avenge crime by the sword was permitted. He who carries out this vengeance is God’s minister (Rm 13:1-4). Why should we condemn a practice that all hold to be permitted by God? We uphold, therefore, what has been observed until now, in order not to alter the discipline and so that we may not appear to act contrary to God’s authority. *(Innocent I, 405)

Opposition to capital punishment is a purely modern phenomenon.

Ender
 
If I had to choose between life in prison with no chance of parole or capital punishment I would choose capital punishment.
 
This is not accurate; in fact the reverse is true.

*Turning to Christian tradition, we may note that the Fathers and Doctors of the Church are virtually unanimous in their support for capital punishment *(Cardinal Dulles, 2001)

*It must be remembered that power was granted by God [to the magistrates], and to avenge crime by the sword was permitted. He who carries out this vengeance is God’s minister (Rm 13:1-4). Why should we condemn a practice that all hold to be permitted by God? We uphold, therefore, what has been observed until now, in order not to alter the discipline and so that we may not appear to act contrary to God’s authority. *(Innocent I, 405)
Thanks Ender! Good to get clarification on that.
 
Turning to Christian tradition, we may note that the Fathers and Doctors of the Church are virtually unanimous in their support for capital punishment (Cardinal Dulles, 2001)
Virtually unanimous, not unanimous. Note that those churchmen did not howl for the death penalty to always be applied. The fact that it is permissible or that most (not all!) supported it not make it mandatory, even in the Church’s opinion.
 
"Ender:
Opposition to capital punishment is a purely modern phenomenon.
True enough, but it does not invalidate that opposition.
You are much too indifferent to the idea that moral truths don’t change with time and place, and way too comfortable with the idea that there are no problems with the Church reversing her position on moral issues. This is the kind of thing that convinces people that they may take whatever position they like on issues and offer the excuse that, since the Church changed her mind on capital punishment, they are justified in believing she will change her mind on (e.g.) contraception and homosexuality.

The Church has not and cannot change her mind on capital punishment; the morality of the death penalty is not hers to decide. What she offers today is not a condemnation of the moral basis of capital punishment; it is a perspective on the side effects executions have on a secular populace. She considers it harmful, not immoral. The fact is that the Church disapproves of its use from practical considerations, not ethical ones.

Ender
 
The Church is supposed to tell us what to think on matters of morality and faith.

What is not being understood here by the readership is what the bishops are saying. They are not retracting what the Church has always taught regarding capital punishment. We can’t use that tired argument that the Church believed something for X number of years and now discovers that it’s wrong. That’s not what is happening. Circumstances change. Today, we have other means to protect society.

The Church looks at the bigger picture. Capital punishment is not stopping crime. We still have a high crime rate. The moral value of capital punishment is to protect the vulnerable. The vulnerable are still being hurt. You kill Mr. X and he’s replaced by Mr. Y. The Church looks at the whole thing and says, "This does not work the way that it is intended to work. It becomes a barbaric act to appease public indignation, not protection of the vulnerable.

The Church cannot allow the State to act without moral rules. It’s very dangerous to say, “The State has a God-given right to execute criminals” and leave it at that.

Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict, lived under the Nazis and Communists saw how the state abused capital punishment. The state declared anything that was opposed to its interests as a crime and then proceeded to execute. Being a Jew was a crime. Political dissent was a crime. In Saudi Arabia, being gay is a crime. In Iran, converting to Christianity is a crime. To say that the State can execute criminals, because God said so, without explaining to people and to the State how and when God wants the State to use that power, is also a crime.

They declared all kinds a capital offenses and millions of people died. Americans live in a bubble. But the Catholic Church does not exist in a bubble. She has to look at the big picture. We have never lived in Germany, China, The Soviet Union, Saudi Arabia, etc. It sounds fine to us to just say “The state has a divine right to execute.” Sure, because we don’t have a State that has said that sleeping with your neighbor is a capital offense. If you had a gay son and it was a captial offense, you may have second thoughts about giving the State unrestrained power.

Government abuses of power during the life of the Church has caused the Church to realize that she cannot let government rule without moral rules. There is a right and a wrong time to use capital punishment. There are resources that have not been used and other resources that are wasted.

In our country, we say that it would be a burden on the taxpayer to lock people away for life. However, we have capital punishment for the unborn. It’s a multi-trillion dollar industry. Now, we have a government that is willing to put billions of dollars to subsidize it, but if you tell the tax-payer to shift those funds toward a better prison system and toward reforming the legal system, they say it’s too expensive.

The Church must remind us that the way that we use capital punishment is immoral. We’re using it because we can’t afford to keep people in jail, not because we can’t do it. It’s a financial issue not a “technical” issue as it was in the 1200s or some such date. We invest a lot of money in areas that do not serve the common good. The common man, you and I, are being forced to pay for things that do not benefit the common good of the nation or the world. How much do you and I pay for abortions in foreign countries, to bail out bank executives?

Then there is human dignity. The Church has never denied this. This goes back to the Gospels. We see it in the story of the woman caught in adultery. Christ treats her with dignity. The law said that the State had the right to execute. Did Christ violate the divine law by intervening? His statement is very clear. “let him who has no sin throw the first stone.” He’s pointing out a fact. Revelation said that execution had to be just. not arbitrary and illegal. In this case, the law was that the couple had to be punished. Where was the partner? “You can’t kill this woman while you’re violating the moral law.” That’s what he’s telling them.

The Church never supported arbitrary capital punishment. During the existence of the Holy Roman Empire, all laws concerning capital punishment needed the approval of the Holy See. The Church always regulated this practice.

During the Middle Ages, Francis of Assis founded the first Secular Order in the Catholic Church. Which today is the largest order in the Catholic Church. It’s a true order, not a club. He wrote into it rule that no brother or sister of the order could take up arms in defense of any nation, nor could any member of the order make use of execution without the consent of the bishop. Many of these Secular Franciscans were law makers and monarchs. They had to get permission to use capital punishment and to go to war or suffer excommunication.

The Church lost control over capital punishemnt after the American and French Revolution, because both systems were very anti-clerical and ati Catholic.

The Church is also interested in providing any sinner the opportunity for conversion. If you kill someone, you don’t leave much room for that. We have seen some powerful conversion by people who committed horrible crimes.

Franciscans have always admitted ex-convicts to the order. There was Alessandro Frasseti who killed Maria Goretti (sp?). When I was a novice, I had the privilege of living in the cell next to Brother Jim Townsend who murdered his pregnant wife. He’s a very holy man. I’m not revealing anyting confidential here. His story is well known. Someone wrote a book about him.

americancatholic.org/Messenger/Jul2007/books.asp

Those who know Jim and have been served by him would tell you that there is great value in using other means to correct the sinner.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
What liberty? Spending the rest of one’s life in a prison is hardly liberty. It is ample punishment in most murder cases, and the death penalty can come ito play in narrow circumstances.
As Ipointed out, punishment is supposed to be equal to the crime. By giving a murder a prison sentence, you take away his liberty in retribution for his crime. However, since punishment is supposed to be equal, you have just equated the murder’s liberty with his victim’s life.
 
Today, we have other means to protect society.
Perhaps the worst aspect of 2267 is that it has mislead people about the nature of punishment to such an extent that punishment’s primary objective has been forgotten or, worse, ignored. Protecting society is a secondary objective and of itself does not justify punishment and cannot set its limits.
Capital punishment is not stopping crime.
Neither is imprisonment - should we abandon that as well? Deterrence is another secondary objective; it is not primary.
The Church cannot allow the State to act without moral rules. It’s very dangerous to say, “The State has a God-given right to execute criminals” and leave it at that… Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict, lived under the Nazis and Communists saw how the state abused capital punishment.
The key word here is “abused”. Individuals and States abuse all kinds of freedoms. The Church defines moral boundaries and holds people accountable for disregarding them, she does not re-define morality because some people abuse their authority.
Government abuses of power during the life of the Church has caused the Church to realize that she cannot let government rule without moral rules.
I’m mystified that you could think the Church has not provided moral rules regarding punishment, but unless you recognize what punishment is meant to accomplish you may not recognize what those guidelines are. The primary objective of punishment is retribution - justice - and the State is obligated to impose a punishment that is neither too severe nor too lenient; that is, the punishment must fit the crime. There’s your moral rule.
The Church must remind us that the way that we use capital punishment is immoral. We’re using it because we can’t afford to keep people in jail, not because we can’t do it.
This is incorrect; this is not at all what the Church has said, even in 2267.
Then there is human dignity. The Church has never denied this. This goes back to the Gospels.
I have never understood this argument. The Church recognized the validity of capital punishment at least until 1995. Are you suggesting that human dignity did not exist before then or that it took the Church nearly two millennia to discover she was violating it?
The Church is also interested in providing any sinner the opportunity for conversion.
Rehabilitation is a valid objective … it is also only a secondary one.

Ender
 
IMHO, I’ve gone from being staunchly pro- death penalty to almost being totally against it.
I think that in certain cases it is a fitting and well deserved sentence. Joseph Duncan being at the top of that list. However, we all have offended our Father, and we also deserve death and He offers us pardon, forgiveness, and love. Charity triumphs over justice, and I think that we are to emulate that.
God only forgives those who seek his forgiveness and his punishment for not seeking forgiveness is eternal damnation.

My only concern regarding murder and consider this. A murder victim who has mortal sin on his or her soul. No priest present to offer absolution. The murderer has a priest and years to prepare to meet the justice of Christ. Where is the Justice. The Bishops are done praying for the victims already and haven’t given them a thought for years until the murderer is threatened with death.

If a murderer could be welded in their cell, and actually contemplates the meaning of salvation and prays the hours for the remission of his victims sins until natural death then their may be justice. But denying the opportunity for someone to avoid eternal damnation through the Sacraments is worse than mere execution of the body.

Every situation must be judged on it’s own individual set of circumstances.

God Love Ya

DC
 
The Church has not and cannot change her mind on capital punishment; the morality of the death penalty is not hers to decide. What she offers today is not a condemnation of the moral basis of capital punishment; it is a perspective on the side effects executions have on a secular populace. She considers it harmful, not immoral. The fact is that the Church disapproves of its use from practical considerations, not ethical ones.
Whatever it takes. I know this much - we’ll see less and less use of the death penalty in America and in the civilized world until it’s thing of the past. I don’t expect China or Iran or N. Korea, etc. to change, however.
 
The Church recognized the validity of capital punishment at least until 1995. Are you suggesting that human dignity did not exist before then or that it took the Church nearly two millennia to discover she was violating it?
It also recognized the validity of slavery for over a millenia. Just because there are objective moral truths does not mean that the Church always acknowledged or adhered to them.
 
Whatever it takes. I know this much - we’ll see less and less use of the death penalty in America and in the civilized world until it’s thing of the past. I don’t expect China or Iran or N. Korea, etc. to change, however.
True! We agree Rich!
 
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