As an ex-Catholic do you really know what the Church teaches?

[guanophore]

So when Japheth sacrifices his daughter as a burnt offering before the God of Israel and he accepts the sacrifice how is that reconciled in your mind?

First of all, it was Jephthah (Judg 11:34), not one of the sons of Noah. Second, that was Jephthah’s ridiculuous oath, and his pride would not allow him to take it back. God had nothing to do with it! What made you think that God accepted this sacrifice? That is like saying that all the ridiculous things that men do in the name of God are God’s fault!

When the Kings of Israel behave in the most horrid ways and still maintain God’s favor how do you reconcile that?

They did not maintain God’s favor.

There is zero moral consistency in the Bible.

Certainly not, the way you are reading it!

Even in the New Testament Jesus path to salvation is impossible, it’s been mapped out here before so I won’t write it again. But if you go by Jesus own words in the NT salvation is completely impossible for man to attain.

I don’t understand why or how that is a problem?

 

[guanophore]

%between%

I think the website speaks for itself. You can’t fix stupid, apparently.

I think this is uncharitable. This young man obviously is not stupid. Although I don’t agree with his conclusion, he has reasoned his way to his position. He is ignorant (lacking knowledge) but sincere. he cannot even be blamed for his actions, since he clearly had poor catechesis. What he represents is a mailine evangelical soteriology and exegesis. Most evangelicals believe these conclusions (and some even more ridiculuous ones) because that is what they were taught. It just means that the fields are still ripe for harvest.

 

[guanophore]

Those who are in open heresy…. I like a saying I heard, one man’s heresy is another man’s doctrine. Seriously though, I do get a little confused on this, because my understanding is that there are many things that RCC can openly discuss and there is no final word on it as long as there is unity of faith on the essentials.

Most Protestants cannot be accused of heresy, because to be a heretic, one must understand and accept a doctrine, then willfully reject it. The young man on the website that left the church cannot be considered one, either, because he never understood what he left.

If you cant produce the list, then it is a tautology or mantra.

Certainly a mantra with at least some degree of truth.

I read John 17, however, I am not seeing how this supports your response. Of course Jesus wants unity (which is why I felt the need to leave the RCC), but I think you are incorrectly assuming that the RCC is what he is talking about.

There IS only ONE CHURCH. Jesus did not found “churches” but A church. It is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets.

Rather he chose… Wow. Hmm, why was he even upset with the unified church that Christ himself ordained and the holy spirit oversees?

There were many abuses going on, just as there are today in some areas. There were greedy, worldly, self centered clergy that engaged in shameful behaviors, just as there are today.

I’d really recommend you read the works of Luther from Luthor’s own hand and not a commentary. Might give you a slightly different perspective…or not.

Indeed yes! I was surprised to learn that Luther really did not “throw everything out”. He prayed his rosary daily, believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, Transubstantiation, continued daily Mass and many other things.

The “only God knows…” is particularly concerning. Didn’t the 30 (don’t hold me to the number…speaking off the cuff) sum odd anathemas at least give y’all a good idea where Luthor is right now. Since these anathemas and other writings are from the one true church, you should be very confident in stating that Luthor is burning in hell right now…if I understand my RCC theology? Why would you leave this as a question?

Because we are taught that the judgement of another’s soul is a matter for God, and not for us. Only He can read the heart in it’s depths. Presuming to be able to separate the wheat from the tares is arrogant. Yes, we can recognize them by their fruit, but Jesus taught that we should “leave them alone until the harvest”. At that time, the angels, who also can see better than we, will separate them. Besides, isnt’ it a much better use of one’s energy to attend to one’s own position in relation to the anathemas?

Not sure if you posted this information later, but could you provide the official RCC teaching on its teachings? Thanks!

Are you asking about the catechism, or the position of the church about it’s own teaching? I mean, are you looking for a source of study, or a doctrinal position?

Can you point me to where it says what you are saying about being in communion that is the official RCC teaching. I’d like to get a list of the requirements for what this is or even give me some denominations that would be considered in communion and why?

This is covered in the catechism. Starting with the presumption that there is only one church, and all validly baptized members are part of it, we can then move on to degrees of unity. There are 23 Rites in the Catholic Church, the Latin (Roman) being the largest and most common in the West. Catholics are most closely unified with the Orthodox, with whom we share the vast majority of essential doctrines. Beyond that, we find a plethora of Protestant sects with whom we are “imperfectly” unified. Most believe that Jesus is divine, and the other principles in the Apostles Creed. All are members of the One Body.

 

[guanophore]

Anyone that knows the slightest thing about this knows that they deny that Jesus was God, that he was crucified, and that he was resurrected. The CENTRAL theme to the Christian faith. Jesus was a prophet. That does not square with the plain reading of scripture. Other “faiths” like buddihsm is atheist in nature. I admit, the late pope’s comments were good for PR, but certainly not with the teaching of Jesus or the scriptures.

I recommend 'Romans on the function of the conscience for those who do not know the gospel.

Rom 2:13-16
14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

We ARE called to judge. Please look up the verse that I know you will go to and read the entire section slowly. In context (and reading the entire thing) you’ll note that we are not to judge on the stuff that we are guilty on. Basically, we need to have our house clean before we go telling others they are wrong.

Do any of us really ever get there? Also, judge in this context is to “discern” from the root word “crit” where we get the word “criteria”. We are to sort out what we see. It is not judgement in the sense of condemnation, which is strictly forbidden.

Also, haven’t you just made a judgment when you said that we are not to judge………

Yes, but not a condemnation.

Who should I rely on then?

The infallible magesterium, of course!

Then I read this…….I find this interesting, the RCC contains the FULL truth. What is the full truth, exactly?

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. 15(John bore witness to him, and cried, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known. " John 1:14-18

It is the fullest expression of Jesus, who embodied the fullness of grace and truth.

Where can I read the full truth documents so that I may be convinced of same. Why is it so hard to get to said full truth documents?

Please take into consideration that we are talking about 2000 years of authorship! The Catechism is an accessible distillation, but no human could ever master it all!

So in taking with your comments, God knows our hearts (we are wicked). There is no such thing as a noble heathen? All fall short of the glory of God. Very plain, straight forward, and simple. I know its not good PR to tell people that they are going to hell, but it is what the bible teaches. It really seems that the bible speaks against what your church teaches on this matter.

In addition to Romans, the Catechism also addresses this point.

Again, thank you all who replied. I apologize upfront if some of my comments sound uncharitable, they are NOT intended that way. I will respond to the other posters soon (studying for a test right now).

Actually, it is refreshing to see a thinking, passionately faithful person exploring differences.

God Bless

 

[Frank_J]

I’m and ex-Catholic who join the Orthodox Church 7 years ago.

My being Orthodox Christian was the best move for me; and I don’t happen to speak for others who have converted to Orthodoxy.

You asked the questions, do I understand your faith? My answer is yes. What you don’t understand is that I felt called to go to the Orthodoxy in the mid-1980’s. I don’t why I felt so drawn to it. GOD calls people and it is GOD who saves not men in robes. I would wait to go for sometime after as you will read on in this chat.

All I can say is that one day I a radio broadcast on my radio and I felt to want to listen to it. When I started to listen to the Orthodox radio broadcast I just had to listen in on it. It was the reason that I started to want to attend Eastern Orthodoxy Church. That radio broadcast was maybe around 1985. It wasn’t until 1992 when I first start to attend my first Divine Liturgy. I wasn’t until around Jan. 7, 2001 that I would convert to Orthodox Christian faith.

As you read on you will see other things that may have or may not haved helped in my conversion to Orthodoxy, but it didn’t hurt.

One of the first introductions to Orthodox belief was from my mother who was of Sicilian back ground. You’re asking why my mother would do that??? She learned to same way from her parents who would teach her the faith. They didn’t know where it came from but they would pass it on down the line of family to family with every generation leading to the first one.

Sicilian people were once part of an great Orthodox country at one time and when the Catholic invaded that part of Italy; they forced Byzantine Christians to adopt Latinize ways. Orthodox faith was lossed. Just look at history of that part of the world.

What didn’t die was the ways they would pratices the faith. Stories told from one generation to the next and the way we would make the sign of the cross with our first three fingers together. and the last two folded down. The first three stood for Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The last two stood for True God and True Man.

I did know at the time about the history of Italy as well as I do now. I was more into US history then European history.

I could say more but I don’t have that much time to do so. You wanted to know more about converts. Ask someone who has converted and they will tell you why maybe.

Got to go.

 

[Memaw]

I’m and ex-Catholic who join the Orthodox Church 7 years ago.

My being Orthodox Christian was the best move for me; and I don’t happen to speak for others who have converted to Orthodoxy.

You asked the questions, do I understand your faith? My answer is yes. What you don’t understand is that I felt called to go to the Orthodoxy in the mid-1980’s. I don’t why I felt so drawn to it. GOD calls people and it is GOD who saves not men in robes. I would wait to go for sometime after as you will read on in this chat.

All I can say is that one day I a radio broadcast on my radio and I felt to want to listen to it. When I started to listen to the Orthodox radio broadcast I just had to listen in on it. It was the reason that I started to want to attend Eastern Orthodoxy Church. That radio broadcast was maybe around 1985. It wasn’t until 1992 when I first start to attend my first Divine Liturgy. I wasn’t until around Jan. 7, 2001 that I would convert to Orthodox Christian faith.

As you read on you will see other things that may have or may not haved helped in my conversion to Orthodoxy, but it didn’t hurt.

One of the first introductions to Orthodox belief was from my mother who was of Sicilian back ground. You’re asking why my mother would do that??? She learned to same way from her parents who would teach her the faith. They didn’t know where it came from but they would pass it on down the line of family to family with every generation leading to the first one.

Sicilian people were once part of an great Orthodox country at one time and when the Catholic invaded that part of Italy; they forced Byzantine Christians to adopt Latinize ways. Orthodox faith was lossed. Just look at history of that part of the world.

What didn’t die was the ways they would pratices the faith. Stories told from one generation to the next and the way we would make the sign of the cross with our first three fingers together. and the last two folded down. The first three stood for Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The last two stood for True God and True Man.

I did know at the time about the history of Italy as well as I do now. I was more into US history then European history.

I could say more but I don’t have that much time to do so. You wanted to know more about converts. Ask someone who has converted and they will tell you why maybe.

Got to go.

Orthodox Patriarch Says Unity an Obligation
Sends Message to Vatican on Feast of St. Andrew

By Miriam Diez i Bosch

ISTANBUL, Turkey, DEC. 5, 2007 ( Zenit.org).- It is an obligation to reclaim the spiritual, sacramental and doctrinal unity that Europe enjoyed prior to the schism of the East and West, said the Orthodox patriarch of Constantinople.

Bartholomew I said this Friday in a letter addressed to a delegation sent by Benedict XVI to Istanbul for the regular exchange of visits between the two Churches for the feasts of St. Andrew, Nov. 30, and Sts. Peter and Paul, June 29.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, led the delegation.

Bartholomew I affirmed the presence of the delegation “both strengthens and seals the bonds of love and trust between our Churches, bonds which have been cultivated in recent decades, and which have been especially established by the visit” of Benedict XVI in November 2006.

The patriarch also emphasized “that the peaceful coexistence of Christians, in a spirit of unity and concord, must constitute the fundamental concern of us all.”

Battling secularism

Bartholomew I recognized that in an age in which there is a rise of “secularism and relativism, or even nihilism, especially in the Western world,” we must derive inspiration from the example of the Apostle Andrew, who knew how to “remain upstanding through the strength of Christ” in spite of “numerous difficulties.”

The example of St. Andrew offers an opportunity to “pray together more intently for the restoration of unity within the Christian world,” urged Bartholomew I, adding that “the fracture of this unity has been the cause of so much trouble in humanity, while its consequences have proved tragic.”

Bartholomew I emphasized that the Enlightenment philosophy in the West and the French Revolution meant a true “cultural revolution aimed at replacing the previous Christian tradition of the Western world with a new, non-Christian, concept of man and society.”

He said this “gave rise in many ways” to a “militant atheism and totalitarianism which, over the last two centuries, have unfortunately claimed the lives of millions of innocent victims.”

The patriarch continued: "Today, then, it is our obligation more than ever to reclaim the Christian roots of Europe and the spiritual, sacramental and doctrinal unity that it enjoyed prior to the schism of our two Churches.

 

[Frank_J]

Memaw

Talking to one another is great, but remember that the differences that remain. The way that Orthodox Christians and Catholics view faith and practices and world view will be hard to over come…

The Pope wants to rule over all of the Christianity and the Orthodox Church rejects that how do we get past this.

The Pope would have to give up some stuff if he wants one Church. Remember that Power is hard to give up. It is also said that it is a two way street and I sure that we would have to give up also, but what?? Is the Pope ready to make a move on this maybe there could be some progress in this area.

I know how you Catholics see your faith and practice it. I use to be Catholic and understand you. Just so that you will know what part I was a part of in the Catholic Church. I was a Traditionalist Catholic and we view the true Mass as the Latin Tridentine Mass. You’re more then likely a member of a Novus Ordo Catholic group. Novus Ordo means New Ordo of the Mass. Just in case you didn’t know what it stood for.

Being unable to say some of what I want to say but what Muslims because they are not PC with Catholic Answer so we will leave it at that. I been burn once and will not go there again.

What I will have to say is this about Rome Catholic Church will best be said by this statement and I mean the Vatican. If Europe becomes Muslim and Italy falls to Islam I would like to ask you or any other Catholic. How long do you think that it will be allowed to be in the center of all of those Muslim that would be now rules of that country??? Look at HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople that was converted into a Mosque. The same thing would happen to the Vatican if they have their way. Only time will tell if this will happen, but watch the numbers of immigrants entering Europe and there off spring and it will tell you the future of Italy and the rest of Europe.

What faces the future if Christianity in both Western and Eastern Europe is a very radical group of people. I read what is going on in Europe. I know I can count the many births of Muslim babies on those countries. Christians in Europe are not having as many babies as they are. Can any one add??? Europe is sliding into a very trouble times ahead.

If Christianity in both Western and Eastern to live in those countries it will have to stand together even if we are not one in faith but we will have to work together on what troubles that part of the world.

I also want to tell you if you want to know what life would look like in the countries of Europe if Islam ever took control. All you would have to do, is look at life’s of Christians in the hell hole of the Middle East. They are treated with disrespect by there Muslims in those countries.

Muslims view Christians as people of the book. To the Muslims the two of us are viewed as second class people are not given full rights that they would have in their country. If you what to know what they think read the Our’an and it will show you what to expect from them.

In the Middle East Muslims have a saying “ First comes Saturday and then comes Sunday. It means that first they will kill the Jews and then they will kill the Christians”. This will show what is coming to you and many of our brothers and sisters. I know Catholic Answer is very PC but doesn’t want to talk about some subject because they fear offending some one. One thing you can say that your new Pope is not fearful of say what he believes.

I have seen Muslims up close in the job I work at back in the late 1990’s I worked with people from Bosnia, Serbia and Croatian. My closes friend was a Serbian woman who worked with me and it would be too long to fill you in on how we became close friends so we will skip that.

Those people could not get a long to well, and I so that war up close. I had one Muslim yell at me for doing a kind thing for one Muslim lady I work with; like him I yelled at him, and I said why don’t you go back too your own country. I told him I was born here not you. I told him take you war home with you.

I used this line with a group of traditionalists Nuns that I know and it goes this way. We either stand together or we will swing separately.” That was use by a very one of our for father…

Have a great day.

 

[Memaw]

Memaw

Talking to one another is great, but remember that the differences that remain. The way that Orthodox Christians and Catholics view faith and practices and world view will be hard to over come…

The Pope wants to rule over all of the Christianity and the Orthodox Church rejects that how do we get past this.

The Pope would have to give up some stuff if he wants one Church. Remember that Power is hard to give up. It is also said that it is a two way street and I sure that we would have to give up also, but what?? Is the Pope ready to make a move on this maybe there could be some progress in this area.

I know how you Catholics see your faith and practice it. I use to be Catholic and understand you. Just so that you will know what part I was a part of in the Catholic Church. I was a Traditionalist Catholic and we view the true Mass as the Latin Tridentine Mass. You’re more then likely a member of a Novus Ordo Catholic group. Novus Ordo means New Ordo of the Mass. Just in case you didn’t know what it stood for.

Being unable to say some of what I want to say but what Muslims because they are not PC with Catholic Answer so we will leave it at that. I been burn once and will not go there again.

What I will have to say is this about Rome Catholic Church will best be said by this statement and I mean the Vatican. If Europe becomes Muslim and Italy falls to Islam I would like to ask you or any other Catholic. How long do you think that it will be allowed to be in the center of all of those Muslim that would be now rules of that country??? Look at HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople that was converted into a Mosque. The same thing would happen to the Vatican if they have their way. Only time will tell if this will happen, but watch the numbers of immigrants entering Europe and there off spring and it will tell you the future of Italy and the rest of Europe.

What faces the future if Christianity in both Western and Eastern Europe is a very radical group of people. I read what is going on in Europe. I know I can count the many births of Muslim babies on those countries. Christians in Europe are not having as many babies as they are. Can any one add??? Europe is sliding into a very trouble times ahead.

If Christianity in both Western and Eastern to live in those countries it will have to stand together even if we are not one in faith but we will have to work together on what troubles that part of the world.

I also want to tell you if you want to know what life would look like in the countries of Europe if Islam ever took control. All you would have to do, is look at life’s of Christians in the hell hole of the Middle East. They are treated with disrespect by there Muslims in those countries.

Muslims view Christians as people of the book. To the Muslims the two of us are viewed as second class people are not given full rights that they would have in their country. If you what to know what they think read the Our’an and it will show you what to expect from them.

In the Middle East Muslims have a saying “ First comes Saturday and then comes Sunday. It means that first they will kill the Jews and then they will kill the Christians”. This will show what is coming to you and many of our brothers and sisters. I know Catholic Answer is very PC but doesn’t want to talk about some subject because they fear offending some one. One thing you can say that your new Pope is not fearful of say what he believes.

I have seen Muslims up close in the job I work at back in the late 1990’s I worked with people from Bosnia, Serbia and Croatian. My closes friend was a Serbian woman who worked with me and it would be too long to fill you in on how we became close friends so we will skip that.

Those people could not get a long to well, and I so that war up close. I had one Muslim yell at me for doing a kind thing for one Muslim lady I work with; like him I yelled at him, and I said why don’t you go back too your own country. I told him I was born here not you. I told him take you war home with you.

I used this line with a group of traditionalists Nuns that I know and it goes this way. We either stand together or we will swing separately.” That was use by a very one of our for father…

Have a great day.

Maybe this Unity is closer than you think, at least I hope and pray it is. That is what Jesus prayed for, that ALL be ONE in HIM. Don’t forget, that Jesus set Peter up as the first POPE and the Catholic Church has had the Papacy for 2,000 years. It was Jesus that gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. The Papacy will be here till the end of the world. Maybe it would help if you studied Church History and the writings of the Early Church Fathers.
Schism is not the way to go. It is a division, and look what happened after the protestant revolt. In the past 500 years the protestants have divided into nearly 60,000 different denominations. Christ prayed for unity, not division.He established HIS Church and promised it would never teach error and the “gates of Hell” would never prevail against it. Maybe you should rethink your decision to leave the Catholic Church.

 

[guanophore]

Memaw

Talking to one another is great, but remember that the differences that remain. The way that Orthodox Christians and Catholics view faith and practices and world view will be hard to over come…

The Pope wants to rule over all of the Christianity and the Orthodox Church rejects that how do we get past this.

Can you please enlighten me about this strage comment. What makes you think this about the Pope?

The Pope would have to give up some stuff if he wants one Church. Remember that Power is hard to give up.

What “power” do you imagine that the Pope has, and why would he have to “give it up”?

It is also said that it is a two way street and I sure that we would have to give up also, but what?? Is the Pope ready to make a move on this maybe there could be some progress in this area.

Would I rightly understand that you are speaking of the Orthodox communion? If so, what do you think would have to change? Clearly you, as well as most Orthodox, see that the ORthodox have continued unwavering, and it is the Latin Church that has developed doctrine.

What I will have to say is this about Rome Catholic Church will best be said by this statement and I mean the Vatican. If Europe becomes Muslim and Italy falls to Islam I would like to ask you or any other Catholic. How long do you think that it will be allowed to be in the center of all of those Muslim that would be now rules of that country??? Look at HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople that was converted into a Mosque. The same thing would happen to the Vatican if they have their way. Only time will tell if this will happen, but watch the numbers of immigrants entering Europe and there off spring and it will tell you the future of Italy and the rest of Europe.

Yes, I fully expect that this will happen. I think the Church will once again be a persecuted Church as it was in the early days.

What faces the future if Christianity in both Western and Eastern Europe is a very radical group of people. I read what is going on in Europe. I know I can count the many births of Muslim babies on those countries. Christians in Europe are not having as many babies as they are. Can any one add??? Europe is sliding into a very trouble times ahead.

Not only in population, but in attitude.

If Christianity in both Western and Eastern to live in those countries it will have to stand together even if we are not one in faith but we will have to work together on what troubles that part of the world.

Yes, unity is a priority.

One thing you can say that your new Pope is not fearful of say what he believes.

Is this one of the “powers” he needs to give up?

 

[Frank_J]

Hi guanophore,

You asked me why I feel that The Pope wants to rule over all of the Christianity. Hey don’t you believe he is the head of the Catholic Church and his word is final am I right??? Your answer would be yes if I know your religion pretty good. The Pope will never accept the title first among equal as bishop of Rome. He wants to head of the Church and he will not except equal standing in the Church.

The Pope could never give up the power the Pope of Rome rules with you better then that. Just look at what a Pope can do, lets look at Pope Paul VI when he changed the Tridentine Mass and gave the Latin’s a so call Novus Ordo Mass. Look at the what the Pope did he cause the problems that the Catholic Church is now going through. Lack of vocations to Novus Ordo Religionist Orders.

Yet if you look at the Orders that only use the Latin Tridentine Mass are busting with vocations for both for Tradionalist Nuns and Priests. Catholic Church is bind and can not see what works and what don’t.

In your remarks of Orthodox have continued unwavering that is a good thing in this world. As the Catholic moves forward and goes beyond on a strict views of faith and morals. What one says this year should be the same as if it were to be repeated 100 years down the road. Let use this as an example at this time of what the RC allowed concerning with their communion host. After introducing communion in the hand at an earlier time in its history and after seeing problems develop with it, it started to restrict it to just bishops and priests. It was not until after Vatican II that it started all over again with the same results as before and has not learned from its own history.

I use to be a RC so I know what the Catholic Church says about it’s self. And what it teaches. I read history on not only of this country but Church history too.

HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople was example of what will one day happen to Vatican in the future I used this. Once the Vatican becomes a Mosque and Italy becomes a Muslim country the Roman Catholic Church title will become meaningless and will no long be a title that Latin’s will be able to use. This is fact not fiction.

One thing you can say that your new Pope, is he not fearful of say, what he believes. I respect this and kind of view he is very unlike your dead Pope John Paul II. Yet the Pope has to look at this in the light of he will need to have the help of the Orthodox Christian Church and he will need to do what is need if he wants to heal the break in Christian Churches and there is no way around that. The only way there will every be one Church the Roman Catholic will have to meet the Orthodox Church half way and I not sure Roman is ready as of yet. Maybe when Roman is becoming ever more Muslim will it start moving on this, but at this time I would say no. Pope is not ready at this time. Always remember that time is running out and time is against Pope.

Just to say more about your former Pope John Paul II. John Paul II was very much a Liberal and I spell it with a large (L) not a small (l). You can’t say that the title conservative fits him. The only thing conservative about John Paul II was his views on condoms and that is it.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

 

[Memaw]

Hi guanophore,

You asked me why I feel that The Pope wants to rule over all of the Christianity. Hey don’t you believe he is the head of the Catholic Church and his word is final am I right??? Your answer would be yes if I know your religion pretty good. The Pope will never accept the title first among equal as bishop of Rome. He wants to head of the Church and he will not except equal standing in the Church.

The Pope could never give up the power the Pope of Rome rules with you better then that. Just look at what a Pope can do, lets look at Pope Paul VI when he changed the Tridentine Mass and gave the Latin’s a so call Novus Ordo Mass. Look at the what the Pope did he cause the problems that the Catholic Church is now going through. Lack of vocations to Novus Ordo Religionist Orders.

Yet if you look at the Orders that only use the Latin Tridentine Mass are busting with vocations for both for Tradionalist Nuns and Priests. Catholic Church is bind and can not see what works and what don’t.

In your remarks of Orthodox have continued unwavering that is a good thing in this world. As the Catholic moves forward and goes beyond on a strict views of faith and morals. What one says this year should be the same as if it were to be repeated 100 years down the road. Let use this as an example at this time of what the RC allowed concerning with their communion host. After introducing communion in the hand at an earlier time in its history and after seeing problems develop with it, it started to restrict it to just bishops and priests. It was not until after Vatican II that it started all over again with the same results as before and has not learned from its own history.

I use to be a RC so I know what the Catholic Church says about it’s self. And what it teaches. I read history on not only of this country but Church history too.

HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople was example of what will one day happen to Vatican in the future I used this. Once the Vatican becomes a Mosque and Italy becomes a Muslim country the Roman Catholic Church title will become meaningless and will no long be a title that Latin’s will be able to use. This is fact not fiction.

One thing you can say that your new Pope, is he not fearful of say, what he believes. I respect this and kind of view he is very unlike your dead Pope John Paul II. Yet the Pope has to look at this in the light of he will need to have the help of the Orthodox Christian Church and he will need to do what is need if he wants to heal the break in Christian Churches and there is no way around that. The only way there will every be one Church the Roman Catholic will have to meet the Orthodox Church half way and I not sure Roman is ready as of yet. Maybe when Roman is becoming ever more Muslim will it start moving on this, but at this time I would say no. Pope is not ready at this time. Always remember that time is running out and time is against Pope.

Just to say more about your former Pope John Paul II. John Paul II was very much a Liberal and I spell it with a large (L) not a small (l). You can’t say that the title conservative fits him. The only thing conservative about John Paul II was his views on condoms and that is it.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

Sorry Frank but you don’t know a thing about the Roman Catholic Faith or the Pope that is the head of the Church. You people who know nothing, think you know everything and spread false statements about something you know nothing about. Have you ever heard of the 8th Commandment??

 

[Frank_J]

I maybe Orthodox Christians but I do know a lot about the Roman Church. I born and raised in the Roman Church so I think I can say something about it.

I remember the Latin Tridentine Mass was the Liturgy used in all Roman Churches so I have had a long run with Rome. I was a member at one time a member of a Traditionalists Movement at Holy Trinity German Catholic Church located in Boston. It is also said of Traditionalists that it is easier to bleed blood from a rock then to move a Traditionalists. Just because I Orthodox doesn’t stand in my way in not understanding the Roman Catholic Church.

Test me on what the Latin Church teaches and I can give you an answer???

I have a copy of my Baltimore Catechism do you??? I can read and write the King English. In order to show you what I know about the Catholic Religion I showed a Catholic Nuns that I know a ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII on the Liturgy called MEDIATOR DEI. The Pope talks about the what would happen if the Catholic Church ever turn the Altar around and made a table of it. When I show this encyclical she got up looking shocked and walk in to the next room to get her other sister. I didn’t show it to them to hurt them but to show them what I found from reading about it. When I showed them that I was still Catholic at the time.
When I started reading other stuff written by the Catholic Church and what other have said I learn that I didn’t belong in your Church and look for what would not say one thing and do another.

Here is the web site on the Vatican web site ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/index.htm

Will talk more about this if you like??

Have a great day.

Frank J.

 

[ibkc]

I born and raised in the Roman Church so I think I can say something about it.

So was my father-in-law, and he also claims to be an expert, but the fact is he doesn’t know squat about anything. From him we hear such gems as “Catholics don’t read the Bible, they just blindly follow dogma” and other rubbish.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I maybe Orthodox Christians but I do know a lot about the Roman Church. I born and raised in the Roman Church so I think I can say something about it.

I remember the Latin Tridentine Mass was the Liturgy used in all Roman Churches so I have had a long run with Rome. I was a member at one time a member of a Traditionalists Movement at Holy Trinity German Catholic Church located in Boston. It is also said of Traditionalists that it is easier to bleed blood from a rock then to move a Traditionalists. Just because I Orthodox doesn’t stand in my way in not understanding the Roman Catholic Church.

Test me on what the Latin Church teaches and I can give you an answer???

I have a copy of my Baltimore Catechism do you??? I can read and write the King English. In order to show you what I know about the Catholic Religion I showed a Catholic Nuns that I know a ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII on the Liturgy called MEDIATOR DEI. The Pope talks about the what would happen if the Catholic Church ever turn the Altar around and made a table of it. When I show this encyclical she got up looking shocked and walk in to the next room to get her other sister. I didn’t show it to them to hurt them but to show them what I found from reading about it. When I showed them that I was still Catholic at the time.
When I started reading other stuff written by the Catholic Church and what other have said I learn that I didn’t belong in your Church and look for what would not say one thing and do another.

Here is the web site on the Vatican web site ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/index.htm

Will talk more about this if you like??

Have a great day.

Frank J.

I am Roman Catholic and I can not say that I know all that the Church teaches on every issue out there. I find it to be very much in error to claim that one does. I hold to more of a traditional view on how the church should be, that there have been errors made since VII, But I will not put myself in opposition to the Church by rejecting the council or the N.O. I will pray for the Pope and other Bishops to make the correction as the Holy Spirit leads them in unity with in The Latin Church as well as with all the other believer in Christ.

I can not understand the Orthodox stance on the position of the Pope. If you believe that he is the first among equals the you must agree that when all discourse as been played out his word would be the final. Other wise you have no unity. So I do not believe this division between Catholic and Orthodox is as simple as the Authority of the Bishop of Rome.

As well we can look at the Eastern Rite Churches to see that the Holy father has no interest in the enforcement of the Latin Rite on the East. So it is becoming harder for Orthodox to make these claims against Rome. As i see things It looks more like the Bishops and Patriarchs of the Orthodox are more concerned with giving up their power than Rome is with its. (just something to think about)

I agree with your stance about the treat of Islam to Europe and we need to remember that united we stand and divided we fall. Not only do we of the Catholic and Orthodox faith need to come together but also those of the Protestant churches need to be brought back in union with us.

I pray Lord Jesus that your wondering flock may be reunited to her groom.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi guanophore,

You asked me why I feel that The Pope wants to rule over all of the Christianity. Hey don’t you believe he is the head of the Catholic Church and his word is final am I right??? Your answer would be yes if I know your religion pretty good. The Pope will never accept the title first among equal as bishop of Rome. He wants to head of the Church and he will not except equal standing in the Church.

The Pope could never give up the power the Pope of Rome rules with you better then that. Just look at what a Pope can do, lets look at Pope Paul VI when he changed the Tridentine Mass and gave the Latin’s a so call Novus Ordo Mass. Look at the what the Pope did he cause the problems that the Catholic Church is now going through. Lack of vocations to Novus Ordo Religionist Orders.

Yet if you look at the Orders that only use the Latin Tridentine Mass are busting with vocations for both for Tradionalist Nuns and Priests. Catholic Church is bind and can not see what works and what don’t.

In your remarks of Orthodox have continued unwavering that is a good thing in this world. As the Catholic moves forward and goes beyond on a strict views of faith and morals. What one says this year should be the same as if it were to be repeated 100 years down the road. Let use this as an example at this time of what the RC allowed concerning with their communion host. After introducing communion in the hand at an earlier time in its history and after seeing problems develop with it, it started to restrict it to just bishops and priests. It was not until after Vatican II that it started all over again with the same results as before and has not learned from its own history.

I use to be a RC so I know what the Catholic Church says about it’s self. And what it teaches. I read history on not only of this country but Church history too.

HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople was example of what will one day happen to Vatican in the future I used this. Once the Vatican becomes a Mosque and Italy becomes a Muslim country the Roman Catholic Church title will become meaningless and will no long be a title that Latin’s will be able to use. This is fact not fiction.

One thing you can say that your new Pope, is he not fearful of say, what he believes. I respect this and kind of view he is very unlike your dead Pope John Paul II. Yet the Pope has to look at this in the light of he will need to have the help of the Orthodox Christian Church and he will need to do what is need if he wants to heal the break in Christian Churches and there is no way around that. The only way there will every be one Church the Roman Catholic will have to meet the Orthodox Church half way and I not sure Roman is ready as of yet. Maybe when Roman is becoming ever more Muslim will it start moving on this, but at this time I would say no. Pope is not ready at this time. Always remember that time is running out and time is against Pope.

Just to say more about your former Pope John Paul II. John Paul II was very much a Liberal and I spell it with a large (L) not a small (l). You can’t say that the title conservative fits him. The only thing conservative about John Paul II was his views on condoms and that is it.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

Frank,

Your assumption that the Vatican will might become Muslim is but wishful thinking. It will not happen. The Holy See will always be around.

 

[Frank_J]

Mannyfit75,

Your quote is as follows.

Your assumption that the Vatican will might become Muslim is but wishful thinking. It will not happen. The Holy See will always be around.

Don’t for get your so call Fatima seese who said that they so the Pope being kick if my mind recalls me. I to have read this stuff. That is if you believe the so called predictions. I not sure what you believe so I can not answer that. I read stuff about Fatima too. Let us see what happen in 40 years to Europe.

Remember the faith that is spread by the sword. I read what is happening in Europe and you can see the witting on the wall. I have read middle class peoples Denmark in ever large numbers.

There is a good book that you may find a possible to read book it is called " The Next Christendom The coming of Global Christianity. It talks about in are of the book that the Catholic will, become a Third world religion and Latin American religion. It said that you see less and less European Catholic much like how many white Buddhists are in the world.

The Orthodox felt the same way about HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople, but you can see what happen when Latin Catholic didn’t help my brothers and sisters in saving it.

You see Muslims up close since you are serving in a Muslim area. I have read the reports that Christians are leaving Iraq. Washington is not protecting them at all. I read a lot of the foreign News from the Middle East.
I read articles written by Christians on the topic of how well Christians are doing in Muslim countries all over the world. This will tell me much about the interactions of Christians and Muslims in Western Europe

Also remember that George Bush will be leaving the White House in January 20, 2009 and more then likely the next President will be a Democrat and you know that the ones that are running are both losers. There are no President Roland Reagan in this years pick.

Democrats believe in losing this war we are now in. They’re the ones talk about retreating. Time is running out for all of us. I can see another 9/11 happening again if we are not careful.

Thank you for serving this country in defense of the homeland. I have the deepest respect for the men that are fighting against you know who.

Unable to place word in this Chat because Catholic Answers too P.C. and will get bent out of shape over it. It’s on the forbidden book lists you could say.

Will chat more later.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Your quote is as follows.

Your assumption that the Vatican will might become Muslim is but wishful thinking. It will not happen. The Holy See will always be around.

Don’t for get your so call Fatima seese who said that they so the Pope being kick if my mind recalls me. I to have read this stuff. That is if you believe the so called predictions. I not sure what you believe so I can not answer that. I read stuff about Fatima too. Let us see what happen in 40 years to Europe.

The Pope will probably go under ground like it did in ancient times. The Pope will still be around if Europe becomes a Muslim continent.

Remember the faith that is spread by the sword. I read what is happening in Europe and you can see the witting on the wall. I have read middle class peoples Denmark in ever large numbers.

There is a good book that you may find a possible to read book it is called " The Next Christendom The coming of Global Christianity. It talks about in are of the book that the Catholic will, become a Third world religion and Latin American religion. It said that you see less and less European Catholic much like how many white Buddhists are in the world.

I don’t it. That book is based on hypothesis and theories.

The Orthodox felt the same way about HAGIA SOPHIA of Constantinople, but you can see what happen when Latin Catholic didn’t help my brothers and sisters in saving it.

You see Muslims up close since you are serving in a Muslim area. I have read the reports that Christians are leaving Iraq. Washington is not protecting them at all. I read a lot of the foreign News from the Middle East.

Oh, I am well aware of that. I’m in Iraq my friend. I heard the flight of the Iraqis here and I know several Iraqi Christians.

I read articles written by Christians on the topic of how well Christians are doing in Muslim countries all over the world. This will tell me much about the interactions of Christians and Muslims in Western Europe

Personally, I believe Muslims need to be booted out of Europe. They don’t belong there. They should remain in Islamic countries.

Also remember that George Bush will be leaving the White House in January 20, 2009 and more then likely the next President will be a Democrat and you know that the ones that are running are both losers. There are no President Roland Reagan in this years pick.

Democrats believe in losing this war we are now in. They’re the ones talk about retreating. Time is running out for all of us. I can see another 9/11 happening again if we are not careful.

Thank you for serving this country in defense of the homeland. I have the deepest respect for the men that are fighting against you know who.

Do you think I don’t know that? I know Bush is leaving. He send me here in Iraq twice! I doubt the next President will be Democrat. He will be Republican.

Unable to place word in this Chat because Catholic Answers too P.C. and will get bent out of shape over it. It’s on the forbidden book lists you could say.

Will chat more later.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

I hardly think Catholic Answers is too PC.

 

[Memaw]

I am Roman Catholic and I can not say that I know all that the Church teaches on every issue out there. I find it to be very much in error to claim that one does. I hold to more of a traditional view on how the church should be, that there have been errors made since VII, But I will not put myself in opposition to the Church by rejecting the council or the N.O. I will pray for the Pope and other Bishops to make the correction as the Holy Spirit leads them in unity with in The Latin Church as well as with all the other believer in Christ.

I can not understand the Orthodox stance on the position of the Pope. If you believe that he is the first among equals the you must agree that when all discourse as been played out his word would be the final. Other wise you have no unity. So I do not believe this division between Catholic and Orthodox is as simple as the Authority of the Bishop of Rome.

As well we can look at the Eastern Rite Churches to see that the Holy father has no interest in the enforcement of the Latin Rite on the East. So it is becoming harder for Orthodox to make these claims against Rome. As i see things It looks more like the Bishops and Patriarchs of the Orthodox are more concerned with giving up their power than Rome is with its. (just something to think about)

I agree with your stance about the treat of Islam to Europe and we need to remember that united we stand and divided we fall. Not only do we of the Catholic and Orthodox faith need to come together but also those of the Protestant churches need to be brought back in union with us.

I pray Lord Jesus that your wondering flock may be reunited to her groom.

In the Catholic Church the Pope considers himself a Servant of God, not an equal among equals. Its not a matter of power, it is an awesome responsibility to be the Pope of over 6 Billion people. Peter was chosen by Christ to be His first Pope, and we have had 265 Popes in an unbroken succession. I talked to an Orthodox Bishop a couple years ago and he was anxious to be re-united with Rome. He said he thought it would happen in his lifetime and he was probably about 50. So we shall see. Seems to me its getting closer all the time. I pray for the unity of all Christians. Christ prayed that all would be one in HIM and I do too.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

In the Catholic Church the Pope considers himself a Servant of God, not an equal among equals. Its not a matter of power, it is an awesome responsibility to be the Pope of over 6 Billion people. Peter was chosen by Christ to be His first Pope, and we have had 265 Popes in an unbroken succession. I talked to an Orthodox Bishop a couple years ago and he was anxious to be re-united with Rome. He said he thought it would happen in his lifetime and he was probably about 50. So we shall see. Seems to me its getting closer all the time. I pray for the unity of all Christians. Christ prayed that all would be one in HIM and I do too.

Memaw than you for your response. I did not say the Pope was first among Equals. I was stating what I have heard those of the Orthodox faith claim.

 

[Memaw]

Memaw thank you for your response. I did not say the Pope was first among Equals. I was stating what I have heard those of the Orthodox faith claim.

Sorry, I just put that on for general information, Memaw