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elizabeth4truth
Guest
Thank you Genesis315,
Can you tell my why they revere Mary so? Is it because she was the Mother of a prophet or because we believe she remained virgin, after His birth?
Elizabeth
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Can you tell my why they revere Mary so? Is it because she was the Mother of a prophet or because we believe she remained virgin, after His birth?
Elizabeth
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Genesis315
Guest
Well, if I’m not mistaken (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) they believe in the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s perpetual virginity–there is not even a Joseph in the Koran. Mary is basically the perfect Muslim woman. I’m not sure why she would get more attention than others. I would surmise that these ideas of Mary are just things Mohammed picked up from Christians during his travels and he just decided to encorporate them into his new religion.
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Franze
Guest
Very interesting message, stillsmallvoice, thank youLink: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html.
I will repeat my view that the belief in a carnal Paradise/Heaven/world-to-come is an essentially pagan notion.
Be well!
ssv
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sette
Guest
So sad they need are preyers God is love .
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elizabeth4truth
Guest
This is a perplexing belief. How can there be fewer women in paradise, then men, and still each man gets 72 virgins?
Sounds illogical and physically impossible, unless the 72 virgins are alien in origin or being exported from Hell?
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elizabeth4truth
Guest
Genesis315,
I’ve been contemplating your remark that Muslims do not hate Jesus Christ. Why then do they think to kill one of His followers gets them into paradise? Isn’t that a form of hate? Aren’t they in essense saying, Christians are evil and must be destroyed? How can they believe that and not hate Christ? How can they hate Christ but love His Mother? Perplexing!
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ElizabethJoy
Guest
These houris are not human souls - they are eternally virgin female beings created (by Allah?) to serve the bodily needs of male souls forever.
Their description in the Qu’ran sounds actually rather like that of a ghoul - transparent white skin so that you can see their veins. (Very light skin is highly regarded in the Muslim culture, so I suppose it’s only logical to follow that to its extreme in the afterlife?)
It’s very difficult for us to understand - Christians are taught that to live in Heaven is to willfully spend eternity in the joy of glorifying God. We don’t think of having marriage or sex in Heaven.
Even as a pagan, I never believed that in the afterlife, I would need more than the joyful joining with all that is, blinders and ego removed and leaving pure spirit - pure spirit has no need for any gratification - it is a state of being that is the ultimate gratification, in itself.
Reading the experiences of the Saints - after experiencing a glimpse of Heaven, they all seem reluctant to return to the joys of this world because they are such pale substitutes. St. Theresa said she would rather have just one of those brief glimpses of Heaven than an eternity of earthly delights. She wrote that she was nauseated to even attempt to compare the joy of Heaven with the joy on earth.
But imagine… when you’re living in abject poverty, nearly fruitless work and disease, though… what an attraction it is to find that you can have an afterlife of abundant and exotic foods that poor men can only dream of, rich silk clothing, piled-high pillows, ever-flowing water, and all the sensual pleasures that you have been denied on this earth.
Very attractive to those who are attached to this earth and its pleasures or those who do not have the opportunity to experience these pleasures in this life.
Elizabeth
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The_Eurasian
Guest
Elizabeth4TRUTHThis is a perplexing belief. How can there be fewer women in paradise, then men, and still each man gets 72 virgins?
Sounds illogical and physically impossible, unless the 72 virgins are alien in origin or being exported from Hell?
Your name indicates that YOU ARE FOR TRUTH. Munawar told us that when people die, THEIR BODIES REMAIN IN THE GRAVE. In the Islamic belief, Munawar said that the body of the the Blessed Virgin Mary is in her grave. Yet MARY IS CONSIDERED BY ISLAMICS AS VERY VERY HOLY!!! How much more people who were less holy than the Blessed Virgin Mary??? Where are their bodies??? Unless Munawar responds back, his past answers indicate that the bodies of people who died are in their graves.
Since you are for TRUTH and Munawar (who used to be here frequently) is avoiding this forum, THE FACT IS THAT IN THE GRAVE AND IN THE NATURAL PROCESS, IT IS TRUE THAT THE DEAD PERSON WILL END UP IN INTIMATE CONTACT WITH MANY MANY VIRGINS, NOT ONLY FEMALE VIRGINS BUT ALSO MALE VIRGINS. YES, JUST AS A MALE DEAD PERSON WILL COME IN INTIMATE CONTACT WITH BOTH MANY MALE AND FEMALE VIRGINS, A FEMALE DEAD PERSON WILL ALSO COME IN INTIMATE CONTACT WITH MANY MALE AND FEMALE VIRGINS. IN FACT THE VIRGINS ARE USUALLY ALL DRESSED IN WHITE. AND THIS IS BIOLOGICALLY THE TRUTH BECAUSE THESE VIRGINS ARE NOT ALIENS OR SPIRITUAL VIRGINS NOR IMPORTS FROM HELL BECAUSE THEY HAVE BODIES WITH BIOLOGICAL CELLS THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IN THE MICROSCOPE. IN FACT, IN FORENSICS, THE STAGE OF THESE VIRGINS IS WHAT THEY CHECK TO DETERMINE THE APPROXIMATE TIME OF DEATH OF A PERSON.
BUT MUNAWAR MIGHT ALSO HAVE OTHER SORTS OF VIRGINS AND IT WOULD BE INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE TO HEAR MUNAWAR’S RESPONSE.
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Genesis315
Guest
Well, Jesus is one of the most important prophets. They probably don’t like Christians becuase we believe He is God–equal to Allah. I think Christians (and Jews) are still considered children of the book and should therefore be subjugated instead of killed like other infidels (but unless they convert or are subjugated, Christians should be killed).Genesis315,
I’ve been contemplating your remark that Muslims do not hate Jesus Christ. Why then do they think to kill one of His followers gets them into paradise? Isn’t that a form of hate? Aren’t they in essense saying, Christians are evil and must be destroyed? How can they believe that and not hate Christ? How can they hate Christ but love His Mother? Perplexing!
So I guess they don’t hate Jesus per se, just those who have, in their eyes, perverted His message into blasphemy.
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Faith101
Guest
Hey Everyone,
I was reading through this thread and others on the forum, and I have found some of the comments quite disturbing. As a quick intro, i am a muslim female born and raised in the usa…and i hope to clear up any misconceptions you may have and answer any questions.
Elizabeth,
HOw are you? Muslims are not allowed to kill any innocent person, that is clearly stated in the Quran. During time of war, yes, we are given permission to fight those who fight us. In terms of the status of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) in Islam, The Quran says
"Behold! the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (3:45)
If a muslim says that they do not believe in Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) or any of his miracles mentioned in the Quran, that person is no longer a muslim. We, however, do not believe that he is god or the son of god. We believe in one God with no daughters or sons, father or mother. NO equal, and no one that is like Him.
I hope this helped
I was reading through this thread and others on the forum, and I have found some of the comments quite disturbing. As a quick intro, i am a muslim female born and raised in the usa…and i hope to clear up any misconceptions you may have and answer any questions.
Elizabeth,
HOw are you? Muslims are not allowed to kill any innocent person, that is clearly stated in the Quran. During time of war, yes, we are given permission to fight those who fight us. In terms of the status of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) in Islam, The Quran says
"Behold! the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (3:45)
If a muslim says that they do not believe in Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) or any of his miracles mentioned in the Quran, that person is no longer a muslim. We, however, do not believe that he is god or the son of god. We believe in one God with no daughters or sons, father or mother. NO equal, and no one that is like Him.
I hope this helped
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Faith101
Guest
Hey Sette,
Did you know that one of the 99 names of Allah is “the loving”?
As you may already know Muslims pray 5 times a day, and in each prayer at least 4 times we ask God to guide us to the straight path. May your Creator and mine guide us to the straight path that leads to His pleasure…ameen
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flameburns623
Guest
As I think the Muslim posters have made clear–while the discussion of 72 virgins, young boys, etcetera, sounds very carnal to Western eyes–the point is that these are seen as SYMBOLIC or FIGURATIVE ways of picturing the delights of the Islamic Paradise. The whole point of Munawar’s post that the human body is in the grave is that in Heaven the Redeemed will not have literal bodies with which to ‘enjoy’ the delights of these things. He at least seems to be advocating an interpretation which makes of the ‘72 virgins’ a word-picture of what Heaven will seem like. By the way–most of the denigrating comments about women in Islam come from specific post-Qur’anic writers, not from the Qur’an itself. We can find parallels for such comments in Christian patristic writings and should bear that in mind.
One should distinguish between several things in Islamic authority. First, there is the Qur’an itself which is believed by Muslims to be the words of God dictated literally to Muhammed and addressing all human beings directly. (This is why there is such a turmoil over the possible desecration of the Qur’an in the Middle East). Then there are the Hadith, various collections of the sayings of Muhammed as recorded by persons who knew him or knew someone close to him. These were put together in the secodn Islamic century and in citing the Hadith one should remember that all Hadith are NOT equal in authority. Various redactors of the Hadith assign different levels of reliability to the Hadith based upon whether the saying was attested to by one, two, three, or four or more persons. The level of reliability of the individual is also taken into consideration. There are at least six major collections of Hadith. In addition there are early commentaries on the Qur’an and the Hadith. Finally there are learned opinions and practical applications of the Qur’an by Islamic scholars.
Often, Christian critics of Islam–and Islamic revisionists, both Muslims and non-Muslims–cite these various sources indiscriminately. It is important to realize that the Qur’an has absolute authority over Islamic belief and practice, while the Hadith, the Commentaries, and the learned opinions have less authority on a sort of ‘sliding scale’ of importance. It is not much different than the way Christians view the Scriptures versus the Creeds, versus the opinions of the Patristic Fathers, versus later scholarly exegesis of Scripture. A lot of what gets fobbed-off as Islamic teaching turns out to be speculative applications on the Qur’an, often popularizers of Islam who are addressing a specific and not particularly sophisticated audience. By the way–there are various venues by which one can obtain a free Qur’an, although getting the Hadith is somewhat more difficult and expensive–they run to several volumes.
One should distinguish between several things in Islamic authority. First, there is the Qur’an itself which is believed by Muslims to be the words of God dictated literally to Muhammed and addressing all human beings directly. (This is why there is such a turmoil over the possible desecration of the Qur’an in the Middle East). Then there are the Hadith, various collections of the sayings of Muhammed as recorded by persons who knew him or knew someone close to him. These were put together in the secodn Islamic century and in citing the Hadith one should remember that all Hadith are NOT equal in authority. Various redactors of the Hadith assign different levels of reliability to the Hadith based upon whether the saying was attested to by one, two, three, or four or more persons. The level of reliability of the individual is also taken into consideration. There are at least six major collections of Hadith. In addition there are early commentaries on the Qur’an and the Hadith. Finally there are learned opinions and practical applications of the Qur’an by Islamic scholars.
Often, Christian critics of Islam–and Islamic revisionists, both Muslims and non-Muslims–cite these various sources indiscriminately. It is important to realize that the Qur’an has absolute authority over Islamic belief and practice, while the Hadith, the Commentaries, and the learned opinions have less authority on a sort of ‘sliding scale’ of importance. It is not much different than the way Christians view the Scriptures versus the Creeds, versus the opinions of the Patristic Fathers, versus later scholarly exegesis of Scripture. A lot of what gets fobbed-off as Islamic teaching turns out to be speculative applications on the Qur’an, often popularizers of Islam who are addressing a specific and not particularly sophisticated audience. By the way–there are various venues by which one can obtain a free Qur’an, although getting the Hadith is somewhat more difficult and expensive–they run to several volumes.
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ElizabethJoy
Guest
And do the leaders of the mosques and the fanatics not now teach that Islam is indeed at war?
This is being preached in mosques right here in our own towns and cities, large and small. Death to America!
Elizabeth
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elizabeth4truth
Guest
Dear Faith,Elizabeth,
HOw are you? Muslims are not allowed to kill any innocent person, that is clearly stated in the Quran. During time of war, yes, we are given permission to fight those who fight us. In terms of the status of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) in Islam, The Quran says
"Behold! the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (3:45) …I hope this helped
Thank you for your reply. It is appreciated.
Who is considered an “innocent person”? Does that include people that do not believe Islam to be the authoritative religion?
Are those who terrorize others, by suicide bombings, considered heros by the majority of Muslims or are they considered fallen away Muslims?
Peace be upon you,
Elizabeth
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elizabeth4truth
Guest
The Eurasian:
I’m sorry but I’m not certain I understand your point. Yes I do want to know truth. I also realize none of us walking the earth have the fullness of truth. We do the best we can with what we have and try to understand the Infinite, Almighty, who holds all the Truth.
I’ve never heard of this microscopic proving, if a person is or isn’t a virgin and don’t understand its significance.
Do you know if the Muslim people accept Elijah was a prophet who was taken into heaven body, mind and soul?
Are you pointing out the Christian belief that when our body dies (may it rest in peace), having been the dwelling place of the Spirit, that it remains on earth (dust to dust) but that the spirit returns to God, in a form we do not know? Jesus taught that when we die we are like the angels, not given or taken in marriage, is that your perspective?
Peace to you,
Elizabeth
Dear Eurasian,
I’m sorry but I’m not certain I understand your point. Yes I do want to know truth. I also realize none of us walking the earth have the fullness of truth. We do the best we can with what we have and try to understand the Infinite, Almighty, who holds all the Truth.
I’ve never heard of this microscopic proving, if a person is or isn’t a virgin and don’t understand its significance.
Do you know if the Muslim people accept Elijah was a prophet who was taken into heaven body, mind and soul?
Are you pointing out the Christian belief that when our body dies (may it rest in peace), having been the dwelling place of the Spirit, that it remains on earth (dust to dust) but that the spirit returns to God, in a form we do not know? Jesus taught that when we die we are like the angels, not given or taken in marriage, is that your perspective?
Peace to you,
Elizabeth
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elizabeth4truth
Guest
Dear Munawar,
Greetings to you and thank you for responding in this thread.
I think I understand the premise of wanting to be rewarded for ones good works but see a problem with the belief you have stated, because it means a man in heaven receives what he wants, at the expense of his 72 wives. Do you think the wives want to share one man? :nope: How are they to be equally rewarded and be in heaven, if only to serve another? Where is their respite?
Aren’t Muslim men happy with their wives, upon earth? Do they love them? Do they show love and reverence toward them or do they treat them like possessions and slaves? If so, how are they to obtain paradise, if they treat another human being so poorly? I do not understand
Do you beleive the creator made man and woman to be able to reason and make free will choices or is that right only for men and women are meant to be dictated to?
Peace to you,
Elizabeth
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The_Eurasian
Guest
Faith 101Hey Everyone,
I was reading through this thread and others on the forum, and I have found some of the comments quite disturbing. As a quick intro, i am a muslim female born and raised in the usa…and i hope to clear up any misconceptions you may have and answer any questions.
Elizabeth,
HOw are you? Muslims are not allowed to kill any innocent person, that is clearly stated in the Quran. During time of war, yes, we are given permission to fight those who fight us. In terms of the status of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) in Islam, The Quran says
"Behold! the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (3:45)
If a muslim says that they do not believe in Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) or any of his miracles mentioned in the Quran, that person is no longer a muslim. We, however, do not believe that he is god or the son of god. We believe in one God with no daughters or sons, father or mother. NO equal, and no one that is like Him.
I hope this helped
Thanks for visiting this site. I hope you will not be like Munawar who stopped posting in this site.
We are told that Mahomet’s message is that Christians distorted the message of Christ. What are these distortions that Mahomet and Muslims want to correct???
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Faith101
Guest
Hey Elizabeth
I’m glad to be here
An innocent person is just that, someone not guilty of any crime. In Islam, we must repect people of all religions, especially the Christians and the Jews who are given the name “people of the book.” We are to treat them kindly and speak to them in ways better than they speak to us. THis was the way of prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him).Suicide bombing is an interesting issue. Some Muslims do consider these people heroes. Might seem odd to us living thousands of miles away, but when someone faces injustice daily…they fight back in whatever way they can, even with their lives. This is not a justification for kiling oneself, but its a way that we can see it from their side.
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Faith101
Guest
The Eurasian said:
Hello Eurasian
Glad to be here. Munawar is actually a very active member on the forum at whyislam.org, so perhaps he doesnt have time.
Islam teaches that there is only one God. THe concept of tawheed (the oneness of God) is very very strict in Islam and allows no room for additions/interpretations by individuals. God is ONE, unique, no one is like Him. He neither gets tired nor hungry, He is the Creator, the Maker, the Sustainer, the All powerful. He is ONE, complete, with no separate parts.
Muslims believe that Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) taught his followers that only God was worthy of worship. We dont believe that he ever said that he was God, or son of God or in any way equal to God. He mentioned that everything he has has been given to him, and he speaks not of what he wants but of the one who has sent him He was a messenger, in a line of messengers, and among the best and most blessed. We believe he will testify to this when he comes back to earth. So that, in a long winded response, is what i believe is the major distortion that Christians have of what Jesus (peace be upon him) taught.
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Faith101
Guest
Hey ElizabethJoy
I personally havent been to any mosques in america that teach death to america…but yes, i do know of some oversees. We can go in and discuss the every bad thing that any muslim does, and get nowhere. I am here to clear misconceptions about my beliefs, not to defend every muslim out there. If you have any questions about Islam’s view on war and such, we can discuss that.
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