As Church Shifts, a Cardinal Welcomes Gays; They Embrace a ‘Miracle’

[Stat_Crux]

nytimes.com/2017/06/13/nyregion/catholic-church-gays-mass-newark-cathedral.html

From the article:

Four years ago, Pope Francis set the Catholic world aflame with his comment about gay priests seeking the Lord: “Who am I to judge?” But it was unclear how his words would affect Catholics seeking acceptance in the pews.

After all, the church teaches in its catechism that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” Men who “present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called gay culture” arenot to become priests, according to Vatican instructionsrenewed in 2016. Catholic bishops in America have strongly opposedsame-sex marriage. More than 100 employees of Catholic institutions across the nation havelost their postsin the past three years for being gay or for marrying a same-sex spouse, according to Marianne Duddy-Burke, executive director ofDignityUSA, an organization of Catholics that advocates equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

But gestures like Cardinal Tobin’s are evidence that Pope Francis’ words are having an impact. Bishops now have latitude to focus on the more inclusive parts of the church’scatechismon homosexuals, such as the call to accept them with “respect, compassion and sensitivity.” They can follow the principle of*accompaniment, meaning they can meet people where they are spiritually and build relationships that help them deepen their faith.

“It’s the beginning of a dialogue,” said Francis DeBernardo, the executive director New Ways Ministry, a group that ministers to and is an advocate for gay Catholics. “The church leadership, for the past 40 years, has just been so silent, and unwilling to dialogue, and unwilling to pray with L.G.B.T. Catholics that, even though this isn’t the ultimate step, it’s a first step,” he said of Cardinal Tobin’s welcome.

 

[10gr8kids]

These articles are written to make it seem like the Church is changing. Welcoming sinners is what the Church has always done, along with pointing out the sin in every persons’ life and calling us to repentance. I can’t seem to go to Mass without hearing how I am suppose to love my enemies. That is something I find very hard to do and it would be much more comfortable for me to not have to hear that; however it would not do my soul much good. Maybe the change is that more sinners are starting to listen to the Church. If that is the case then it will be a very welcomed change.

 

[reggieM]

“Everyone is welcome in the church, but no one is accepted as they are,” said the Rev. Robert Gahl, a professor of ethics at Opus Dei’s Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome. “While I am delighted that they went to Mass in the cathedral, I hope that Cardinal Tobin challenged them, as all good shepherds should, to live according to the teachings of Jesus.”

Of course, good point. Everyone is welcome. Nobody is asked about what sins they’re committing. But if people want to proclaim a lifestyle of some kind, someone needs to help them through kindness and telling the truth to them.

Cardinal Tobin, in response, said in an interview last week that to combine his welcome with a criticism would not have been a full welcome at all.

“That sounds a little backhanded to me,” he said. “It was appropriate to welcome people to come and pray and call them who they were. And later on, we can talk.”

No, not “we can talk”, but “we must talk”. But what “we can talk” usually means is “we don’t need to talk about it - so we won’t”

Many of those in attendance were moved to tears.

“It felt like a miracle,” Ed Poliandro, a member of St. Francis Xavier Parish in Manhattan and a clinical social worker. “It was a miracle to have church leaders say, ‘You are welcome; you belong.’ And I felt, after a lifetime of struggle, that we are home.”

A lifetime of struggle has come to an end? I wonder what will happen when Cardinal Tobin actually has that “talk” with Mr. Poliandro that he claimed he would. Perhaps those tears of joy will turn to different kinds of tears (hopefully tears of repentance).
Even the sinner finds a home in the Church - this has always been true. But we’re called to change. Every one of us.

“He brought Francis to us,” said Thomas M. Smith, 66, a deacon who serves the deaf community at the Newark cathedral. “I’ve been waiting 25 years for this. I’m a deacon in the church and I’ve had to be careful. And afraid.”

He teared up, remembering how his parents had died thinking he would go to hell if he found someone to love. “This is amazing to me,” he said.

Ok, a Catholic deacon, ordained to serve Christ …
I guess he believes that a gay relationship is not a mortal sin any more.
He’s been waiting 25 years for someone to tell him that he need not fear hell.
Was he ordained under false pretenses? Not accepting the teaching of the Church.

Yes, yes - I know. Who am I to judge …
If some has an answer for all of this, though - I would appreciate it anyway.

 

[Polycarp1]

These articles are written to make it seem like the Church is changing. Welcoming sinners is what the Church has always done, along with pointing out the sin in every persons’ life and calling us to repentance. I can’t seem to go to Mass without hearing how I am suppose to love my enemies. That is something I find very hard to do and it would be much more comfortable for me to not have to hear that; however it would not do my soul much good. Maybe the change is that more sinners are starting to listen to the Church. If that is the case then it will be a very welcomed change.

We are called to love everyone, but that does not mean liking everyone or liking everything they say and do. We love everyone with a sincere hope that they will repent, obtain salvation and not perish, because that is our Lord’s wish as well. That there are some people we prefer not to be around because of their behavior is different from wishing bad things would happen to them.

 

[tseleehw]

Of course, good point. Everyone is welcome. Nobody is asked about what sins they’re committing. But if people want to proclaim a lifestyle of some kind, someone needs to help them through kindness and telling the truth to them.

No, not “we can talk”, but “we must talk”. But what “we can talk” usually means is “we don’t need to talk about it - so we won’t”

A lifetime of struggle has come to an end? I wonder what will happen when Cardinal Tobin actually has that “talk” with Mr. Poliandro that he claimed he would. Perhaps those tears of joy will turn to different kinds of tears (hopefully tears of repentance).
Even the sinner finds a home in the Church - this has always been true. But we’re called to change. Every one of us.

Ok, a Catholic deacon, ordained to serve Christ …
I guess he believes that a gay relationship is not a mortal sin any more.
He’s been waiting 25 years for someone to tell him that he need not fear hell.
Was he ordained under false pretenses? Not accepting the teaching of the Church.

Yes, yes - I know. Who am I to judge …
If some has an answer for all of this, though - I would appreciate it anyway.

I generally agree with what you have said. Such spectacles as these masses, while perhaps held with truly good intentions (or maybe not, who knows), probably do more harm than good in the long run. Sure, welcoming people back into the Church is great, but it feels hollow if you’re not being totally honest with them, that Church teachings have not changed, which I am fairly certain that not everyone understands. The quote you have from that deacon is truly disturbing and very telling that even if a deacon can’t get the message, then what hope is there for the ordinary layperson.

I wouldn’t have such a problem with something like this if it was followed up upon with some other kind of outreach that would further welcome gay individuals back into the Church while gently and charitably impressing upon them the importance and facts about Church teachings on homosexuality. Maybe something like this does exist within the diocese, or will be organized and my criticism is misplaced. Maybe it isn’t talked about much publicly because it wouldn’t be such a good PR victory-lap for the diocese in the secular media. But I am somewhat doubting this is the case (but am willing to be proven wrong). As it stands, organizing an event such as this feels almost like an empty gesture, for the most part.

 

[reggieM]

I generally agree with what you have said. Such spectacles as these masses, while perhaps held with truly good intentions (or maybe not, who knows), probably do more harm than good in the long run. Sure, welcoming people back into the Church is great, but it feels hollow if you’re not being totally honest with them, that Church teachings have not changed, which I am fairly certain that not everyone understands. The quote you have from that deacon is truly disturbing and very telling that even if a deacon can’t get the message, then what hope is there for the ordinary layperson.

I wouldn’t have such a problem with something like this if it was followed up upon with some other kind of outreach that would further welcome gay individuals back into the Church while gently and charitably impressing upon them the importance and facts about Church teachings on homosexuality. Maybe something like this does exist within the diocese, or will be organized and my criticism is misplaced. Maybe it isn’t talked about much publicly because it wouldn’t be such a good PR victory-lap for the diocese in the secular media. But I am somewhat doubting this is the case (but am willing to be proven wrong). As it stands, organizing an event such as this feels almost like an empty gesture, for the most part.

Good post. Very good points.

 

[Memaw]

We are called to love everyone, but that does not mean liking everyone or liking everything they say and do. We love everyone with a sincere hope that they will repent, obtain salvation and not perish, because that is our Lord’s wish as well. That there are some people we prefer not to be around because of their behavior is different from wishing bad things would happen to them.

AMEN, and to say ‘who am I to judge’ simply means we don’t judge their soul’s eternity. That’s only between them and God, but we CAN and SHOULD judge the actions. And PRAY for them!!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[elohimrules]

I am not to judge. But I do know that as a Catholic I need to follow the CC teachings and right now they are against homosexuality. It doesn’t mean I don’t love the person of course I do, but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with the lifestyle to love the person. I must follow church teachings.

 

[Thorolfr]

The part of this article that surprised me the most is that gay Catholics, including some who are married to same-sex spouses, were invited to take part in Holy Communion:

But Cardinal Tobin’s welcome to Mass on May 21 has been the most significant of such recent gestures, because of the symbolism of a cardinal welcoming a group of gay Catholics, some of whom were married to same-sex spouses, to participate in the Sacrament of Holy Communion at the center of a cathedral, no questions asked.

I’m glad that the Cardinal did this. I found this disturbing but not surprising:

Showing just how sensitive the simple act of welcome could be, he said that after the Mass he had received a fair amount of visceral hate mail from fellow Catholics. Someone was even organizing a letter-writing campaign to call on other bishops to correct him.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

Thanks for the fake news link.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

“Church shifts?” Sounds like fake news. Active gays still go to hell if they die in that state, as will all in a state of Mortal Sin. No shift at all.

 

[Memaw]

The part of this article that surprised me the most is that gay Catholics, including some who are married to same-sex spouses, were invited to take part in Holy Communion:

I’m glad that the Cardinal did this. I found this disturbing but not surprising:

The Cardinal and those he is misleading should read 1 Cor 11:23-29. And we should pray for all of them. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Seamus_L]

What am I missing here. Homosexual acts are grievous sins. We’re only suppose to receive Holy Communion in a state of grace. The Cardinal invited them to receive Communion without repenting of those sins first.
Couple times in my life I've actually heard Catholic priests say the words "I will have to answer to God if I knowingly give Our Lord's body to someone in a state of mortal sin". This belief appears to be changing in some dioceses.

 

[Peter_J]

The part of this article that surprised me the most is that gay Catholics, including some who are married to same-sex spouses, were invited to take part in Holy Communion:

But here’s the thing, the title says “As Church Shifts, a Cardinal Welcomes Gays”. That’s not a shift, it has always been the case that we should welcome “gays”, which does not mean approving of SSM.

It’s like if an headline read “A Cardinal welcomes Straights” and then inside the article you learned that it meant condoning divorce and remarriage.

I found this disturbing but not surprising:

Showing just how sensitive the simple act of welcome could be, he said that after the Mass he had received a fair amount of visceral hate mail from fellow Catholics. Someone was even organizing a letter-writing campaign to call on other bishops to correct him.

I don’t support hate mail (or in more modern practices, hate-posts on a discussion forum) of course, but it seems appropriate for Catholics to be able to express disagreement with the Cardinal’s actions.

 

[pnewton]

I tried to read the article but slid down to the bottom. The slant was too steep for me.