As church demographics shift, Catholics urged to address 'sin of racism'

[Ridgerunner]

You got me there. Im guilty as sin.

I have a niece who eschewed a reasonably-priced Catholic grade school education for her children, choosing instead a pricey secular private school. Why? Because, she said, the Catholic schools lacked “diversity” whereas the private school studiously ensured that it had “diversity”.

And so, her white, suburban, professional-class children go to a school in which there are also some Asian and black, suburban, professional-class children.

And this is diversity?

There would have been more diversity in a social sense in the Catholic school, since the students did not all come from suburban, professional-class families. But it did make her feel good.

The public school, of course, was out of the question, being riddled with crime and drug use.

I didn’t say anything.

 

[pnewton]

So, the priest is to encourage us to pray for racists that they stop being racists. Is that the sum and total of it?

No. He did not mention that. If you read back, you will find that you addressed a question to me, asking if I have any concrete ideas. Prayer is a concrete idea. Saying a prayer asking racists not to be racists is your wording, and would never be said as a prayer intention. I hope you do not write them. I would say that a better prayer would be for the victims of the violence, if the incident was violent, for peace in the community, or maybe that all parties will set aside their differences and look for the common dignity in all men and women.

 

[pnewton]

…Please stop fabricating problems that do not exist. Or prove it with facts.

Who is this directed at? No poster here has fabricated anything. The priest did not make one false statement. No one is fabricating anything. “Please stop” what?

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I hear similar comments from my husband’s family in rural Wisconsin, which is predominately Catholic and they have hardly any black people there at all. I don’t think it’s a regional thing or has to do with urban or rural environments.

I don’t know what it is, but the only time I’ve heard people talk like that was when I was in a fraternity and shortly thereafter the Air Force.

Heck, none of the adults in my demographic (30s and 40s) would say that, regardless of their religious affiliation. It’s just classless.

The thing is I don’t think most of the people you descrive aren’t aware racism is sinful; they probably just don’t care. Just like people who skip Mass because johnny has a baseball game. They don’t care.

I am not sure remnding them that racism is sinful is going to do any good.

Either way, as long as it is discussed in the context of actual racism and not “whites hurting blacks” I’ll listen. No race has a stanglehold on having racists in its midst, and they are all guilty.

 

[Landon_Caeli]

No one is fabricating anything. “Please stop” what?

Did you see post 9? Do you watch the news? Have you heard of “white privilege”…? …Now imagine the concept of White Privilege being applied to Catholics in the Church. Why start down that road?

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I have a niece who eschewed a reasonably-priced Catholic grade school education for her children, choosing instead a pricey secular private school. Why? Because, she said, the Catholic schools lacked “diversity” whereas the private school studiously ensured that it had “diversity”.

And so, her white, suburban, professional-class children go to a school in which there are also some Asian and black, suburban, professional-class children.

And this is diversity?

There would have been more diversity in a social sense in the Catholic school, since the students did not all come from suburban, professional-class families. But it did make her feel good.

The public school, of course, was out of the question, being riddled with crime and drug use.

I didn’t say anything.

Yes, hanging around wealthy, preppy racial minorities sure does make you feel good. Please. The environment each dhild was raised in, which was likely close to the same given their socio-economic background, had far more to do with who they were than their skin tone.

People claim to want exposure to diversity, but they don’t really mean it. Do the parents at wealthy prep schools want to open the doors to the children of crack addicts and strippers, regardless of race? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[pnewton]

Did you see post 9?

Here is that post in its entirety, "How do you know this? "

Perhaps instead of fabricating anything as you suggest, the priest and the article, and maybe some here, do not live in such an enlightened town community as you do. You are *very *quick to accuse one of fabrication based on your own limited experience, as though no priest should or needs to address this issue.

Interesting.

 

[Landon_Caeli]

I have a niece who eschewed a reasonably-priced Catholic grade school education for her children, choosing instead a pricey secular private school. Why? Because, she said, the Catholic schools lacked “diversity” whereas the private school studiously ensured that it had “diversity”.

And so, her white, suburban, professional-class children go to a school in which there are also some Asian and black, suburban, professional-class children.

And this is diversity?

There would have been more diversity in a social sense in the Catholic school, since the students did not all come from suburban, professional-class families. But it did make her feel good.

The public school, of course, was out of the question, being riddled with crime and drug use.

I didn’t say anything.

It may be true, that the diversity of skin color in our community is not really worth noticing. But then too, even the poor immigrant classmates, that my 5 year old attends school with, isnt really much of an accomplishment either… What’s the point? Honestly, why does any of it matter…?

 

[Ridgerunner]

It may be true, that the diversity of skin color in our community is not really worth noticing. But then too, even the poor immigrant classmates, that my 5 year old attends school with, isnt really much of an accomplishment either… What’s the point? Honestly, why does any of it matter…?

It has seemed to me that there is some value in kids knowing people who are not exactly like themselves. I don’t consider that a huge thing, but at least they don’t first encounter people of a different socioeconomic/educational level for the very first time as adults.

 

[TCEL]

In the churches I’ve been to for the past few years, there’ve been a predominance of white people, sure. I also regularly see people from all over Africa, Asia, South America, and Mexico. I myself was born in Maryland, and baptized in Rome. I guess I feel like the place where I really do see diversity is in the Church, and I love it!

There’s also beauty to the different cultural dynamics, and we shouldn’t try to be something we aren’t, either. There’s a reason there are different orders with different charisms within the Church! Sorry for being so schmaltzy, but I really do think it’s like different facets of the same gem. Diversity is, truly, diversity.

 

[Landon_Caeli]

It has seemed to me that there is some value in kids knowing people who are not exactly like themselves. I don’t consider that a huge thing, but at least they don’t first encounter people of a different socioeconomic/educational level for the very first time as adults.

That’s a good point -and also, my 5 year old has no idea what socio-economic differences are… She sees her classmates as either nice or mean kids. Thats it.

…varying skin tones havent even dawned on her as a ‘thing’ yet, and I hope to keep it that way for as long as possible.

 

[Landon_Caeli]

Here is that post in its entirety, "How do you know this? "

Perhaps instead of fabricating anything as you suggest, the priest and the article, and maybe some here, do not live in such an enlightened town community as you do. You are *very *quick to accuse one of fabrication based on your own limited experience, as though no priest should or needs to address this issue.

Interesting.

Maybe youre right. It could be that I have experienced racism, and view it as a ‘negative’, therefore I oppose anyone who wishes to highlight such a negative concept.

…I dont believe dialogue is good for everything. I know its not for someone grieving a death -to constantly bring it up. It’s not necessarily even good for evangelization -leading by example is often the better route.

 

[Allegra]

I don’t know what it is, but the only time I’ve heard people talk like that was when I was in a fraternity and shortly thereafter the Air Force.

Heck, none of the adults in my demographic (30s and 40s) would say that, regardless of their religious affiliation. It’s just classless.

The thing is I don’t think most of the people you descrive aren’t aware racism is sinful; they probably just don’t care. Just like people who skip Mass because johnny has a baseball game. They don’t care.

I am not sure remnding them that racism is sinful is going to do any good.

Either way, as long as it is discussed in the context of actual racism and not “whites hurting blacks” I’ll listen. No race has a stanglehold on having racists in its midst, and they are all guilty.

In my experience, the people who say those things adamantly insist that they aren’t racist and if “those people” would just get their act together they wouldn’t have a problem with them. I guess the concept of a stereotype is lost on some people. The really disturbing thing is that many of these folks have never actually interacted with a black person in their lives, other than viewing them suspiciously across the aisle when they took a train ride in the 11th grade.

 

[Ridgerunner]

In my experience, the people who say those things adamantly insist that they aren’t racist and if “those people” would just get their act together they wouldn’t have a problem with them. I guess the concept of a stereotype is lost on some people. The really disturbing thing is that many of these folks have never actually interacted with a black person in their lives, other than viewing them suspiciously across the aisle when they took a train ride in the 11th grade.

Sometimes “sterotyping” is just being smart. Where I live, for example, it is almost always foolish for a white man to flirt with a Hispanic woman at work. Do all such incidents result in him being met by her male relatives in the parking lot with machetes? No. But enough of them do that one would be a fool not to consider Hispanic women “off limits” for an “Anglo”, generally speaking. If the flirter is black, it’s pretty much guaranteed that he WILL meet her male relatives in an unpleasant circumstance.

What sane white person would walk into a neighborhood at night in the north side of St. Louis? What sane black person would walk into a “hillbilly ghetto” at night or accost a local woman on “The Hill”?

Sometimes 'stereotypes" can save a person’s life or limb. But it does not mean every white in St. Louis has reason to fear every black, or every black has reason to fear every white, or that I can’t be friends with a Latino. And being wary of walking around in the north side of St. Louis at night doesn’t mean I’m “committing the sin of racism”. I’m just being realistic concerning potential hazards, just as I would be in refraining from driving 100 mph down 40 highway.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

In my experience, the people who say those things adamantly insist that they aren’t racist and if “those people” would just get their act together they wouldn’t have a problem with them. I guess the concept of a stereotype is lost on some people. The really disturbing thing is that many of these folks have never actually interacted with a black person in their lives, other than viewing them suspiciously across the aisle when they took a train ride in the 11th grade.

Some of what you say is true, though having lived in upscale suburbia, middle class areas around military bases, Hoboken, NJ, and in Turkey, I’d say I haven’t ever met someone, racist or not, who hasn’t met someone of the race they decry.

Regardless, if we frame the discussion in the conext of racism against simple black people, you are going to lose a lot of steam and people will tune you out. While racism exists, it exists in some form amongst all races, towards all races. I’ve seen as many racist attitudes towards whites as I have towards blacks, depending on where I lived. Best to attack that, not single out the angry racist white folk you’ve run across.

 

[outremer]

Perhaps the Church should focus on the collapse of faith among American Catholics. Countless millions have abandoned the faith, and countless millions reject various doctrinal tenets. “Sin of racism” makes it sound like a Unitarian Universalist pastor wrote this drivel.

NOTE: Don’t get me wrong. Hatred of any form is horrible and needs to be addressed.

 

[Landon_Caeli]

Some of what you say is true, though having lived in upscale suburbia, middle class areas around military bases, Hoboken, NJ, and in Turkey, I’d say I haven’t ever met someone, racist or not, who hasn’t met someone of the race they decry.

Regardless, if we frame the discussion in the conext of racism against simple black people, you are going to lose a lot of steam and people will tune you out. While racism exists, it exists in some form amongst all races, towards all races. I’ve seen as many racist attitudes towards whites as I have towards blacks, depending on where I lived. Best to attack that, not single out the angry racist white folk you’ve run across.

In my humble opinion, it’s best to ignore all racism if you can, no matter what angle it comes from. Like death, it’s just bad.