'As God is my Judge'

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

NoelFitz

New member
Greetings.
I had accepted that God will be our judge after death. But recently I am more convinced (as in the Nicene Creed) that Jesus will be the judge.
The persons of the Tinity are distinct and the Father is not the Son, so it is no answer to say that we cannot say which judges as God is one.
Most scriptural passages seem to imply the Son is the judge, but we often see the Father as the stern judge, while Jesus is our loving brother.
Please help.
 
NoelFitz said:
Greetings.
I had accepted that God will be our judge after death. But recently I am more convinced (as in the Nicene Creed) that Jesus will be the judge.
The persons of the Tinity are distinct and the Father is not the Son, so it is no answer to say that we cannot say which judges as God is one.
Most scriptural passages seem to imply the Son is the judge, but we often see the Father as the stern judge, while Jesus is our loving brother.
Please help.
Click to expand...
Jesus said the following about Himself

Jn 5:19
the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Jn 6:
38* For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;

Jn 8:29
The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

Jn 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Jn 12:50
whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

Jn 14:10
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Jn 14:31
I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

AND

as for judging,

Peter and Paul taught

2 Timothy 4:1
Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead

1 Peter 4:5
but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead .

Therefore,

When Jesus judges, it’s from the Father.

AND

Jesus is also our brother as well
 
Last edited:
If God was all stern and mean, why would He love us enough to send us His son?

Jesus and Father God aren’t some kind of good cop/ bad cop. They are one with each other and the Holy Spirit.

God, the one God, does the judging.
 
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”
- Matthew 7:21-23

Let’s break down this section for a bit. The word ‘Lord’ in the Greek is κύριος which transliterates to Kurios (kü’-rē-os) meaning directly a possessor or one with power. The Biblical use of the word has multiple meanings:
  • When Jesus is called ‘sir’ this is the same Kurios
  • A master (owner) of property is the same Kurios
  • Husbands in the Bible are refered to as master, this is the same Kurios
  • It can also signify an idol, a god, looks at 1 Cor. 8:5. → “For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’”. This reference to gods and lords uses the same Kurios
  • Lord is also substituted for ‘Yahweh’ in many translations, this once again is another use of Kurios
  • Jesus being fully human and fully divine, his divinity as a master, a lord is Kurios but his title as being fully human, sir, is also Kurios
Knowing these different meanings of ‘Lord’ we must ask ourselves who is Lord Lord referring to and how. The meaning here is two-fold. People are referring to Jesus as the expression goes: Lord and Savior. Lord in the term ‘sir’ of human respect but also Lord as in ‘master’ out of divine respect. So the point of all this is, Jesus is absolutely involved in the judgement.

Looks like my nerdy side has made itself known 🤓🤭
 
Last edited:
Two other verses for you to consider that have the same meaning as Matthew 7:21-23 :

”For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
- 2 Corinthians 5:10

”When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.”
- Matthew 25:31-32
 
Last edited:
Despite your overthinking this I’m most troubled by your use of the word “stern” to describe a person of the trinity. As If Jesus is merciful but the father is not. That’s kind of odd.
 
I know that it’ll be Jesus as the judge and He will judge us by our works.
 
I also was a bit troubled by this. Let’s look at arguably the most well-known verse in the entire Bible:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”
- John 3:16
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the much -appreciated replies. But my query is not clearly answered.

Very often the Catholic Church is a both/and Church, while Protestants ore either/or. So perhaps Catholics could reply correctly claiming the Father or the Son will judge.

Steve-b: You seem to claim Jesus does what the Father wants, implying (perhaps) he is inferior to the Father. You do not focus on my query.

Angel: it matters, just as if there is a God and a Trinity matters.

Tis-Bearself: You clearly claim God is the judge, but do you mean the Father or the Son? They are distinct.

GospelofMatthew (1): You do not clearly state a conclusion, only a vague claim that Jesus is involved.

GospelofMatthew (2): You clearly assert that the Son, not the Father, will judge. This to me seems to correspond with Catholic teaching,
 
@NoelFitz
NoelFitz said:
but we often see the Father as the stern judge,
Click to expand...
Yes right in a ways ,we know the Father is a stern Judge in other words God’s Divine Justice,The Father was also merciful so he immediately promised salvation in Gen 3:15 Mother Mary -Jesus, In the OT ,we know what happened, How the Father judged the world and chastised the humans in the Great Flood because of the sins.in John 5:22 The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, the Heavenly Father has entrusted the judgement to the son that’s why when we die the personal judgement is done by Jesus and not the Father or the Holy Spirit.

and yes you nicely mentioned Jesus is our loving brother ,well this mercy is till the last breath after death Jesus will be our Divine Judge,one of the attributes of God is Divine Justice ,and we have to be accountable for our sins ,hear too ,we have our spiritual Mother to intercede for us to the Father and the Son ,more of less in our favor like an defense lawyer or advocate as we have in the litany ,she pleads on our behalf and remind Jesus the good works and other graces and merits which Jesus has allowed us to gain by his Grace and add her own to that of our’s.Lets hope for the best the judgement would be of mercy as we see our sins through the eyes of Jesus.

well again the at the end of the world at the general judgement here again the heavenly Father chastise, corrects , and punishes ,but the final victory and judge will be again Jesus 1 Peter 3:22 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers made subject to him. Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name,10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend,in heaven and on earth and under the earth,11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,to the glory of God the Father. Colossians 1:15 -20

am sorry for my poor explanations and understanding ,but still hope you get some idea .God Bless
 
NoelFitz said:
Tis-Bearself: You clearly claim God is the judge, but do you mean the Father or the Son? They are distinct.
Click to expand...
Three Persons, One God.

I mean God in All Three Persons is the Judge. The Three Persons of God judge us together just as they hear our prayers together.

Edited as I initially misread the post, sorry.
 
Last edited:
As you say, most evidence states that it will be the Son, and specifically Jesus (the Son with His human nature from the Incarnation), who does the judging.

But since the Persons of the Trinity share the one divine will, and the human will of Jesus always aligns with the divine will (even in cases, like Gethsemane, where Jesus in His humanity briefly wishes the divine will were otherwise), there doesn’t seem to be much of a practical difference. The judgment will be the one that God (the Trinity) has made in perfect justice and mercy. Despite our anthropomorphized images, we don’t actually have Jesus holding back the wrathful hand of the Father (or Mary holding back the wrathful hand of Jesus, in the particularly Catholic variant).
 
Tis-Bearself,

you wrote ‘I mean God in All Three Persons is the Judge’. Does this differ from traditional Catholic teaching where Jesus will judge us?

Usagi,

again you seem to claim that God (the Trinity) will be the judge, not Jesus.

Am I correct in thinking, since God is one, all divine acts are due to the Trinity, but Catholics assign specific acts to specific person, considering the Father as the creator, Jesus as the Savio(u)r, and the Holy Spirit as the sanctifier?
 
Last edited:
NoelFitz said:
Usagi,

again you seem to claim that God (the Trinity) will be the judge, not Jesus
Click to expand...
I actually said the opposite. If the imagery of the Judgment in Scripture is literal, with all of us standing before the judgment seat, I expect it will be Jesus visibly sitting on the throne. But the decision would not be any different if it were made by any person of the Trinity or all of them, because they have one divine wil between them.
 
Read the CCC “Creed Part” that mentions the part where it says, “He will come…”.
 
Don’t quote many things said by Jesus in the Gospel to prove that he is inferior or subordinate to father.Because most of the things he said was as the human incarnation of God.That is more as man than God.But he has choose to reveal
at certain places unmistakeably who he is to dispel any doubt.I and father are same;those who see me see my father etc…In the Revelation Jesus appears in full power and glory exercising God’s wrath and rule without any indication as acting under the orders of some body.
In short but for the short period he was here as man and God,he is one and the same as father,son and holy spirit,a great mystery we may not fully understand…
 
IMHO: Jesus said, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.” The impure will never see the Face of God, only the righteous.
God the Father has given judgement into the hands of his son.

This is a curious verse In I Corinthians chapter 3: “Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels?”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top