Arm around spouse/ date/"nuzzling" in pews during Mass?

[Kathryn_Ann]

Thank you Kathryn! I appreciate the comment. God bless you! Pax and prayers your way!

**Dominque1234,
Dear Brother in Christ,

I am very grateful to you also for the special link you included. (I apologize that my response came over twice: What happened is that my computer froze for several minutes, and I must have hit “send” more than once.)

Either way, your post was quite quote-worthy and the link you included is also quite eye - opening. I see from that link that I need to be more careful about the silence requirements, not that I’ve been starting conversations, but that often, other people, in trying to be friendly, ask after my health, etc., and at times I have felt obliged to whisper a reply. Yet Holy Mass is not the time or place for light or blithe conversations. Those conversations, and those over- the- top public displays of affection are not appropriate during Mass.

The quotes you included and the link also explain quite well just why, (those of us who are able) should dress as modestly and decently as possible and lose ourselves not in each other but focus all attention on the Blessed Sacrament in an all consuming way. This in no way means that we should judge others. It means that we should each do our best to be charitable so that we do not, by our own actions, cause others to fall.

My original post was more about the interior spirit being expressed by our actions. We truly are not to “kick back and relax” as if we are home watching TV together or so self assured or prideful that we forget Whose we are and Whom we are celebrating. Awe and humility seem to go together with both an inner realization and piety, and an outward appearance which expresses our understanding of the Magnificence we are experiencing at Mass.

I truly learned so much from your entire post and I have shared the link you included with several friends.

I believe that the key to understanding how to be during the Mass (spiritually, physically, and in outward appearance) has everything to do with being charitable towards all. We may very well feel we are allowed to express certain PDA’s yet if we truly are to please God and if we truly learn from the Blessed Virgin’s behavior at the Cross, we would do as those you quoted have suggested.

Many things are allowed, but not all are profitable or charitable. Christ, our King, will I hope, teach me that charity and Our Blessed Mother will teach me to emulate her dignity at the Foot of the Cross, and joyfully, at the Empty Tomb.

*To all here *who have responded to my original post, you are all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and in one way or another, I have learned from each of you.

Many blessings to all,
Kathryn Ann**

 

[thewanderer]

Dominique, I’m not trying to pick a fight with you or anything, but I would just like to point out that no matter how hard you try, you will always give your spouse a different sign of peace than you do to other people. The reason I say this is from my own experience, as someone who isn’t even married yet, and who always gives a handshake to my FH at the sign of Peace. Whenever I give him a handshake at the sign of peace there is always more involved, than with others, from the way the hand is shook to the way you look at each other. I can understand wanting to have a uniform sign for everyone, to help emphasize the unity of everyone, but no matter how hard you try you will not be able to remove the inequality in the sign of peace, and there’s a reason for that, a good and natural reason, because some people have a closer personal union and so are more aware of their union together in Christ than their union with others in Christ, so it effects them more deeply and they will respond accordingly.

 

[Dominique1234]

I’m not projecting anything. I don’t care what they’re motivations are; that’s irrelevant. I’m saying it is irreverent and disrespectful to Christ to focus on your spouse at His expense.

I’m not easily distracted at Mass. During the Liturgy of the Word, my eyes and ears are on the celebrant, lector, and the cantor. During the Liturgy of the Eucharist, my eyes and ears are on the celebrant at the altar. I’m not bothering with this thread because of me–I’m here because of Christ.

Like I said, I don’t know why people do the things they do, and I don’t care. What I’m saying is to be reverent. If you were on Calvary watching Christ die on the cross, would you nuzzle your spouse? Don’t do it at Mass!

Very well spoken. Great example because that’s exactly what is happening at the Mass. God bless you.

 

[Dominique1234]

Dominique, I’m not trying to pick a fight with you or anything, but I would just like to point out that no matter how hard you try, you will always give your spouse a different sign of peace than you do to other people. The reason I say this is from my own experience, as someone who isn’t even married yet, and who always gives a handshake to my FH at the sign of Peace. Whenever I give him a handshake at the sign of peace there is always more involved, than with others, from the way the hand is shook to the way you look at each other. I can understand wanting to have a uniform sign for everyone, to help emphasize the unity of everyone, but no matter how hard you try you will not be able to remove the inequality in the sign of peace, and there’s a reason for that, a good and natural reason, because some people have a closer personal union and so are more aware of their union together in Christ than their union with others in Christ, so it effects them more deeply and they will respond accordingly.

Thank you for your opinion. I give everyone the same sign of peace at Mass because I see them in a different light. I shake hands with their souls, so to speak. Not with their physical beings. I see the sign of peace as something more than just a courtesy handshake. It’s about offering Christ’s peace to everyone as equals.

It is wrong to assume you know what my mind is thinking. I do love my wife because of our union with Christ through our marriage, and for so many other reasons, but that doesn’t mean I don’t see my neighbor as my equal, which he/she is. This is what I focus on when giving my sign of peace to people, and I know this is what Christ wants of me as an equal to everyone around me.

God bless!

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Dominique1234]

**Dominque1234,
Dear Brother in Christ,

I am very grateful to you also for the special link you included. (I apologize that my response came over twice: What happened is that my computer froze for several minutes, and I must have hit “send” more than once.)

Either way, your post was quite quote-worthy and the link you included is also quite eye - opening. I see from that link that I need to be more careful about the silence requirements, not that I’ve been starting conversations, but that often, other people, in trying to be friendly, ask after my health, etc., and at times I have felt obliged to whisper a reply. Yet Holy Mass is not the time or place for light or blithe conversations. Those conversations, and those over- the- top public displays of affection are not appropriate during Mass.

The quotes you included and the link also explain quite well just why, (those of us who are able) should dress as modestly and decently as possible and lose ourselves not in each other but focus all attention on the Blessed Sacrament in an all consuming way. This in no way means that we should judge others. It means that we should each do our best to be charitable so that we do not, by our own actions, cause others to fall.

My original post was more about the interior spirit being expressed by our actions. We truly are not to “kick back and relax” as if we are home watching TV together or so self assured or prideful that we forget Whose we are and Whom we are celebrating. Awe and humility seem to go together with both an inner realization and piety, and an outward appearance which expresses our understanding of the Magnificence we are experiencing at Mass.

I truly learned so much from your entire post and I have shared the link you included with several friends.

I believe that the key to understanding how to be during the Mass (spiritually, physically, and in outward appearance) has everything to do with being charitable towards all. We may very well feel we are allowed to express certain PDA’s yet if we truly are to please God and if we truly learn from the Blessed Virgin’s behavior at the Cross, we would do as those you quoted have suggested.

Many things are allowed, but not all are profitable or charitable. Christ, our King, will I hope, teach me that charity and Our Blessed Mother will teach me to emulate her dignity at the Foot of the Cross, and joyfully, at the Empty Tomb.

*To all here ***who have responded to my original post, you are all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and in one way or another, I have learned from each of you.

Many blessings to all,
Kathryn Ann

Thank you so much Kathryn Ann for your many words of wisdom. You are a strong woman and continue on your path as a new Catholic! I was a cradle catholic and left the church for a time, but came back to it, thankfully. Since then I’ve made it my purpose to know as much as possible about our wonderful Catholic Faith.

I am thankful for people who do not know what the church teaches and give their opinions on things. This forces me to re evaluate my thoughts on certain subjects and look up what the Church teaches on it. So I thank those who challenge my Faith.

I thank you, Kathryn Ann for your loving words. I will keep you in my prayers and keep it up on your Journey! God bless.!!

 

[thewanderer]

Thank you for your opinion. I give everyone the same sign of peace at Mass because I see them in a different light. I shake hands with their souls, so to speak. Not with their physical beings. I see the sign of peace as something more than just a courtesy handshake. It’s about offering Christ’s peace to everyone as equals.

It is wrong to assume you know what my mind is thinking. I do love my wife because of our union with Christ through our marriage, and for so many other reasons, but that doesn’t mean I don’t see my neighbor as my equal, which he/she is. This is what I focus on when giving my sign of peace to people, and I know this is what Christ wants of me as an equal to everyone around me.

God bless!

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I meant you in a general way, I did not mean to saay anything about you specifically. I find it hard to believe that many people would really be able to give the sign of peace exactly same. Perhaps you really are capable of that. At any rate I do not see a slight difference as being problematic, I see it as a recognition of the reality which you live and which God has desired you to live. Giving ones spouse/family/friend a slightly different sign of peace does not mean that you offer less peace to others, it merely means that you offer the same peace in a more personal way to those who you know personally. You are right to say that the focus is to offer the peace of Christ to al lwho have come in unity, but I see no way in which that precludes slight differences. Where exactly to draw the line? I don’t know, and quite frankly, it is not my place to say, but it is unrealistic to expect everyone to shake everyones hand in exactly the same fashion, like a robot repeating itself, regardless of the personal relationship with those people.

 

[pnewton]

Cafeteria Catholics, those that don’t follow the rubrics of the Mass/Church while at Holy Mass. Those who choose to wear improper attire. Short shorts/Eucharistic Minister? REALLY!? I see it ALL the time. Being refused communion on the tongue because some lady thinks it’s faux pas, although IT IS the 1st choice of the Vatican/Magesterium on receiving communion.

I think your definition of what a Cafeteria Catholic is much different than most I have heard. Most use the term for those that reject or fudge on some important doctrine of the Church, not externals, some of which aren’t even disciplines of the Church. I think the best advice is such things are bothersome was given in this post.

Focus on the priest (who is in the place of Christ) during Mass, not on your neighbor.

 

[triumphguy]

I’m not projecting anything. I don’t care what they’re motivations are; that’s irrelevant. I’m saying it is irreverent and disrespectful to Christ to focus on your spouse at His expense.

I’m not easily distracted at Mass. During the Liturgy of the Word, my eyes and ears are on the celebrant, lector, and the cantor. During the Liturgy of the Eucharist, my eyes and ears are on the celebrant at the altar. I’m not bothering with this thread because of me–I’m here because of Christ.

Like I said, I don’t know why people do the things they do, and I don’t care. What I’m saying is to be reverent. If you were on Calvary watching Christ die on the cross, would you nuzzle your spouse? Don’t do it at Mass!

Absolutely! I would hold on to her for dear life, and she would cling to me as our Saviour and Lord died. And we would weep as one.

If you’ve ever stood at an open coffin where a loved one (especially a young person) lay you will see everyone instinctively reach out for someone. Husbands and wives not only hold hands but press themselves against each other, arms go round the kids, brothers hold hands.

(Taking “nuzzle” to mean someone someone’s rather judgmental opinion of a man putting his arm round his wife, and maybe whispering to her “Believe, he told us He would rise again”)

 

[lifeandhope]

—Quote (Originally by bearer)—
If you were on Calvary watching Christ die on the cross, would you nuzzle your spouse? Don’t do it at Mass!

Nuzzle isn’t the appropriate word, but YES! I would cling to my spouse. We are one-flesh, an inseparable unit. If I had the honor and horror of watching my Savior die, I most certainly would cling to my husband as we both had our hearts rent into pieces.

I am baffled that affection between spouses is automatically assumed to have a sexual overtone. I am a new Catholic, and Mass is such a profound experience for my husband and I after lifetimes of the Protestant/Evangelical world, and in putting my arm through his as we share his Missal or my Magnificat, or holding hands or having an arm around the shoulder, only serves to enhance our worship of our God as we unite our hearts together. At the sign of peace, I chastly kiss my husband; then take each of my young daughters’ heads between my hands, look into their eyes and say “Peace be with you,” and kiss them on the forehead; and then turn to others and offer handshakes and a smile. As a new Catholic, do you know how I learned this “protocol” for our parish? By watching all of the rest of the congregation the first few times we attended Mass. We saw that this was how families and friends proffered the sign of peace, and for people with whom you are not familiar, the physical connection was more neutral (handshake) but the spirit of the sign of peace is no less intense.

The apologist quoted on this thread does not use any authorative support for her ideas, and with all due respect, without proper support I am going to fall back on the atmosphere of the parish with which I worship. If I visited another parish, I would be likely to pay attention to their norms, so as not to bring attention to myself. (Which is how I am anyhow–I tend to dress & act modestly in part because I don’t like attention drawn upon myself).

I assure you, offering a more hands-on blessing of peace to my husband and my children does not dimish the sense of worship I experience during each Mass. Each time I go, Mass is the most profound experience and my heart is full of awe and worship.

 

[lizaanne]

To answer the OP -
Yes - and No

My husband will often put his arm around me before Mass or during the homily. He will sometimes lightly kiss my shoulder, or put his hands on my waist in the communion line (no rubbing as stated in an earlier post - sheesh). Sometimes, after receiving Holy Communion, I will put my head on his shoulder while we are both kneeling in prayer. Receiving Jesus Christ in the Eucharist with my husband by my side is one of the most incredible and intimate things we do together (trust me - after 11 years in an invalid “marriage” - I know what it means to live without sacramental grace).

Does any of this mean we are not paying attention? Hardly. Is it distracting to others? It shouldn’t be - not if they are paying attention to the Mass and not those around them. It’s not as if we are making out - we are married adults for goodness sake.

That being said - I am sure that PDA can get out of hand if a couple is not mindful of the place and time. But isn’t that the case ANYWHERE in public?



I’m pretty amazed that this thing has gone on for 12 pages already!!! Oh wait, this is CAF, maybe not so amazed…

~Liza

 

[jwinch2]

Absolutely! I would hold on to her for dear life, and she would cling to me as our Saviour and Lord died. And we would weep as one.

Exactly, particularly when you consider the immediate aftermath of Christ’s crucifixion where the apostles were distraught, on the run, and unsure of what was to come.

Even in the here and now there are times after receiving Holy Communion that I will look over after our post-communion prayers and see tears streaming down my wife’s face, or that she will look over and see that I am visibly upset. At that time, you can bet that I am going to reach out to my wife, who I am joined with by Christ Himself, and offer some comfort. I have been known to break down and cry during the singing of the Gloria at the Easter Vigil Mass. When that happens, my wife silently takes my hand or puts her arm around my waist. Its a powerful state of coming together as one flesh to approach our God and Savior.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Hi. Atheist here. I can confidently say that if I witnessed someone die in any manner for any reason that I would be sobbing in my fiance’s arms and he would hold me tight while kissing my head. This is even more true if I were watching someone die a slow, painful death for my sake.

 

[jwinch2]

I am thankful for people who do not know what the church teaches and give their opinions on things.

Enough is enough.

This is the third time now that you have thrown out labels for someone based on posts that you disagree with. First, with the “Cafeteria Catholic” comment; second with the “Protestant” comment; and now, by claiming that people “do not know what the Church teaches”.

If you have documentation of someone who has legitimate teaching authority in the Church providing guidance for the interpretation of the GIRM to mean that we should not put our arms around our spouse during the readings or the homily; or, that we should not kiss them during the sign of peace, then please present it.

 

[triumphguy]

Hi. Atheist here. I can confidently say that if I witnessed someone die in any manner for any reason that I would be sobbing in my fiance’s arms and he would hold me tight while kissing my head. This is even more true if I were watching someone die a slow, painful death for my sake.

Well said!

 

[thewanderer]

Hi. Atheist here. I can confidently say that if I witnessed someone die in any manner for any reason that I would be sobbing in my fiance’s arms and he would hold me tight while kissing my head. This is even more true if I were watching someone die a slow, painful death for my sake.

Yup, I think that about sums up the reasons some people have no problem with this kind of behaviour.

 

[1cor1313]

In my opinion, you’re at Mass to worship and glorify God. All your attention should be on that, not on the person beside you.

 

[PatriceA]

In my opinion, you’re at Mass to worship and glorify God. All your attention should be on that, not on the person beside you.

Well given that train of thought, then it shouldn’t matter to the average parishoner how married couples are behaving with each other during mass either, right? If we agree that you’re at mass to worship and glorify God, why would you (or anyone) be concerned about the person beside them, or in front of them, or even behind them.

 

[lizaanne]

Well given that train of thought, then it shouldn’t matter to the average parishoner how married couples are behaving with each other during mass either, right? If we agree that you’re at mass to worship and glorify God, why would you (or anyone) be concerned about the person beside them, or in front of them, or even behind them.

 

[1cor1313]

Well given that train of thought, then it shouldn’t matter to the average parishoner how married couples are behaving with each other during mass either, right? If we agree that you’re at mass to worship and glorify God, why would you (or anyone) be concerned about the person beside them, or in front of them, or even behind them.

The other side of that coin is that as a Catholic, I’m concerned for the souls of all other believers and only naturally want the best for them. So yes, I am concerned for them.

And as someone else said, it can be distracting if you’re trying to see the priest and the couple directly in front of you are kissing or whispering in your line of view.

 

[pnewton]

The other side of that coin is that as a Catholic, I’m concerned for the souls of all other believers and only naturally want the best for them. So yes, I am concerned for them.

And as someone else said, it can be distracting if you’re trying to see the priest and the couple directly in front of you are kissing or whispering in your line of view.

Ah, so the perfect ideal you mentioned earlier isn’t so practical. I would say that if one is concerned about the state of the souls of others based on whether they have their arm around their spouse or they are focused enough (for them) on the Mass, then they have a very serious issue of judgementalism.