As a Christian, do you consider the Blessed Virgin Mary as your Mother?

[rr1213]

Oh but it is supportive. You just don’t want to see it that way. Jesus spoke many times like this and back then He didn’t have to clarify anything because the Apostles understood Jesus (they didn’t understand Him completely and not all of the time of course). We too should understand Jesus the way that He wants to be understood.

In the scripture passage Jesus did not mention John’s name before saying “behold your mother.” That right there meant that we are all his disciples and we should all behold our Mother. Are you not a disciple of Jesus?

It’s really strange how you (most protestants) want to take everything so literally in the bible and yet when it comes to John 6 with the “Bread of Life Discourse” (in some Protestant bibles that section could be titled “I am the Bread of Life”) you say, “no Jesus didn’t mean it the way that Catholics mean it.”

Well you are wrong when it comes to John 6 because that really is the real substantial presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and we are to eat and drink His Body & Blood. But we also have to remember that the substantial is always there with the spiritual as Jesus said “the flesh is of no avail, it is the spirit that gives life.” We believe it as the flesh alone without the spirit is dead. Just like the body is dead without the soul or just like faith without works is dead. He didn’t mean that the bread was only a symbol but you’ll get the spirit anyway if you only eat a symbol. He would’ve stopped the disciples that walked away (John 6:66) and told them, “no wait, I only meant it to be a symbol, you really don’t have to eat my body.” Instead, He let them walk away.

Of course I know that we all have Jesus spiritually. So if we know that we all have Jesus spiritually then there’s no need for us to actually eat His Body and drink His Blood now is there? And yet Jesus tells us to eat & drink His Body & Blood. And if we do this, He will raise us on the last day. Something to think about.

I don’t know what else to say about Jesus giving Mary to John. John was referred to repeatedly as the “disciple whom Jesus loved”. Scripture tells us that there was a special nature to their relationship, something significantly different from Jesus’ relationship with his other disciples who, most certainly, he also loved. That being the case, there is nothing strange about Jesus giving Mary to John to take care of once he was gone. No need to stretch this episode into more than it is. It is not a giving of Mary to the Church so that every Christian can consider Mary to be their mother as well. I also am not so sure how to say this without sounding uncharitable, but I think that the Catholic emphasis on Marian devotion leads to interpretations like this that are, well, unjustified.

As for the Eucharist, I believe that we partake of the Real Presence with the body and blood of Christ. (And, yes, I don’t need to hear about how our Eucharistic celebration is “fake” because Protestants don’t have valid orders…I understand the Catholic position in that regard as well and consider it to be, also, unjustified).

 

[tequilamac]

The whole Marian thing is terribly interesting to me. I am a Catholic and as such, yes I regard the Church as my Holy Mother with the Virgin Mary as the Mother of the Church.

What is sad to me though is that so many Christians reject the Holy Mother. Although she has stayed by her Son’s side from the beginning.

But I have come to realize that it is not really Mary the Protestants reject. They are rejecting Christ as God.

Because they limit him. They say He is limited to what they actually interpret Him as meaning only. Nothing outside of their own interpretation is given credence, because after all if they can’t prove it it does not exist.

The fact that He Himself said “You believe because you have seen- more blessed are those who believe without seeing” is irrelevant to them. Because they limit that statement to that which occurred in his lifetime on earth and immediately, maybe 100 years at most afterwards. They tie His Hands so to speak. And that is sad.
Everything is a gift from God. If I say that to a Protestant they will readily agree. Probably because it is a more PC statement. The air they breath is a gift from God. Penicillin even though it is not in the Bible is readily agreed upon by most Protestants to be a gift from God. Most life saving medical care even though it is not in scripture such as pacemakers or crash carts are agreed upon by Protestants as gifts from God. But not the Holy Mother of God.
They reject the gift of the Mother of God. They reject her care, her maternal love, her wisdom, her gentleness. But more than that they reject her existence.

As if for some reason, He could not give us a mother as well. He had already told us He would not leave us orphans.

And he left the visible sign His Body and He left us His Mother.

But He probably did know down the line that someone would attempt to tie his hands and limit Him to His immediate word. They would say yes, we accept your pacemakers, and your crash carts and your penicillin. But we reject your Mother. To me it is completely irrational. Simply because they need her more than they need pacemakers, penicillin, and crash carts.

 

[Victorious]

But I have come to realize that it is not really Mary the Protestants reject. They are rejecting Christ as God.

Because they limit him. They say He is limited to what they actually interpret Him as meaning only. Nothing outside of their own interpretation is given credence, because after all if they can’t prove it it does not exist.

And the reality is that honoring Mary not only honors the God Who made her who she is, but is also a sure way of safeguarding your faith. Get it right about Mary, and you get it right about God; get it wrong about her, and you get it wrong about God. The Nestorian heresy is a prime example of this: the refusal to honor Mary as the Mother of God led swiftly and inevitably to errors about the Second Person of the Trinity. That so many Protestants have lapsed into Nestorianism is not surprising, and indeed was bound to happen sooner or later once their forebears cut themselves off from the life of the Church.

 

[rr1213]

The whole Marian thing is terribly interesting to me. I am a Catholic and as such, yes I regard the Church as my Holy Mother with the Virgin Mary as the Mother of the Church.

What is sad to me though is that so many Christians reject the Holy Mother. Although she has stayed by her Son’s side from the beginning.

But I have come to realize that it is not really Mary the Protestants reject. They are rejecting Christ as God.

Because they limit him. They say He is limited to what they actually interpret Him as meaning only. Nothing outside of their own interpretation is given credence, because after all if they can’t prove it it does not exist.

The fact that He Himself said “You believe because you have seen- more blessed are those who believe without seeing” is irrelevant to them. Because they limit that statement to that which occurred in his lifetime on earth and immediately, maybe 100 years at most afterwards. They tie His Hands so to speak. And that is sad.
Everything is a gift from God. If I say that to a Protestant they will readily agree. Probably because it is a more PC statement. The air they breath is a gift from God. Penicillin even though it is not in the Bible is readily agreed upon by most Protestants to be a gift from God. Most life saving medical care even though it is not in scripture such as pacemakers or crash carts are agreed upon by Protestants as gifts from God. But not the Holy Mother of God.
They reject the gift of the Mother of God. They reject her care, her maternal love, her wisdom, her gentleness. But more than that they reject her existence.

As if for some reason, He could not give us a mother as well. He had already told us He would not leave us orphans.

And he left the visible sign His Body and He left us His Mother.

But He probably did know down the line that someone would attempt to tie his hands and limit Him to His immediate word. They would say yes, we accept your pacemakers, and your crash carts and your penicillin. But we reject your Mother. To me it is completely irrational. Simply because they need her more than they need pacemakers, penicillin, and crash carts.

Nonsense. Devout Protestants do not reject Mary, we accept her as blessed and as a saint of God. What we don’t do is attribute to her the influence and status that Catholics do. As I’ve said on these forums many times, I readily acknowledge that Protestants usually do not love and honor Mary in an manner, yet this is mainly an over-reaction to the excessive Marian devotion that we see in the Catholic Church. Just as in many things in life, when you pull away in one direction you often swing too far in the opposite direction. Still, to say that devout Protestants are rejecting or limiting Jesus is nothing short of preposterous.

 

[tequilamac]

Nonsense. Devout Protestants do not reject Mary, we accept her as blessed and as a saint of God. What we don’t do is attribute to her the influence and status that Catholics do. As I’ve said on these forums many times, I readily acknowledge that Protestants usually do not love and honor Mary in an manner, yet this is mainly an over-reaction to the excessive Marian devotion that we see in the Catholic Church. Just as in many things in life, when you pull away in one direction you often swing too far in the opposite direction. Still, to say that devout Protestants are rejecting or limiting Jesus is nothing short of preposterous.

This is of course your opinion. Which you are most certainly entitled to. In the meantime, I have to go visit with my Mother at 9:00.

 

[rr1213]

This is of course your opinion. Which you are most certainly entitled to. In the meantime, I have to go visit with my Mother at 9:00.

Certainly. Is her son going to be there also? Speaking of which, I have to get ready for Church myself…

 

[tequilamac]

Certainly. Is her son going to be there also? Speaking of which, I have to get ready for Church myself…

Yes. He will be there. He never left.

 

[tequilamac]

Reading 1
Jer 33:14-16

The days are coming, says the LORD,
when I will fulfill the promise
I made to the house of Israel and Judah.
In those days, in that time,
I will raise up for David a just shoot;
he shall do what is right and just in the land.
In those days Judah shall be safe
and Jerusalem shall dwell secure;
this is what they shall call her:
“The LORD our justice.”

 

[Northwind]

It is not explicit in the passage that it is John

John was the one who happened to be standing there at the time

Not to quibble here but, isn’t this a contradiction? I’m currently studying the whole Mary/Jesus thing and it isn’t clear to me yet that we afford Mary all of the titles some ascribe to her.

As a former Protestant it is ludacris to think that Mary is not looked up to and that Jesus is some how lowered to a lesser than God status by Protestants. Jesus is God the 2nd person of the trinity and i know very few Protestants that would disagree with that. They are not Nestorians, anti mary or anti-Jesus. I don’t know how else to explain it. Mary is blessed and honored but, to suggest that some are heritics or have their salvation dependant on what they believe about Mary is simply not right…just my humble opinion…more to follow.

 

[LilyM]

rr1213:

Nonsense. Devout Protestants do not reject Mary, we accept her as blessed and as a saint of God. What we don’t do is attribute to her the influence and status that Catholics do. As I’ve said on these forums many times, I readily acknowledge that Protestants usually do not love and honor Mary in an manner, yet this is mainly an over-reaction to the excessive Marian devotion that we see in the Catholic Church. Just as in many things in life, when you pull away in one direction you often swing too far in the opposite direction. Still, to say that devout Protestants are rejecting or limiting Jesus is nothing short of preposterous.

And yet so many are happy to say that devout Catholics ARE lessening Jesus somehow by giving the greatest possible honour to the mother who bore him (as if any son worthy of the name would be upset at seeing his mother honoured!).

To me, as I’ve said before, it’s a matter of heeding his saying 'love one another AS = in the same manner that, to the same degree that] I have loved you."

Jesus loved Mary so much that he chose to honour her by being born of her (remember she was ‘full of grace’ and ‘highly favoured’ EVEN BEFORE she said yes to being his mother!!!).

Not only this, but he performed his first ever miracle ahead of time solely at her request. How could anything we do for Mary be ‘excessive’ when compared to what he did for her out of his great love for her? And how could we claim to be his followers and do any less than our utmost to honour her when he himself has commanded us to love her as he loved (and loves) her.

 

[tequilamac]

And the reality is that honoring Mary not only honors the God Who made her who she is, but is also a sure way of safeguarding your faith. Get it right about Mary, and you get it right about God; get it wrong about her, and you get it wrong about God. The Nestorian heresy is a prime example of this: the refusal to honor Mary as the Mother of God led swiftly and inevitably to errors about the Second Person of the Trinity. That so many Protestants have lapsed into Nestorianism is not surprising, and indeed was bound to happen sooner or later once their forebears cut themselves off from the life of the Church.

Absolutely correct. Because the only way to avoid the heresies is dependence on Mary. I think that is why the Lord said not everyone who cries Lord Lord will get into Heaven but only those who do the will of God. And it is definately the will of God that we not turn heretical. So Mary is a great gift to us but at the same time, it is sad so many Protestants reject her and as you say fall into heresy and Nestorianism.

The interesting thing is they will say that Jesus honored his mother and kept the commandment by putting her in John’s care only. That it would have been a sin and aviolation of the commandment to leave her alone, unprotected and uncared for and that is the only reason he said Son behold your mother to st. john. But at the same time, with the rapture theory, they are willing to believe they will be raptured at the end, and that Jesus raptured the good thief immediately, but he left his own mother rotting in her grave until he came again. That does not sound like the “honor thy mother” explanation they gave earlier. So I just end up saying wow these are irrational theories they have and throw up my hands.

 

[rr1213]

Because the only way to avoid the heresies is dependence on Mary.

Mary is not the one who saved you. Put your faith in Jesus, as Mary most certainly did.

 

[tequilamac]

Mary is not the one who saved you. Put your faith in Jesus, as Mary most certainly did.

I’m sorry but the politest way to put this is- we appreciate your opinion but you do not know what you are talking about. But hey , thanks and god bless.

 

[rr1213]

I’m sorry but the politest way to put this is- we appreciate your opinion but you do not know what you are talking about. But hey , thanks and god bless.

Well, that’s dismissive. You want to elaborate?

 

[Victorious]

Mary is not the one who saved you. Put your faith in Jesus, as Mary most certainly did.

Nobody said Mary saved us (thought it is worth noting that Jesus chose to come to us through her). What tequilamac means is that Mary safeguards key truths about Jesus. As explained above, you get it right about Jesus only when you get it right about His mother.

 

[LilyM]

What’s the saying - ‘Know Mary, Know Jesus - No Mary, No Jesus’

 

[rr1213]

What’s the saying - ‘Know Mary, Know Jesus - No Mary, No Jesus’

I haven’t hear that one. I have heard: “Know God, Know Peace–No God, No Peace.”

 

[E.E.N.S]

What’s the saying - ‘Know Mary, Know Jesus - No Mary, No Jesus’

I haven’t hear that one. I have heard: “Know God, Know Peace–No God, No Peace.”

I have heard both…and they are both right!

 

[AlegreFe]

I haven’t hear that one. I have heard: “Know God, Know Peace–No God, No Peace.”

This Catholic Christian has heard that one too! :yup:

**No Mary, No Jesus!
Know Mary, Know Jesus!

No God, No Peace!
Know God, Know Peace!**

 

[JustinApologist]

I do consider Mary as My Spiritual Mother because Jesus gave us his mother at the cross. “Woman, behold your son.” and to his beloved disciple. “Behold your mother.”

Note the Gospel writer kept did not mention the name of the disciple. In ancient tradition, the beloved disciple is John, the author of this Gospel. So John was very smart by keeping the disciple un-named. So this applies to us all since we are the disciple of Jesus Christ.

In Revelation 12:17, the Dragon was angry with the woman and went us to make war on the rest of her offspring (us, Christians), on those who keep the commandment of God and bear testimony to Jesus.

Mary is indeed our mother.