Arlington Diocese parishioners question need for fidelity oath

[markomalley]

DECEPTIVE TITLE WARNING

From the Washington Post:
Kathleen Riley knows her beliefs on the male-only priesthood and contraception put her at odds with leaders of her church. But as a fifth-generation Catholic who went to a Catholic school and grew up to teach in one, Riley feels the faith deeply woven through her. So when her Arlington parish asked for volunteers last summer to teach Sunday school, she felt called by the Holy Spirit to say yes.

A year later, the 52-year-old computer scientist feels the same spirit calling her to say no.

Last month, Riley joined at least four other Sunday school teachers and resigned from her post at St. Ann’s parish after a letter arrived at her home requiring her — and all teachers in the Arlington Catholic Diocese — to submit “of will and intellect” to all of the teachings of church leaders.

Although the St. Ann’s teachers represent a tiny fraction of the diocese’s 5,000 Sunday and parochial school teachers, the letter went out to parishes just as classes were finishing for the summer and diocese officials says they do not know how many teachers have received it.

The Arlington Diocese, which includes nearly a half-million Catholics across northern and eastern Virginia, is one of a small but growing number that are starting to demand fidelity oaths. The oaths reflect a churchwide push in recent years to revive orthodoxy that has sharply divided Catholics.

The deceptive title is that Catechists are required to sign a “profession of faith”…not all parishioners.

WHAT A SCANDAL. Imagine! Requiring that catechists profess loyalty to the Faith. That they profess the Nicene Creed (albeit using the defective translation that, thankfully, was purged from the liturgy at the beginning of Advent, 2012). That they assent to the teachings of the Church. Heavens.

The only thing scandalous that I can see is that the formula for the Nicene Creed was a defective (and now thankfully obsolete) translation.

 

[IrishRush]

I think the diocese is well within its rights to ask this of its catechists. If they’re to teach the faith to the children, the Church must be sure of their beliefs. I also am a catechist and would have no issue with a request such as this.

 

[YoungTradCath]

One wonders why any Catholic at all would be hesitant to sign such.

 

[JimG]

Certainly one would expect that anyone who is a catechist would have no objection to teaching the truths of the Church. That is their job, after all. The rather shocking thing, though, is that some do not know just what the Church teaches, and so substitute their own opinion.

 

[anp1215]

Good. If they’re at odds with the Church, they have no business teaching religion. Imagine how much longer these people would have kept teaching, and most likely spreading their misguided beliefs, if the parish hadn’t requested this.

It infuriates me that people who don’t agree with the Church try to teach religion classes.

 

[triumphguy]

I expect catechists to be orthodox Catholics, otherwise they are leading innocent people into error.

However…

I can understand how one might be totally orthodox in one’s beliefs but still balk at signing an oath.

It’s like saying to a decent man, we need you to sign an oath pledging not to abuse your wife and children.

And the decent man (DM) might say I don’t and won’t abuse them so why should I sign. I promised my wife before God and the community to love, honour and cherish her all the days of my life. I don’t need to sign your pledge.

*Well if you won’t abuse them anyway why not sign? *

DM: It is insulting to me to be asked to sign. I refuse.

The way you are behaving about this it seems you have a problem with authority.

DM: I don’t have a problem with authority!

See denial - it’s the first sign. So denial, problems with authority - I bet your wife and kids are in danger too.

We don’t need oaths and pledges, we need decent and orthodox leaders, leading by example.

Also, I would be very wary of a school board asking for an oath of fidelity to Catholic teaching. A bunch of politicians (possibly with very dodgy Catholic credentials) whose only interest in getting oaths of fidelity is to prove Catholicity to a government so they can maintain their independence from the public board and so their financing? Gimme a break! (This is a Canadian example here)

Anyway - how come the parish priest doesn’t know the catechists? I would expect the parish priest to be totally in control of all catechetical programs in their parishes. They should know who is orthodox and who isn’t.

Getting someone to sign a pledge is a cop-out.

I’ve been asked to lead RCIA in the fall. The parish has asked me to go through yet another security screening.

In the past 2 years I’ve done 7 different security background checks, including fingerprints: for the diaconate program, for the school board, for the parish already, for my daughter’s school, for my hunting and firearms licences, and to volunteer at my son’s school. Security checks don’t prove you’re a good guy, they just prove you are not in the system yet! I’m sick of these useless checks and feel like saying “No, ask the diocese if I’m good to go.”

In the same way a pledge of fidelity doesn’t prove anything.

I could totally and honestly believe that the “magisterium of the faithful” supercedes all else, including the Pope and Bishops, and believe that this is a valid teaching of the church, and I could (in utter ignorance of the Truth) pledge fidelity, oblivious in my lack of knowledge. And so go on blithely teaching the kids absolute nonsense.

No! The parish priests need to be in charge.

 

[Faith_Friend]

Good. If they’re at odds with the Church, they have no business teaching religion. Imagine how much longer these people would have kept teaching, and most likely spreading their misguided beliefs, if the parish hadn’t requested this.

It infuriates me that people who don’t agree with the Church try to teach religion classes.

Agreed. A clean and devoted mind is best.

 

[april32010]

Agreed. A clean and devoted mind is best.

actually when i first heard about this i would have also, :coffeeread: but having read triumphguy’s post i i have to regroup.and i have to say he makes some very valid points. :newidea:

 

[Neofight]

I think every parish should have all members take a similar oath to church teachings before allowing them to receive the Eucharist…not!..just pointing out the absurdity!

 

[triumphguy]

actually when i first heard about this i would have also, :coffeeread: but having read triumphguy’s post i i have to regroup.and i have to say he makes some very valid points. :newidea:

Thank you!

 

[George_Stegmeir]

This is nothing but the Bishop enforcing obedience to orthodox teaching upon the laity. It is something that has been all but forgotten since V II where almost anyone could interpret scripture and the catachism any way they wanted.
Hurray and huzzah! It has been a long time in coming, Thanks be to G*d!

 

[Dale_M]

The deceptive title is that Catechists are required to sign a “profession of faith”…not all parishioners.

That is true regarding the Diocese of Arlington. The article also mentions the Diocese of Baker, which covers a broader range.
Bishop Robert Vasa:

The Church requires the making of a Profession of Faith by various persons when they undertake specific duties related to Church administration and teaching. (cf. Canon 833) In the Diocese of Baker this has been expanded to include those who take on the ecclesial duties of Catechist, Liturgical Reader, Cantor, Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and other Church positions which entail a presumption of orthodoxy.

dioceseofbaker.org/DIOCESAN_DOCUMENTS/Pastoral%20Guidelines.pdf

The article also mentions the Diocese of Oakland, where the board members of Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministry were recently tasked to affirm an “Oath of Integrity.” It was indicated that refusal could lead to the organization being declared “not authentically Catholic.”

So the orthodoxy oaths do seem to affect more than just catechists, at least in some parts of the country. But I agree with you that the headline is seriously misleading because it gives the impression that every single parishioner in the Diocese of Arlington is being scrutinized.

 

[FloridaJoan]

Imagine … being required to teach the Catholic faith in accordance with Church teachings …

Orthodoxy … Wonderful ! :thumbsup:

Bring it to all dioceses … PLEASE !

 

[PaulinVA]

This has been swirling around the diocese since the letters were originally sent out.

A couple of disloyal Catholics went to the *Post *and Michelle Boorstein, as she loves to do, wrote a piece that gives dissenters a voice and the rabble a chance to post anti-Catholic comments.

I have no problem signing an oath like this.

If you read the article, the women who are complaining are basically saying that they go to a Catholic parish for community. * ““This is not in the spirit of what people go to a Catholic church for, which is community and a loving, welcoming environment. It’s exclusionary, a suppression of dissent, let’s all line up and be the army of God,” Zagarri said in an interview for this article.”

*My response to these people is that I am really glad that you are still coming to Mass even though you are struggling with your faith. However, you are not getting within a country mile of teaching our children. Sorry.

 

[Neofight]

Next time you’re at Mass, look to your right, to your left, in front of you, and behind you…which one(s) is the heretic! My, my!

 

[anp1215]

Next time you’re at Mass, look to your right, to your left, in front of you, and behind you…which one(s) is the heretic! My, my!

Who cares if they’re at Mass? I don’t want them teaching anyone anything about Catholicism.

 

[fix]

I expect catechists to be orthodox Catholics, otherwise they are leading innocent people into error.

However…

I can understand how one might be totally orthodox in one’s beliefs but still balk at signing an oath.

I cannot imagine why. Unless it is simply pride which is a sin.

It’s like saying to a decent man, we need you to sign an oath pledging not to abuse your wife and children.

No it is not like that at all. This is about teaching the faith. That requires that one accepts the faith. If one wants to teach but rejects Church authority one has no right to teach.

It would be like asking an officer in the Army to take an oath to defend the constitution while the person is really a communist. It is false and unjust.

And the decent man (DM) might say I don’t and won’t abuse them so why should I sign. I promised my wife before God and the community to love, honour and cherish her all the days of my life. I don’t need to sign your pledge.

*Well if you won’t abuse them anyway why not sign? *

DM: It is insulting to me to be asked to sign. I refuse.

Again, pride.

The way you are behaving about this it seems you have a problem with authority.

DM: I don’t have a problem with authority!

See denial - it’s the first sign. So denial, problems with authority - I bet your wife and kids are in danger too.

We don’t need oaths and pledges, we need decent and orthodox leaders, leading by example.

We need oaths and more of them. Good Catholics would line up to do so.

Also, I would be very wary of a school board asking for an oath of fidelity to Catholic teaching. A bunch of politicians (possibly with very dodgy Catholic credentials) whose only interest in getting oaths of fidelity is to prove Catholicity to a government so they can maintain their independence from the public board and so their financing? Gimme a break! (This is a Canadian example here)

Anyway - how come the parish priest doesn’t know the catechists? I would expect the parish priest to be totally in control of all catechetical programs in their parishes. They should know who is orthodox and who isn’t.

Getting someone to sign a pledge is a cop-out.

I’ve been asked to lead RCIA in the fall. The parish has asked me to go through yet another security screening.

In the past 2 years I’ve done 7 different security background checks, including fingerprints: for the diaconate program, for the school board, for the parish already, for my daughter’s school, for my hunting and firearms licences, and to volunteer at my son’s school. Security checks don’t prove you’re a good guy, they just prove you are not in the system yet! I’m sick of these useless checks and feel like saying “No, ask the diocese if I’m good to go.”

In the same way a pledge of fidelity doesn’t prove anything.

I could totally and honestly believe that the “magisterium of the faithful” supercedes all else, including the Pope and Bishops, and believe that this is a valid teaching of the church, and I could (in utter ignorance of the Truth) pledge fidelity, oblivious in my lack of knowledge. And so go on blithely teaching the kids absolute nonsense.

No! The parish priests need to be in charge.

For these folks to reject the pledge says all we need to know.

 

[jwinch2]

No! The parish priests need to be in charge.

I see this differently.

First, it is impossible for the parish priest to know the level of assent to Catholic doctrine of every single parishioner. Some of the parishes in the Diocese of Arlington are absolutely massive with upwards of 5 thousand families. Furthermore, in this example, we have a women who knew she was out of line with Church teaching but decided that she wanted to teach anyways. That is a problem and it needs to be remedied.

Secondly, I believe this is more about having the grounds to terminate someone from the position if they are caught teaching heterodoxy. In my experience, it can be difficult to fire someone from such positions without the proper grounds. This gives the pastor firm footing if a problem presents itself.

Finally, the parents who are sending their children to be educated in the Catholic Faith have the right to expect that their kids are being taught the true Faith and not some watered down facsimile. We have to remember that the true teachers of the Faith are the bishops and that catechists are acting under their authority since they cannot be everywhere at once. Thus, the bishop has the responsibility to ensure that those acting in his name are doing so with proper intent.

An article containing commentary on the situation: hancaquam.blogspot.com/2012/07/current-state-of-abysmal-ignorance.html

 

[anp1215]

I cannot imagine why. Unless it is simply pride which is a sin.

No it is not like that at all. This is about teaching the faith. That requires that one accepts the faith. If one wants to teach but rejects Church authority one has no right to teach.

It would be like asking an officer in the Army to take an oath to defend the constitution while the person is really a communist. It is false and unjust.

Again, pride.

We need oaths and more of them. Good Catholics would line up to do so.

For these folks to reject the pledge says all we need to know.

Absolutely. I would have no objection whatsoever to signing such an oath.

I see this differently.

First, it is impossible for the parish priest to know the level of assent to Catholic doctrine of every single parishioner. Some of the parishes in the Diocese of Arlington are absolutely massive with upwards of 5 thousand families. Furthermore, in this example, we have a women who knew she was out of line with Church teaching but decided that she wanted to teach anyways. That is a problem and it needs to be remedied.

Secondly, I believe this is more about having the grounds to terminate someone from the position if they are caught teaching heterodoxy. In my experience, it can be difficult to fire someone from such positions without the proper grounds. This gives the pastor firm footing if a problem presents itself.

Finally, the parents who are sending their children to be educated in the Catholic Faith have the right to expect that their kids are being taught the true Faith and not some watered down facsimile. We have to remember that the true teachers of the Faith are the bishops and that catechists are acting under their authority since they cannot be everywhere at once. Thus, the bishop has the responsibility to ensure that those acting in his name are doing so with proper intent.

An article containing commentary on the situation: hancaquam.blogspot.com/2012/07/current-state-of-abysmal-ignorance.html

My parish has 4,800 registered families. If someone stepped up requesting to teach a class, there’s a good chance the pastor wouldn’t know much about him/her. He’s a good pastor and familiar with many parishioners, but he’s not God!

 

[gus]

I knew a women in the 80s who taught CCD in my town who wasn’t Catholic although she raised her children Catholic.
I guess if you stick to the material and the material is faithful
there shouldn’t be a problem./