Armed citizens

[FightingFat]

Well I am at a loss really, you’ve just contradicted the USCCB interpretation of scripture (it’s the same one as on the Vatican Website BTW). You seem determined to form your own conclusions about what it means to be a Catholic. If you are determined to re-write Cathlic theology, how can I argue against you?

Hope you’re happy with your warped version of Catholicism!

 

[Sir_Knight]

Well, my interpretation is the orthodox Catholic one!

I certainly wouldn’t claim to be an expert (although I do have a degree in Catholic Theology) but it would seem basic scripture to me!!

Jesus, who was preparing His apostles to bring His message to the rest of the world, would have told them that they were wrong and not bothered to correct them? Now THAT doesn’t make sense. If I’m teaching something to someone who is going to then teach that matter to others, am I going to just drop somethng if they fail to understand it? No! Because if I did, then part of my message would go out incorrectly or would not go out at all. Why would He be considered to be the “Great Teacher” if Jesus allowed this to happen?

And it is inconsistent with the rest of scripture. These scripture passages were written many years after the fact and they say that Jesus ALWAYS explained everything to the Apostles and that explanation is always noted. If Jesus failed to do this in this instant, then the scriptures are wrong about Jesus always explaining things to them and if the bible contain this error, then they could contain other errors placing doubt on EVERYTHING that is recorded.

You could go that route and question every teaching that Jesus taught because the Apostles might have got that passage wrong or you could conclude that no futher explanation is offered because Jesus actually meant a literal sword. Which approach you take is entirely up to you but if you take the former, then you MUST conclude that the infallible Word of God has an error in it because Jesus DIDN’T explain everything to His apostles as noted and if it contains one error, it COULD contain other errors – any belief that you may have MIGHT be an error.

Also, two swords would have been “enough” for a group of a dozen men to protect themselves from a small band of robbers or a wild animal. In VT, it would not have been required for every teacher and every student to have a gun to deal with the problem. A few here and a few there would have been sufficient.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Well I am at a loss really, you’ve just contradicted the USCCB interpretation of scripture (it’s the same one as on the Vatican Website BTW). You seem determined to form your own conclusions about what it means to be a Catholic. If you are determined to re-write Cathlic theology, how can I argue against you?

Hope you’re happy with your warped version of Catholicism!

Bishops are not infallible. Only the Church and the Pope are free of error when teaching the faith and they tell me that I have a GRAVE duty to protect myself even to the point of killing my attacker and I would not be guilty of murder. If this duty is so GRAVE that I can even take someone’s life, does it make ‘sense’ (as you say) for the Church to restrict the means by which I use to defend myself? I highly doubt it because that wouldn’t make “sense”.

These scripture passages were written many years later AFTER Jesus opened their minds to His teachings. If this passage needed further explanation, don’t you think that it would have been offered? And given the fact that they were being guided by the Holy Spirit, would they have recorded that Jesus ALWAYS explained things to them when that was not the case here?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well I am at a loss really, you’ve just contradicted the USCCB interpretation of scripture (it’s the same one as on the Vatican Website BTW). You seem determined to form your own conclusions about what it means to be a Catholic. If you are determined to re-write Cathlic theology, how can I argue against you?

Hope you’re happy with your warped version of Catholicism!

Where did you say you got your degree in Catholic Theology?

 

[freesoulhope]

You have to imagine it – because despite the fact that millions of Americans have licenses to carry concealed handguns, and they use those handguns in self defense – ."

Are you implying that none of these people have ever murdered anyone injustifiably on purpose.

 

[freesoulhope]

Where did you say you got your degree in Catholic Theology?

Have you any evidence to prove him wrong?

 

[freesoulhope]

No, it’s not. Your interpretation is the one someone would expect from a British citizen though.

I think some americans who support guns rather then weapons that are less likley to cause death, just enjoy having Guns and relish the oppertunity of shooting somebody. Is this true?

 

[vern_humphrey]

I think some americans who support guns rather then weapons that are less likley to cause death, just enjoy having Guns and relish the oppertunity of shooting somebody. Is this true?

No, it’s just bigotry – kind of like saying Blacks are lazy, Jews penny-pinchers, or Irish are drunks.

 

[mary_bobo]

I think some americans who support guns rather then weapons that are less likley to cause death, just enjoy having Guns and relish the oppertunity of shooting somebody. Is this true?

Surely you jest! Many people collect guns because of their value or their uniqueness and never fire a single shot. Personally, I like the challenge of going to the range each week and see if I can improve (sport shooting). I hope never to have to harm another human being for any reason, but I also want to be able to protect myself in the case I am in a situation where I would be threatened with imminent bodily harm.

I don’t want to chide our friends across the pond, but you folks sure have some strange ideas about firearms and the Americans who have them.

 

[mary_bobo]

Are you implying that none of these people have ever murdered anyone injustifiably on purpose.

He is not implying he is telling you what he knows to be true.

 

[freesoulhope]

He is not implying he is telling you what he knows to be true.

How does he know it to be true? More importantly, how do you know that he knows?

 

[freesoulhope]

I hope never to have to harm another human being for any reason, but I also want to be able to protect myself in the case I am in a situation where I would be threatened with imminent bodily harm…

Arming america was a mistake that cannot be reversed, therefore in that situation it is just to arm citerzens in that babalon country they call america. Sad thing is, only a small percentage are actually american! No guns ever helped them.

I don’t want to chide our friends across the pond, but you folks sure have some strange ideas about firearms and the Americans who have them.

Of course we gonna have funny ideas about america. They live on the graveyard of native americans, and talk about it being the land of the free; how much blood did that freedom cost?

 

[vern_humphrey]

How does he know it to be true? More importantly, how do you know that he knows?

The question is, how do you know?

You have made accusations about gun ownders with no evidence. That’s called bigotry.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Arming america was a mistake that cannot be reversed, therefore in that situation it is just to arm citerzens in that babalon country they call america. Sad thing is, only a small percentage are actually american! No guns ever helped them.

Of course we gonna have funny ideas about america. They live on the graveyard of native americans, and talk about it being the land of the free; how much blood did that freedom cost?

You’d save bandwith if you’d just say, “I hate America” and let it go at that.

 

[freesoulhope]

The question is, how do you know?.

I said “I think” that “some”………. Please read closer.

I think some americans who support guns rather then weapons that are less likley to cause death, just enjoy having Guns and relish the oppertunity of shooting somebody.

This is a ridicule and a criticism displaying my hate for the use of guns, not necessarly the people that use them. Its not bigotry.

Then Mary Bobo flew out of no-where to save your *** claming that she knew that “you know” that people do not abuse the power of walking around with a gun….

He is not implying he is telling you what he knows to be true.

…….as if to say that all licenced gun holders are saints; like they do not have metal breakdowns and don’t snap under pressure. I’m sure that there has been cases where American police officers, including the British, have abused the power of the gun in the past; so why don’t you think that citerzens on the streets are not likely to do the same?
I can imagine there being a lot of itchy trigger fingers and tension in America; people worried that some person with a chip on his sholder is going to pull out a gun blow away a some innocent people just because he lost his job unfairly.

Note that you also failed to really understand my question or that it was a question (in a very crude way of course)

……who support guns rather then weapons that are “less likley to cause death”.

What im really saying is; why don’t people opt for less deadly yet affective defence systems rather then a gun that is most definetly going to cause some serious damage if aimed at the wrong place?

I then asked you if what I am saying is true; this means that I am admitting that I may be wrong; since I do not live in America.

Is this true?

Your trying to shift the burden of proof on me, but it is you and Mary Bobo that claimed that you “Know”; so its up to you to show me the proof; not me.

You’d save bandwith if you’d just say, “I hate America” and let it go at that.

Did you learn that trick in congress? I never said I hate America.

I hate evil, especially an evil that try’s to parade as a sheep; i am sure you do to, don’t you?

Peace.

 

[mary_bobo]

How does he know it to be true? More importantly, how do you know that he knows?

We have both been on the forum long enough to have a pretty good idea of how the other thinks.

 

[vern_humphrey]

We have both been on the forum long enough to have a pretty good idea of how the other thinks.

Have you noticed how many Brits feel compelled to come here and belittle the United States and our culture?

They must be compensating for a national inferiority complex.

 

[freesoulhope]

We have both been on the forum long enough to have a pretty good idea of how the other thinks.

The whole point is, you cannot know what he is thinking, because if you trully knew what he was thinking, you would come to realise that he does not “know”; he would like to “think” that no abuses or negative damaging effects have come from the authority of an armed civilian, because he supports the civilian use of hand guns. So its no suprise to me that anybody who does support the use of a gun, will deny the negative side affects.

You might say the same for my position, but you cannot say that you “know”.

 

[freesoulhope]

Have you noticed how many Brits feel compelled to come here and belittle the United States and our culture?

They must be compensating for a national inferiority complex.

?

As far as im concerned, so called america failed as a nation compared to Britten . It was suppose to be a better world. Well… i would say im far more better of as a black man in London, then anywhere in america. Not that im a nationalist(i dont believe in nationalism) america might be the one of the most powerfull, if not the most powerful, nation on earth, but who is inferior in terms of morality?

Anyway, dont mind me. If you feel safer with a gun, thats your call, and it is relitive to your situation; i wouldn’t want to be in america with out a gun!

Im just kidding by the way

 

[mary_bobo]

The whole point is, you cannot know what he is thinking, because if you trully knew what he was thinking, you would come to realise that he does not “know”; he would like to “think” that no abuses or negative damaging effects have come from the authority of an armed civilian, because he supports the civilian use of hand guns. So its no suprise to me that anybody who does support the use of a gun, will deny the negative side affects.

You might say the same for my position, but you cannot say that you “know”.

I would never say that. I don’t know anything about you except that you are a discourteous poster with hate filled posts about my country. This is the first time I have ever encountered anything you have posted so how could I possibly know what you think. I am happy for you that you are somewhere you feel safe, but do not criticize things here that you really have no knowledge of.