Armenian Genocide Resolution

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
When is the right time?
Now is the right time.
It seems to me that this issue has been delayed enough. It is about time that we finally do the right thing and declare our horror at the Armenian Genocide that took place. And while we are at it, what about the Hagia Sophia Church in Turkey, which the government illegally has taken over and converted to a museum.
 
It doesn’t sound to me like the US is giving strong support to the UN.
The US helped set the UN up… in the closing days of WWII.

The US set up the rules for the game of international politics - which they’ve used for more than 60 years.

But, when the game’s not going the way they want, like a bully they wreck the game.
 
It seems to me that this issue has been delayed enough. It is about time that we finally do the right thing and declare our horror at the Armenian Genocide that took place. And while we are at it, what about the Hagia Sophia Church in Turkey, which the government illegally has taken over and converted to a museum.
I agree with the first part (your statement on Armenia). The second (Haigha Sophia), only the sentiment.

Turkey took part in an illegal invasion of Cyprus - setting up a ‘country’ there that only Turkey formally recognisies.
 
And while we are at it, what about the Hagia Sophia Church in Turkey, which the government illegally has taken over and converted to a museum.
What about it? It hasn’t been used as a church for over 500 years, and it was the Ottomans (not the modern day Turks) who changed it’s use, and it was an Orthodox church when last used, not Catholic.
 
“Unfit For Command” By Patrick J. Buchanan

"Observing Speaker Nancy Pelosi and a Democratic House imperil a U.S.-Turkish alliance of 60 years – by formally charging Turkey with genocide in a 1915 massacre of the Armenians – the question comes to mind: Does this generation have the maturity to lead America? About the horrors visited on Armenians in 1915, that year of Turkish triumph over the Royal Navy in the Dardanelles, which led to the ouster of First Lord Winston Churchill, and of victory over the British-French-ANZAC invasion force on Gallipoli, there is no doubt.

Between 1915 and 1923, as modern Turkey was being torn out of the womb of a dying Ottoman Empire, a million or more Armenians died in massacres and a forced exodus. It was one of the monstrous crimes and terrible tragedies of a 20th century that abounded in both. That Armenian-Americans wish to have their holocaust recognized is understandable. But that Democrats could not put off that request – for Congress to officially charge Turkey with genocide, 90 years ago – is not. For what was the necessity for the House to take this sensitive moment in U.S.-Turkish relations to rub our allies’ noses in century-old sins by equating their fathers with Hitler and Himmler? What was their motive?

Answer: House Democrats are pandering to an Armenian lobby that has long sought to have the United States formally declare that what Turks did to them is exactly what Nazis did to the Jews. The genocide resolution now goes to the floor, where Pelosi promises swift passage. One trusts Democrats will be rewarded, for the damage they have done to the national interest is great.

In Turkey, America has always been regarded more warmly than the other Western democracies. We never declared war on Turkey in 1917. We were not party to the secret Sykes-Picot deal that carved up the Ottoman Empire. Though Woodrow Wilson agreed in Paris to accept a U.S. trusteeship of Constantinople, which would have put us on a collision course with Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s nation, the Senate rejected it. When, after World War II, Stalin pressed down on Turkey, the Turks were among the first beneficiaries of Marshall Plan and Truman Doctrine aid. Turks reciprocated by sending their sons to fight beside Americans in Korea. They were then brought into NATO.

The Turks accepted U.S. intermediate-range ballistic missiles targeted on the Soviet Union, then accepted their removal as part of JFK’s secret deal with Nikita Khrushchev to end the Cuban missile crisis. No nation has been a better friend or more reliable ally. Since the first days of the Cold War, Turkey hosted U.S. bases. And few nations are more crucial than this land bridge between Islam and the West, between the Middle East and Europe. Turkey is a crossroads of the world.

But the relationship has deteriorated. The Turks opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq, arguing, rightly it turns out, that Saddam was no threat to the region. The Turks refused to allow us to use their territory for a northern front in the invasion of Iraq. Yet, today, Turkey is indispensable to Gen. Petraeus. Turkish drivers deliver munitions and supplies overland to Iraq. Turkish bases, like Incirlik, are used by the U.S. Air Force to support American troops in Iraq. Ankara’s reward: to have Congress vote to condemn Turkey’s founding fathers as genocidal murderers.

Understandably, Turks are coming to see the alliance as a one-way street and themselves as forgotten friends. For we have failed to convince the Kurds we shelter in northern Iraq to rein in their terrorist cousins, who are using Iraqi territory as a privileged sanctuary from which to attack the Turkish army. Two dozen Turkish soldiers have been murdered in two separate attacks in recent weeks by the PKK. When Pancho Villa raided Columbus, N.M., in 1916, and killed dozens of Americans, Wilson sent Gen. Pershing and an army of 12,000 into Mexico to run him down. Turks have the same right of hot pursuit, and they feel the same rage. For the Leninists of the PKK were responsible for a 15-year war in which some 37,000 Turks and Kurds died before 1999, when a truce was declared.

By reigniting a war of terror in Turkey and using bases in Iraq from which to attack, the PKK appears to be provoking a Turkish invasion of Iraq, which could deal a mortal blow to the U.S.-Turkish alliance and would be a disaster for U.S. policy in Iraq. Meanwhile, Iranian Kurds of a related terror group, PEJAK, have been conducting attacks inside Iran. Iran, like Turkey, has been responding with artillery fire into Iraq. The United States needs to sit down with our Kurdish friends and explain that in return for U.S. protection, they are to rein in the PKK and PEJAK before they drag us into a wider war. As for Ms. Pelosi & Co., they seem determined to prove the point that, no matter the failures of Bush & Co., the Democrats are unfit for command."

theamericancause.org/print/101607.htm
 
What about it? It hasn’t been used as a church for over 500 years, and it was the Ottomans (not the modern day Turks) who changed it’s use, and it was an Orthodox church when last used, not Catholic.
I would like to see it turned over to the Orthodox Church.
 
I wonder what the differnce between the modern-day Turks and the ‘Ottomons’ is?
The modern day Turks are more secular. However, I don’t see where that touches upon my point concerning the Hagia Sophia.
 
I wonder what the differnce between the modern-day Turks and the ‘Ottomons’ is?
The Ottoman Empire was the last of the Muslim Empires in the world, which explains why it exterminated the Armenians (They didn’t want any Christians, they wanted Muslims.)

Modern-Day Turkey is more “open-minded”, and secular.
 
The Ottoman Empire was the last of the Muslim Empires in the world, which explains why it exterminated the Armenians (They didn’t want any Christians, they wanted Muslims.)

Modern-Day Turkey is more “open-minded”, and secular.
That’s the countries, but what’s the difference between Ottoman Turks, and Turks?
 
That’s the countries, but what’s the difference between Ottoman Turks, and Turks?
According to wikipedia:The Ottoman Turks were the subdivision of the Ottoman Muslim Millet that dominated the ruling class of the Ottoman Empire. The ruling class is covered under Ottoman Dynasty. In 1500A.D. the Ottoman Turks take over the Holy Land (Jerusalem). Their control of the Holy Land was from 1500-1918A.D. and
The Ottoman Empire or Ottoman Caliphate (1299 to 1922) (Old Ottoman Turkish: دولت عالیه عثمانیه Devlet-i Âliye-yi Osmâniyye, Late Ottoman and Modern Turkish: Osmanlı Devleti or Osmanlı İmparatorluğu, also known as the Turkish Empire or Turkey by its contemporaries, see the other names of the Ottoman State), was a multi-ethnic and multi-religious Turkish-ruled state which, at the height of its power (16th – 17th centuries), spanned three continents, controlling much of Southeastern Europe, the Middle East and North Africa, stretching from the Strait of Gibraltar (and, in 1553, the Atlantic coast of Morocco beyond Gibraltar) in the west to the Caspian Sea and Persian Gulf in the east, from the edge of Austria, Slovakia and parts of Ukraine in the north to Sudan, Eritrea, Somalia and Yemen in the south.

The empire was at the centre of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for six centuries. At the height of its power, the Ottoman Empire contained 29 provinces, in addition to the tributary principalities of Moldavia, Transylvania, and Wallachia. With Istanbul as its capital, the Ottoman Empire was in many respects an Islamic successor to earlier Mediterranean empires — namely the Roman and Byzantine empires. As such, the Ottomans regarded themselves as the heirs to both Roman and Islamic traditions, and hence rulers of a “Universal Empire” through this “unification of cultures”.
and Turkey succeeded the Ottoman empire:
Founded in 1923, the Republic of Turkey arose from those portions of the defunct Ottoman Empire encompassing Anatolia, and the city of Istanbul. The Ottoman Empire interacted with both Eastern and Western cultures throughout its 623-year history. In the 16th and 17th centuries, it was among the world’s most powerful political entities, often locking horns with the powers of eastern Europe in its steady advance through the Balkans and the southern part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.[4] Following years of decline, the Ottoman Empire entered World War I through the Ottoman-German Alliance in 1914, and was ultimately defeated. After the war, the victorious Allied Powers sought the dismemberment of the Ottoman state through the Treaty of Sèvres.[7]

The occupation of Istanbul and İzmir by the Allies in the aftermath of World War I prompted the establishment of the Turkish national movement.[4] Under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Pasha, a military commander who had distinguished himself during the Battle of Gallipoli, the Turkish War of Independence was waged with the aim of revoking the terms of the Treaty of Sèvres.[3] On May 19, 1919, with the arrival of Mustafa Kemal at Samsun, the Turkish War of Independence started. In April 23, 1920 the Grand National Assembly of Turkey was founded in the midst of the war. By September 18, 1922, the occupying armies were repelled and the country saw the birth of the new Turkish state. On November 1, the newly founded parliament formally abolished the Sultanate, thus ending 623 years of Ottoman rule. The Treaty of Lausanne of 1923 led to the international recognition of the sovereignty of the newly formed “Republic of Turkey” as the successor state of the Ottoman Empire, and the republic was officially proclaimed on October 29, 1923, in the new capital Ankara.[4]
 
Aren’t they still Turks?
Yes, they are still Turks, but they are under a different system of government now. Turkey 80 years ago was very different from Turkey today.

Just because they are Turks doesn’t mean that they are the same ones who murdered Armeniens.

I bet you think Germans and Nazis are the same thing as well.
 
Yes, they are still Turks, but they are under a different system of government now. Turkey 80 years ago was very different from Turkey today.

Just because they are Turks doesn’t mean that they are the same ones who murdered Armeniens.

I bet you think Germans and Nazis are the same thing as well.
Of course they aren’t the same individuals, but there is a big difference. Germans and their government decry what the Nazis did to the Jews (and others). The Turkish government doesn’t officially recognize the Armenian Genocide.
 
Yes, they are still Turks, but they are under a different system of government now. Turkey 80 years ago was very different from Turkey today.

Just because they are Turks doesn’t mean that they are the same ones who murdered Armeniens.

I bet you think Germans and Nazis are the same thing as well.
Turks today deny the murder.
 
Turkey 80 years ago was very different from Turkey today.
Tell that to the Kurds.

That raises another reason why this is EXTREMELY pertainant right now, and why it should be raised now more than ever.

We are dealing with a country that flat out denies any involvement in a genocide and ethnic cleansing, and is currently positioned with weapons raised against another minority that is just beginning to see its movement for independence take hold and gain real tangible international support.

For those that don’t know, that’s precisely the recipe that kicked off the Armenian Genocide a century ago: the Ottoman Empire was crumbling and the Armenians made it clear that they intended to have their own homeland again. In short order the Armenians were almost entirely annihilated within the borders of what became Turkey, the Eastern portion of which was predominantly Armenian as was part of the traditional Armenian homeland.

When dealing with the same factors today that went into the Genocide, and facing the same nation which still denies the Genocide occured, we need to take very seriously the threat of another ethnic cleansing. All of us standing up and saying “We remember, we will NOT forget, and we will NOT let it happen again” sends a powerful message. Backing such a statement up with the threat of sanctions and/or military action would go even further.

We can’t coddle Turkey at this point just because they are our military ally, especially when they are seemingly poised to make the same type of action they made before. They got away with it then because nobody acted or said much about it, and this time we’re actively facilitating them in some ways.

It’s not about an Armenian lobby with great powers in Congress (yeah, we’re a real world-shaking ethnic group 😛 ). It’s about the threat of a repeat Genocide that is growing more and more real every day.

Remember, “just lacking after our own concerns and the lives of our people” is precisely what allows for ethnic cleansing to occur in the first place, both on the part of the purpotrators, and on the part of those who stand by and watch the build up and do nothing.

Peace and God bless!
 
Alright… I will agree with you that it should be brought to international attention.

But it could have been brought up at a more opportune time rather than when we are in a war and Turkey isn’t are greatest supplier. Our troops wellbeing is a more pertinent issue rather than something that happened 80 years ago.

Yes it was wrong what they did, and they should not be allowed to do it again, but I don’t think it would be a wise idea to let our soldiers run out of supplies for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top