Article on people changing religions in the United States

[Thomas63116]

I thought this NY Times article about the number of Americans who leave the faith they were raised in was very interesting:

nytimes.com/2008/02/25/us/25cnd-religion.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1203966859-gfSrh+KcA+OagddCxV1m6Q

Among the items I found most interesting:

*If changes among various Protestant denominations are included, 44% of Americans have left the faith they were raised in to join another church or no church at all.

*The percentage of Americans professing no religious affiliation is rising, and now constitutes the 4th largest “religious group” in the country. Many of these individuals do not describe themselves as atheists or agnostics, but simply do not identify with any church or denomination.

*The percentage of Protestants is diminishing, from 2/3 of the population in the 1970’s to 51% today.

*The percentage of Catholics in the United States has remained fairly constant, but this is mostly due to a large number of Catholic immigrants in the United States.

*The Catholic Church has experienced the steepest decline as a result of the shifts among denominations. Roughly 1/3 of people who were raised Catholic no longer identify as such, and approximately 10% of the US adult population consists of former Catholics.

I’m interested in people’s comments and reactions.

 

[manualman]

Not that shocking. People have an innate desire to know the Truth. They want to know that what they believe in has a solid basis in reality, reason, fact and history. For 30 years, most of the Catholic Church in this country replaced such instruction with “God loves you, Kumbaya.” Those doing the chanting and drum -beating are now bewildered that their students in droves jumped ship for evangelical congregations where the preacher holds up the Bible and tells them with a steady, sure voice that it is the Truth and they can trust it (and nothing else).

When they’ve never learned WHY we believe that BOTH scripture AND Tradition are crucial, never learned to be nourished by the sacraments, never studied the ways in which God has manifested Himself to the world in His Church, its no wonder that people can fall for a good, sure sounding preacher.

 

[Nohome]

I’m interested in people’s comments and reactions.

I think it would be interesting to try and reconcile this report with the numbers of American Catholics that the Church reports. I’ve always felt the Church reports an inflated number of members. Those who quit without a formal act of leaving continue to be counted as Catholics.

I’m also interested in what this means as compared to other countries. Is this just an American phenomina?

Nohome

 

[deb1]

Most of those who remain in the Church(this is my guess) will be the more Othodox and us converts. This exodus might serve to make the Catholic Church much stronger then it was.

 

[Rolltide]

Time discusses the same study with different information:

news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080225/us_time/americasunfaithfulfaithful

Among the additional findings that are important to note:

“But Catholicism has made up for the losses by adding converts (2.6% of the population) and, more significantly, enjoying an influx of new immigrants, mostly Hispanic.”

So 2.6% of the US population is a convert to Catholicism. That’s around 7.8 million people. It’s important to note that generally, converts take their faith more seriously than cradle Catholics, since they’ve had to make a serious discernment of their choice. Another thing that the article doesn’t say, but is rather important, is that Catholics are growing surprisingly rapidly in the South, where the population has doubled in the last ten years. Some of that is due to Hispanic immigration, some is from people moving from other areas of the country, and some is from conversion. Needless to say, the distribution of Catholics is also changing.

The group with a real problem is the Jehovah’s Witnesses:

“An even more extreme example of what might be called “masked churn” is the relatively tiny Jehovah’s Witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds. That means that two-thirds of the people who told Pew they were raised Jehovah’s Witnesses no longer are - yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts. Notes Lugo, “No wonder they have to keep on knocking on doors.””

 

[brockmac]

I am always leary of the argument that a smaller Church will be a stronger Church. Christ spoke of the wheat and the chaff growing up together and only being separated at the harvest. If a lukewarm person still identifies himself/herself as Catholic and at least occaisionally attends Mass, there is a better hope that this person may be drawn deeper into the grace of Christ and His sacraments then if they become “unaffiiated” or go to a protestant congregation.

The Church needs to teach the Truth unapologetically, but do so in a way that draws people into the love, grace, and mercy that our Lord offers, rather than in a way that drives away the “lukewarm” people to leave only the diehards. I know this because I was once one of the “lukewarm” and was eventually drawn into a deeper understanding and love of the Church and her Lord through a loving pastor who listened to me, taught me, and encouraged me.

I pray not for a “smaller, stronger” Church, but for a much larger and stronger Church, one that really and truely converts the culture.

 

[Thomas63116]

I think it would be interesting to try and reconcile this report with the numbers of American Catholics that the Church reports.
Nohome

The Time Magazine article linked above reports that Catholics make up 23.9% of the US Population. Applied to a population of +/- 300,000,000 in the US, this would mean we have about 71.7 million Catholics. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops usccb.org/comm/statisti.shtml claims 67,515,016 Catholics or 22% of the population. This would indicate a US population of just over 306,886,000.

I believe the USCCB figure comes from people who are registered in their parish. So it seems that there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 million people who the Catholic bishops are not counting but who self-identify as Catholic. I’m probably one of them. I haven’t formally registered in my new parish since moving there three years ago because I rarely attend mass there, and more often attend at a local college or other nearby parishes which offer more convenient mass times.

I know a number of other catholics in their 20’s and early 30’s who attend mass at least some of the time but are not registered in their parish or did not register until it was time to get married or have children baptized.

 

[Rolltide]

It also means that with 7.8 million converts out of a Catholic population of around 70 million, that the American Catholic Church is made up of about 10% converts.

 

[Thomas63116]

“But Catholicism has made up for the losses by adding converts (2.6% of the population) and, more significantly, enjoying an influx of new immigrants, mostly Hispanic.”

So 2.6% of the US population is a convert to Catholicism. That’s around 7.8 million people. It’s important to note that generally, converts take their faith more seriously than cradle Catholics, since they’ve had to make a serious discernment of their choice. Another thing that the article doesn’t say, but is rather important, is that Catholics are growing surprisingly rapidly in the South.

The NYT article says that even with conversions from other faiths, Catholics have a net loss of 7.5%. If you take the figure that 10% of the US population has left the Catholic Church and subtract the 2.6% conversion figure cited above, you get (roughly) the 7.5% net loss. Clearly conversions are important, but not as important as the immigrant population in keeping Catholics at a steady percentage of the overall US population.

I think the question of who the converts are is also very interesting. I have run across a number of converts here on the board who are very hard-core Catholics. The converts I know in my own life are mostly people who married cradle Catholics and converted at some time down the line (usually around the time kids were being baptized or enrolled in Catholic school). They tend to be more similar to their cradle Catholic spouses in overall outlook.

I agree that the increasing Catholic population in the South (presumably part from migration and part from conversion) will have an interesting impact on the church in the coming decades.

 

[Rolltide]

I agree that the increasing Catholic population in the South (presumably part from migration and part from conversion) will have an interesting impact on the church in the coming decades.

What’s also interesting about the Catholics in the South is that while some are migrants and some are converts, there are also a lot of snowbirds and people from the North just flat out moving to the South due to job opportunities and better weather. The Diocese of Birmingham, AL, for example, has doubled in just the last decade. Further, that’s not just the number of Catholics, but the PERCENTAGE of Catholics in the area encompassed by the diocese that doubled.

 

[Light_Seeker]

These reports remind me of a conversation I had with a Hispanic coworker last week. Told me he was Catholic, but only goes to Mass at Easter & Christmas. I asked if he was baptized and had his First Communion & Confirmation in his native country. Tells me, “Oh no, I haven’t had any of those”. When I told him he isn’t really Catholic without those Sacraments, his reply was “Well my family hasn’t either, but they’re Catholic too”. D’oh.

Make me wonder how many Hispanics may identify with Catholicism, but haven’t received the Sacraments. Or, as in this case, very little, if any, cathecism.

Our parish is the largest in the Houston Diocese, and has, as always, a very large RCIA enrollment, if not the largest. Out of the many converts, only a very small percentage is Hispanic. Which I find rather interesting & unexplainable.

 

[Rolltide]

These reports remind me of a conversation I had with a Hispanic coworker last week. Told me he was Catholic, but only goes to Mass at Easter & Christmas. I asked if he was baptized and had his First Communion & Confirmation in his native country. Tells me, “Oh no, I haven’t had any of those”. When I told him he isn’t really Catholic without those Sacraments, his reply was “Well my family hasn’t either, but they’re Catholic too”. D’oh.

Make me wonder how many Hispanics may identify with Catholicism, but haven’t received the Sacraments. Or, as in this case, very little, if any, cathecism.

Our parish is the largest in the Houston Diocese, and has, as always, a very large RCIA enrollment, if not the largest. Out of the many converts, only a very small percentage is Hispanic. Which I find rather interesting & unexplainable.

Well, you answered you’re own question (kinda). There are very few Hispanic converts to Catholicism because Latin America is almost exclusively Catholic. The problem you describe is a terrible lack of catechesis, some dissatisfaction with the church, and lots of misunderstanding of the church, but these people are still marginally Catholic. The danger is that Protestants are catching on to this, and winning over large numbers of Catholics in places like Guatemala, parts of Mexico, and Brazil.

 

[rien]

Despite the prominent conversions like Han and Grodi - which are sort of an intellectual class of converts from Protestanism, the rank and file catholics are leaving in droves.

Remove the immigration and the church is shrinking significantly in the US.

Reling on immigrants to sustain the percentage in the population won’t work. Because presumably their chilfren will leave the church at the same rate as native born Catholics do.

On EWTN the head of Hondura Mission Int. said 95% of Mormon men remain Mormon till their death. That faith has a huge retention rate. As does Islam.

The Catholic church sounds like it has among the worst retention rates.

The numbers are worse for South and Cntral America. Honduras was 93% Catholic 39 years ago, is 73% so now. The Honduran Mission priest predicted Catholics will drop to less than 50% of the population in 20 years. Meaning Honduras will be a predominantly Protestant country then.

I think the smaller is better argument is trying to wish things away.I can’t tell you how many young Catholic men I’ve seen who were into drinking and partying and hangig out have a born again experience and embrace evangelical and totally turn their lives around.

For men especially the evangelical faith seems more transformative in a positive sense.

 

[MarieW]

I wonder of the Catholics that left, what is the percentage of the reverts.

 

[brockmac]

I think that along with the discussion on what is happening demographically, it might be constructive to consider some areas where the Church can improve.

Here is a list of things that I think will help with “retention” among those raised in Catholic households.

1. It starts in the family. A strong Catholic upbringing with an insistence on good solid cathecesis as well as a good example by the parents is essential. Children have to see that the faith is important to their parents or it will not be important to them.
2. Youth organizations. Every parish should work to have a vibrant active youth group that is alive with the joy of Christ, but does fun things like intramural sports, pizza parties, etc. as well as service projects that let the youth put their faith into practice. I haven’t been to one, but have heard that the Stuebenville confernces are phenominal and are highlighted by Eucharistic Adoration. It would also help if the priests make an occaisional appearance at youth activities and interact with the children. We cannot expect young men to recognize, much less answer a call to the priesthood if the only interaction they have with a priest is watching him celebrate the Mass on Sunday.
3. CCE. Most Catholic families either cannot or choose not to pay for Catholic Schools. For the children of these families, it is essential that the parish have a solid CCE program that focuses on the truths of the Catholic Church, and in the upper grades (high school) exposes the students to some of the major heresies of protestantism along with solid explanations of why these heresies are wrong.
4. Eucharistic Adoration. If young people learn to adore Christ in the Eucharist and recognize is real presence in the same, it will be nearly impossible for them to leave the Catholic Church.
5. PRAY. Especially, pray the Rosary for your own children and for all children. Heck, we might even try praying the Rosary with our children. Once again, if they learn to love the BVM, this will further ground them in the Catholic Church as any other “church” will force them to give up this devotion.

I hope and pray that the Lord will use us to reverse the trend of Catholics falling away from the Church.

 

[deb1]

then.

I think the smaller is better argument is trying to wish things away.I can’t tell you how many young Catholic men I’ve seen who were into drinking and partying and hangig out have a born again experience and embrace evangelical and totally turn their lives around.

For men especially the evangelical faith seems more transformative in a positive sense.

I think that this depends on where you are from. I live in the Southeast and I see many young Baptist men who are into partying etc. That is because almost everyone here is a Baptist. I certainly don’t think that it is because Baptist as a whole are less serious about their religion then Catholics.

 

[Island_Oak]

"…The Roman Catholic Church has lost more members than any faith tradition because of affiliation swapping, the survey found. While nearly one in three Americans were raised Catholic, fewer than one in four say they’re Catholic today. That means roughly 10 percent of all Americans are ex-Catholics.

The share of the population that identifies as Catholic, however, has remained fairly stable in recent decades thanks to an influx of immigrant Catholics, mostly from Latin America. Nearly half of all Catholics under 30 are Hispanic, the survey found."

Thoughts from anyone on our loss of American-raised Catholics who abandon the faith as adults in such large numbers?

 

[gam197]

I’ve read this many times over the years.

I’d also look at the source in the study, Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

Pew Charitable Trust give to the Sierra Club, National Public Radio(NPR) and Planned Parenthood.

discoverthenetworks.org/funderProfile.asp?fndid=5213

.

 

[cathgal]

On EWTN the head of Hondura Mission Int. said 95% of Mormon men remain Mormon till their death. That faith has a huge retention rate. As does Islam.

Can’t compare Mormonism and Islam with Catholicism.

Just knowing what they belief is enough to understand why they still have their retention rate. Another word, they’re not free to choose other faith unless they’d be an outcast or face death.

Not so with Catholicism. One remains one because one wants to. A lot of room to exercise one’s free will.

We’re loosing many Catholics due to bad catechizing.

But once a person found Truth, a convert/revert to Catholicism he’ll remains.

Can’t say the same thing about other faith.

The Catholic church sounds like it has among the worst retention rates.

Not surprising. The Church does give her members too much free will after all.

 

[kell0618]

The Pew Study was really no ‘news’ to me. From what I have seen, it was conducted in a very scientific manner and the data is as accurate as it can be. The subject is much more complex than numbers flowing in and out of the Catholic Church. I addressed the difficult topic in my latest blog entry: Tough Talk: NOT for the Faint of Heart. Your comments are appreciated and welcome.

Peace be with you.