As an ex-Catholic do you really know what the Church teaches?

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BrewMax said:
The fact that the church holds tradition and magisterium in the same authority as Scripture so they claim.** I believe that in many cases, the church holds magisterium supreme to Scripture to be able to justify some of its teachings and doctrine**. The straw that broke the camel’s back you ask? A hugely painted picture of a church who cannot attest several of its teachings with the Scriptures.
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Based on who’s interpreation of Scripture?
 
BrewMax said:
The fact that the church holds tradition and magisterium in the same authority as Scripture so they claim. I believe that in many cases, the church holds magisterium supreme to Scripture to be able to justify some of its teachings and doctrine. The straw that broke the camel’s back you ask? A hugely painted picture of a church who cannot attest several of its teachings with the Scriptures.
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Please provide an example where the Church’s teachings are not scriptural.
 
BigFeet said:
Please provide an example where the Church’s teachings are not scriptural.
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i’m not sure he said there were teachings that “weren’t scriptural” (meaning they contradict scripture), i think he said that there are doctrines that cannot be found in scripture. and i reading you correctly Brew?

that would lead to the next comment from our catholic friends:

“we don’t hold to scripture alone, the church is allowed to add to the deposit of faith.”

so Brew, how would you respond to that?
 
bengal_fan said:
i’m not sure he said there were teachings that “weren’t scriptural” (meaning they contradict scripture), i think he said that there are doctrines that cannot be found in scripture. and i reading you correctly Brew?

that would lead to the next comment from our catholic friends:

“we don’t hold to scripture alone, the church is allowed to add to the deposit of faith.”

so Brew, how would you respond to that?
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You are changing the subject. These are Two totally different questions which would seem to me to be an indication the first cant be answered. By adding to the Deposit of faith do you mean with things like the Trinity?
 
estesbob said:
You are changing the subject. These are Two totally different questions which would seem to me to be an indication the first cant be answered. By adding to the Deposit of faith do you mean with things like the Trinity?
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have you read this whole thread? i am not changing the subject, i was bringing us back to the subject. you misunderstood some one’s comment and made your own comment based on the misunderstanding. i was clarifying and trying to get us to address the issue. Brew said that several of the church’s teachings are not found in scripture (my paraphrase). he did not say the teachings were not scriptural (there is a difference as most catholics would attest to). so the real question YOU should have asked (if you had understood him properly) was the question i asked, hence, i got us back on subject. you were the one who changed it. now, if you want a different question answered (i.e. what teachings of the church aren’t scriptural?) i can answer that, but then it opens up the debate of who has the final authority to interpret scripture which opens up a whole other debate. so what do you want to talk about?
 
bengal_fan said:
i can answer that, but then it opens up the debate of who has the final authority to interpret scripture which opens up a whole other debate. so what do you want to talk about?
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It seems unless you can answer this any debate about Catholic Doctrine not being sciptural is useless.
 
estesbob said:
It seems unless you can answer this any debate about Catholic Doctrine not being sciptural is useless.
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i can answer it and so can you, it’s just not the same answer (exactly, probably pretty close, but not the same).
 
exoflare said:
That was out of line. I apologize.
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Well, actually if you read Brew’s posts to me he told me my post was full of ridiculous propoganda. Apparently he can dish it out, but he can’t take it.
BrewMax said:
I expected this from you. Secondly, I am converting to he Anglican church, not the Episcopal church. Her church is very seriously not Episcopalian. Your accusations of washing the Eucharist down tthe sewer is totally unfounded and ridiculous. Aagain, more Catholic propaganda and untrue rumors.
in respone to:
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qui_est_ce said:
I am sorry you feel that way about me. I had hoped that the many posts defending the teachings of CC would excite you to a renewal in your faith journey. It has been posted in another thread (former Protestant, what was the last straw) that their last straw was the flushing of the wine. Maybe they were Episcopal. Please do not call well-researched posts as propganda and ridiculous rumors.

Brew, you yourself actively participated in this thread and saw the below post. Please be honest before you tell me I am spreading rumors and propoganda.

I hope you continue to come back to this forum. You were here for a reason. Perhaps you could start a thread and tell us of your experience.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…the+last+straw

well, as an Episcopalian, there were a LOT of straws!

The one that finally made me realize I needed to come into full communion with the Church was the widely varying understandings of “Real Presence” that are accepted within the doctrinal boundaries of Anglicanism.

The Episcopal Church and diocese I grew up in and attended until my Tiber swim was pretty conservative, doctrinally, and I never really had to personally deal with any of the serious heterodox problems that plague much of the rest of that denomination, which was a great blessing. However, one day, we (the Lay Eucharistic Ministers aka LEMs) were meeting in the Sacristy, when I noticed that the sink had been re-piped to have both sinks going to the septic system. Now, if you know something about Sacristies, they should have one sink or repository that goes into the ground, for sacramentals like Holy water to be disposed without putting them into a septic tank!

I was aghast that for an indeterminate amount of time, people had been pouring the consecrated blood of Christ into a septic tank! When I expressed this, all of the layfolk there were pretty much like “so?”. I think the deacon (a female former Lutheran) was the only one who was equally upset about it.
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BrewMax said:
But they are ridiculous and propaganda. You just admitted it yourself and probably didn’ realize it (Maybe they were Episcopal). Not very well researched in my book.
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bengal_fan said:
that was a little out of line. i asked him what his experience was and he told me. he shouldn’t be attacked for expressing his opinion. now, in another thread where he might say, “the catholic church teaches lies” (which i have not seen him say outright btw) a response like this could be in order (although personal attacks in a debate just show a lack of knowledge on the subject) but not in this thread.
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I agree. This thread did ask for the stories.

However, things just as nasty, if not those exact words, have been expressed by BrewMax. Not that it justifies anything, but I do know I sometimes find it is difficult to keep straight which thread a person said something in:shrug:

originally posted by BrewMax
 
I do music ministry at a protestant church which is made-up, at least 40% worth, of ex-catholics. It is amazing how much they don’t know about what the Church officially teaches, and yet there are a good number of them who insist that they do. Mostly, they disagree with Church teaching on the following matters (in descending order): birth control, abortion, divorce, same-sex marriage, the Real Presence, and purgatory. Oh, yes, I forgot - the papacy too. Half of them have never heard of the Immaculate Conception, and the other half believes that it means that Mary had a virgin birth.
But it doesn’t stop there with ex-catholics. I have family members who are practicing Catholics who believe the same thing about Mary, and insist on arguing with me that the Church gave up its teaching on the existence of purgatory! Go figure. I just shake my head.
 
JCChick said:
I cant believe I just read that! Its the same for me! I was born and raised Catholic and have three children in Catholic school–my parents decided last year to join a Baptist Church…I am so disheartened by it…especially when my mom tries to tell me everything that is WRONG with the church–like that we arent allowed to read our Bibles, etc! Aargh!
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These stories are so common, it’s as though ex-Catholics are brought in to these churches with the following words: “Welcome to our church! Now let us tell you all that is wrong with Catholicism.” It’s just odd how quickly they are brought up to speed, so to speak, on all the standard “why the Catholic Church is wrong” stuff.
 
peary said:
I do music ministry at a protestant church which is made-up, at least 40% worth, of ex-catholics. It is amazing how much they don’t know about what the Church officially teaches, and yet there are a good number of them who insist that they do. Mostly, they disagree with Church teaching on the following matters (in descending order): birth control, abortion, divorce, same-sex marriage, the Real Presence, and purgatory. Oh, yes, I forgot - the papacy too. Half of them have never heard of the Immaculate Conception, and the other half believes that it means that Mary had a virgin birth.
But it doesn’t stop there with ex-catholics. I have family members who are practicing Catholics who believe the same thing about Mary, and insist on arguing with me that the Church gave up its teaching on the existence of purgatory! Go figure. I just shake my head.
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That is so true. Catholics, or Ex-Catholics for the most part are either poorly catechized in the faith, or have a misunderstanding of it.
 
peary said:
And the reason you left, then?
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Old Testament got me started on my way to complete apostasy, after that realizing the sheer implasuibility of it all. It all became unteneable when I applied logic and an even approach to all sides.
 
Mirdath said:
Aw, thanks 🙂
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I am suprised you have not come back to the Church-after all lots of Priests dressed “goth” november 2.😃

At any rate i have added you to my morning prayer petitions so its just a matter of time before you are a remarkable Catholic.
 
lukewarm said:
Old Testament got me started on my way to complete apostasy, after that realizing the sheer implasuibility of it all. It all became unteneable when I applied logic and an even approach to all sides.
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Did it ever occur to you that we are New Testament Christians, not Old Testament Christians?
 
peary said:
Did it ever occur to you that we are New Testament Christians, not Old Testament Christians?
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The God of the Old Testament and the New Testament are the same, to seperate them is a heresy. You can’t get around the OT as a Christian, and I couldn’t accept human sacrifice, genocide, favoritism towards certain races, adultery condoned amongst those God “liked”, smashing babies against rocks etc… Some can block it out or rationalize it, I can’t, so my faith went away.
 
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