As Church Shifts, a Cardinal Welcomes Gays; They Embrace a ‘Miracle’

[ComplineSanFran]

Cardinal Tobin of Newark, NJ actually invited and welcomed LGBTQ Catholics to Mass in his Cathedral. What an extraordinary gesture. I haven’t seen this posted and wondered why people have not responded. Did I miss it?

Cardinal Tobin’s welcome to Mass on May 21 has been the most significant of such recent gestures, because of the symbolism of a cardinal welcoming a group of gay Catholics, some of whom were married to same-sex spouses, to participate in the Sacrament of Holy Communion at the center of a cathedral, no questions asked.

“He brought Francis to us,” said Thomas M. Smith, 66, a deacon who serves the deaf community at the Newark cathedral. “I’ve been waiting 25 years for this. I’m a deacon in the church, and I’ve had to be careful. And afraid.”

He teared up, remembering how his parents had died thinking he would go to hell if he found someone to love. “This is amazing to me,” he said.

nytimes.com/2017/06/13/nyregion/catholic-church-gays-mass-newark-cathedral.html

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Cardinal Tobin of Newark, NJ actually invited and welcomed LGBTQ Catholics to Mass in his Cathedral. What an extraordinary gesture. I haven’t seen this posted and wondered why people have not responded. Did I miss it?

nytimes.com/2017/06/13/nyregion/catholic-church-gays-mass-newark-cathedral.html

LGBTQ Catholics, just like any other Catholics, have always been invited and welcomed to Mass in any Catholic church or Cathedral so I fail to understand what is ‘news’ here. . .also there is no ‘shift’ in the Church such as is implied by the media.

Maybe that’s why you haven’t seen much of a response?

 

[mrdrifter]

Cardinal Tobin of Newark, NJ actually invited and welcomed LGBTQ Catholics to Mass in his Cathedral. What an extraordinary gesture. I haven’t seen this posted and wondered why people have not responded. Did I miss it?

What was extraordinary about it?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

What was extraordinary about it?

What was extraordinary? I see these things:

That the Cardinal and fellow clergy worked with organizations such as Dignity and New Ways Ministry to create a Mass specifically for gay men and women.

That the Cardinal spoke to them and said that they were welcome without judgement, but calling them as they are - gay men and women. NOT as ‘Same-sex attracted’ men and women. (That has been a big talking point with Jim Martin and his new book.)

That the Mass was open communion. No questions asked.

That the men and women attending were, in many cases, married to their partners. In other words, sexually active men and women attended and received communion.

That the Cardinal got a lot of criticism and push back from fellow Church members. He is staying his ground.

That the Mass symbolized a door opening for a significant population of Catholics who have felt anything but ‘welcome’ in the RCC.

Those are my thoughts on reading the piece in the NYTimes and hearing friends and colleagues who are talking about this a LOT.

 

[mrdrifter]

What was extraordinary? I see these things:

That the Cardinal and fellow clergy worked with organizations such as Dignity and New Ways Ministry to create a Mass specifically for gay men and women.

That the Cardinal spoke to them and said that they were welcome without judgement, but calling them as they are - gay men and women. NOT as ‘Same-sex attracted’ men and women. (That has been a big talking point with Jim Martin and his new book.)

That the Mass was open communion. No questions asked.

That the men and women attending were, in many cases, married to their partners. In other words, sexually active men and women attended and received communion.

That the Cardinal got a lot of criticism and push back from fellow Church members. He is staying his ground.

That the Mass symbolized a door opening for a significant population of Catholics who have felt anything but ‘welcome’ in the RCC.

Those are my thoughts on reading the piece in the NYTimes and hearing friends and colleagues who are talking about this a LOT.

So do you think this was a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

So do you think this was a good thing or a bad thing?

Very much a good thing. I know some here may disagree, but for those who attended and for those who only heard about it, it is a wonderful door opening for men, women, transgendered, and their families.

 

[mrdrifter]

Very much a good thing. I know some here may disagree, but for those who attended and for those who only heard about it, it is a wonderful door opening for men, women, transgendered, and their families.

Do you think the RCC’s teaching about homosexuality is wrong? That it should be changed?

 

[GEddie]

Anybody can go to Mass. What they cannot do, if in sin, is to receive Holy Communion. That has never changed.

And one Cardinal’s opinion does not per se imply a shift in the Church.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ChaosGamma]

What was extraordinary? I see these things:

That the Cardinal and fellow clergy worked with organizations such as Dignity and New Ways Ministry to create a Mass specifically for gay men and women.

That the Cardinal spoke to them and said that they were welcome without judgement, but calling them as they are - gay men and women. NOT as ‘Same-sex attracted’ men and women. (That has been a big talking point with Jim Martin and his new book.)

That the Mass was open communion. No questions asked.

That the men and women attending were, in many cases, married to their partners. In other words, sexually active men and women attended and received communion.

That the Cardinal got a lot of criticism and push back from fellow Church members. He is staying his ground.

That the Mass symbolized a door opening for a significant population of Catholics who have felt anything but ‘welcome’ in the RCC.

Those are my thoughts on reading the piece in the NYTimes and hearing friends and colleagues who are talking about this a LOT.

In other words, a Catholic Cardinal inviting unrepentant sinners to commit a further sin and thus put themselves (and himself) in danger of damnation.

Of course, I don’t expect any condemnation of this from Rome. What times we live in.

 

[josh987654321]

Cardinal Tobin of Newark, NJ actually invited and welcomed LGBTQ Catholics to Mass in his Cathedral. What an extraordinary gesture. I haven’t seen this posted and wondered why people have not responded. Did I miss it?

nytimes.com/2017/06/13/nyregion/catholic-church-gays-mass-newark-cathedral.html

Heresy.

This really tells it all -

He teared up, remembering how his parents had died thinking he would go to hell if he found someone to love. “This is amazing to me,” he said.

So it’s not just about people, but acts too, it’s not just about going to Mass, but receiving communion too. And no doubt they have the same view with adulterous relationships.

The formers are correct (They are welcome, and they can go to Mass, Sodomy is a real sin though, marriage is between a man and a woman until death do they part and if one is not repentant of sin, or are in protest of Church teaching, they should not receive communion), the latters are heresy and sacrilege.

The corruption of the best is the worst.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

Today in the Catholic Church, we read a passage that says you have to be able to give a reason for your hope. And I’m praying that this pilgrimage for them, and really for the whole church, is a reason for hope.”

That’s a huge twist in what that passage is about, hope in what? It’s not hope in a secular movement that is often pitted against Christ and His teachings on marriage and the family.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

This is like welcoming a modern day feminist movement, but not saying anything about the crime of abortion, when people are wearing PP shirts and are supporters and advocates of abortion and contraception, it’s scandalous to say the least, heresy if they secretly support such things and sacrilege if they receive communion while doing so.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

“Pretty much everyone’s lifestyle is sinful,” Father Martin said. “Unless the Blessed Mother shows up in the communion line, there is no one sinless in our church.”

:dts: Heresy.

The difference is one is repentant, the other is not.

 

[gracepoole]

:dts: Heresy.

The difference is one is repentant, the other is not.

Yet there’s no way to know who in a normal communion line hasn’t repented of his or her sins.

 

[reggieM]

God will be vindicated. We need to keep praying that it will be sooner, not later.
I’ve seen some high-ranking prelates around here doing similar things in years past - flaunting disobedience to sacred teaching.
Every one of them paid a big, big price.
Oh yes, they went way up in popularity for a while. But not for long.
They eventually came way, way down.
The same thing will happen here.

 

[reggieM]

Yet there’s no way to know who in a normal communion line hasn’t repented of his or her sins.

If you see two guys with wedding rings, holding hands (as apparently were present at this particular Mass), then there’s a public scandal taking place.
Repentance is not merely saying “I’m sorry”. There has to be a sincere effort made to turn away from sin.

 

[gracepoole]

If you see two guys with wedding rings, holding hands (as apparently were present at this particular Mass), then there’s a public scandal taking place.
Repentance is not merely saying “I’m sorry”. There has to be a sincere effort made to turn away from sin.

Go back and reread the posts before mine, as well as my own which referred to a “normal communion line.” Clearly what took place in this church wouldn’t constitute a “normal communion line.”

 

[reggieM]

Go back and reread the posts before mine, as well as my own which referred to a “normal communion line.” Clearly what took place in this church wouldn’t constitute a “normal communion line.”

Ok, sorry - I didn’t read what came before.

 

[josh987654321]

Yet there’s no way to know who in a normal communion line hasn’t repented of his or her sins.

That is why, for starters they shouldn’t be pandering to particular groups that contain a huge range of elements among which are in opposition to Church teaching such as abortion and same sex marriage. But rather sticking to Church teaching, which teaches that all are welcomed and treated with dignity and respect, but that marriage is between a man and a woman until death do they part and sodomy, as well as masturbation, promiscuity and fornication etc are all sins.

If they pitched it to the feminist movement, that likewise would be just as heretical and scandalous since abortion and contraception are against Church teaching, yet are heavily linked with modern feminist movements.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

If you see two guys with wedding rings, holding hands (as apparently were present at this particular Mass), then there’s a public scandal taking place.

It’s like communion for the divorced and remarried, if they are wearing wedding rings and are basically husband and wife, they hardly believe that they are still married to their original spouse in the Churches eyes, they hardly believe that when they first said ‘till death do us part’ that they are still tied by that vow.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh