As Occult, New Age Practices Increase, so Does Need for Exorcists

  • Thread starter Thread starter edwest2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
As the scientific method explains away ghosts, goblins, ghouls and witchcraft, the need for exorcists drops exponentially.
 
True, but not even the scientific method is correct in all cases.
 
Evil spirits are very real and tangible in their effects, and we cannot allow atheism or science to tell us otherwise.
 
As the scientific method explains away ghosts, goblins, ghouls and witchcraft, the need for exorcists drops exponentially.
If these scientists were able to view an exorcism firsthand, they would not be so sure about their explinations…
 
If these scientists were able to view an exorcism firsthand, they would not be so sure about their explinations…
Well, science has sure done a good job with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. Exorcism was once far more common, and used erroneously all the time…

The curious thing to me about these kinds of conversations is this: exorcism is the far more “supernatural” or “mystical” practice while science deals with the world in accordance with the way God made it, with the way God made the human mind. So I find it confusing that we are so drawn towards this type of practice as opposed to scientific inquiry, especially when scientific inquiry had improved by leaps and bounds whereas exorcism has, so far as I can tell, gotten no better in thousands of years.
 
Well, science has sure done a good job with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. Exorcism was once far more common, and used erroneously all the time…

The curious thing to me about these kinds of conversations is this: exorcism is the far more “supernatural” or “mystical” practice while science deals with the world in accordance with the way God made it, with the way God made the human mind. So I find it confusing that we are so drawn towards this type of practice as opposed to scientific inquiry, especially when scientific inquiry had improved by leaps and bounds whereas exorcism has, so far as I can tell, gotten no better in thousands of years.
Mental illness is not the same as possession. A person can be mentally ill and possessed, or mentally ill and not posessed. Maybe you don’t believe that the devil is real and that he can do certain things to people. 🤷
 
Mental illness is not the same as possession.
In the past, many of the diseases that we now call mental illness and treat with science were called possession and treated with exorcisms of various types.

Thus I am not convinced that they are not the same thing, to a great extent.

The problem I see here is this: what is the method by which we can ‘validate’ a possession?

And if there is no factual method for doing so, then how are we to determine that mental illness and possession are not the same thing? Perhaps a particular possession/mental illness is currently unknown. but will be discovered and described in the future as have many of the other types of possession/mental illness.
Maybe you don’t believe that the devil is real and that he can do certain things to people. 🤷
Really, whether I “believe” in the Devil or not is of no consequence to the world. He either exists (in some form or another), or He does not. And so it makes no difference whether I “believe” in Him.

What is of import, in my opinion, is that His handiwork (or the handiwork ascribed to Him) has been taking a good licking from science. We are totally dominating Him.
 
It is also true that Jesus and His Disciples frequently cast out demons by the power of God. Jesus surely believed that evil spirits were real and surely believed that they could possess human beings. So I don’t understand the denial that it could all be chalked up to mental illness. Clearly, mental illness is a thing, and more common than evil spirits - that can freely be admitted. But to speculate that science will wipe out the profession of exorcist or the phenomenon of possession is like speculating that science will wipe out the existence of the Holy Trinity or the Perpetual Virginity of Mary… not going to happen.

And I must certainly doubt your good intentions when you capitalize a pronoun when referring to Satan, which is typically done in English for God alone.
 
And I must certainly doubt your good intentions when you capitalize a pronoun when referring to Satan, which is typically done in English for God alone.
I apologize for that. That’s what I was taught to do (and to capitalize Him/Her/His/Hers for the names of the angels and prophets as well.) I’ve mostly stopped doing that nowadays, but it still happens from time to time. On occasion, I still accidentally write Him undercase for God because I’ve been trying to stop doing it for Moses and Abraham… lol.

While I will certainly admit to being a free thinker, probably not in line with the Church at the end of the day… still, I seriously hope you’re not accusing me of being involved in a secret Satanic plot that includes posting thousands of times on a Catholic forum while staying just under the radar.

I would like to continue the conversation, so long as there are no more subtle suggestions that I’m a Satanist.

These terms being pleasing, I will respond to the rest of your post after I get some sleep. It’s very late here. Thanks.
 
In the past, many of the diseases that we now call mental illness and treat with science were called possession and treated with exorcisms of various types.

Thus I am not convinced that they are not the same thing, to a great extent.

The problem I see here is this: what is the method by which we can ‘validate’ a possession?

And if there is no factual method for doing so, then how are we to determine that mental illness and possession are not the same thing? Perhaps a particular possession/mental illness is currently unknown. but will be discovered and described in the future as have many of the other types of possession/mental illness.

Really, whether I “believe” in the Devil or not is of no consequence to the world. He either exists (in some form or another), or He does not. And so it makes no difference whether I “believe” in Him.

What is of import, in my opinion, is that His handiwork (or the handiwork ascribed to Him) has been taking a good licking from science. We are totally dominating Him.
So are you saying Jesus was just superstitious?
 
Let’s exchange countries. You come here and I come to the US. After a year of attending churches with ministers specializing in deliverance I DARE you to say that demons are just illnesses. Demons can cause symptoms of illnesses or harass a person till he doubts his sanity, and not all persons are actually ill, though many are,
 
Well, science has sure done a good job with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. Exorcism was once far more common, and used erroneously all the time…

The curious thing to me about these kinds of conversations is this: exorcism is the far more “supernatural” or “mystical” practice while science deals with the world in accordance with the way God made it, with the way God made the human mind. So I find it confusing that we are so drawn towards this type of practice as opposed to scientific inquiry, especially when scientific inquiry had improved by leaps and bounds whereas exorcism has, so far as I can tell, gotten no better in thousands of years.
Dear VeritasLuxMea,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well.

Whilst it is certainly quite true that with the advance of knowledge regarding psychological and emotional disturbances, many strange occurences once attributed to demonic activity are now known to have other possible natural explanations, we should not discount the possibility and reality of diabolical possession as Holy Mother Church does not (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 1673). Unfortunately, dear friend, the modern world ignores or belitttles or even denies dread power and activity of the devil and that is why it greatly favours the machinations of that cruel and malignant foe. The devil and his minions, though blasted by the wrath of God and hurled down from their supernatural estate, retain, notwithstanding, the mighty faculties which they received at their creation, thus continuing to make them the most dangerous of adversaries. Sacred Scripture informs us as to just how formidable is their hostility when it warns that "we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the pricipalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness, and that “the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour” (Eph. 6: 12; I Pet 5: 8). Pope Paul VI described the Devil as “an effective agent, a living, spiritual being, perverted and perverting. A terrible reality. Mysterious and frightening” (General Audience, 15 Nov. 1972).

In his excellent book, An Exorcist Tells His Story, (Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 1999), Father Gabriel Amorth warns that modern men are loosing their sense of the reality of supeprnatural evil. As a result, Father says, many have made themselves more vulnerable to the influence of evil spirits who seek to corrupt and to destroy souls. An exorcist of the diocese of Rome, Father Amorth knows only too well the reality of demonic possession and, indeed, has carried out thousands of exorcisms. Interestingly, he remarks that cultural influences such as film, television, music and books play no small part in lowering spiritual vigilance, but that is another story.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
In the past, many of the diseases that we now call mental illness and treat with science were called possession and treated with exorcisms of various types.

Thus I am not convinced that they are not the same thing, to a great extent.

The problem I see here is this: what is the method by which we can ‘validate’ a possession?

And if there is no factual method for doing so, then how are we to determine that mental illness and possession are not the same thing? Perhaps a particular possession/mental illness is currently unknown. but will be discovered and described in the future as have many of the other types of possession/mental illness.
Dear VeritasLuxMea,

Hello again.

There are, dear friend, certain signs of demonic possession that are generally recognized. Among others may be listed: speaking in tongues (i.e. speaking or understanding languages unknown to the person); showing knowledge of distant or hidden things, exhibiting disturbances by what seems to be an alien personality at times inhabiting or taking over the body (not the soul) and its organs; behaviour that is inexplicable to the science of psychiatry, coupled with a failure of all medical and psychiatric treatmens; violent reaction to an exorcism. Moreover, an effective exorcism is considered by some theologians as perhaps the only sure and certain proof of authentic diabolical possession. Mental health problems and diabolical possession are decidedly not the same thing; “Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness” (CCC, para. 1673).

It should be noted, dear friend, that Satan cannot, even in the case of possession, compel anyone to commit sin. He may force his victim to do many things that are in themselves sinful, but he cannot force him to approve of them. A demon my take possession of the body, but never of the* soul* of man, for God has placed man’s faculty of free-will completely beyond the reach of evil spirits. If we misuse it, then clearly the fault is ours alone.

Demonic possession can usually be traced back to some dabbling in the occult (e.g. a seance, or use of a ouija board). Not without reason, therefore, our Church admonishes all men, be they Christians or not, to have nothing whatsoever to do with seances, fortune telling or the occult in any form. The occultic subculture is a clear and present danger and ought to be given a very wide berth indeed.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
It is also true that Jesus and His Disciples frequently cast out demons by the power of God. Jesus surely believed that evil spirits were real and surely believed that they could possess human beings. So I don’t understand the denial that it could all be chalked up to mental illness. Clearly, mental illness is a thing, and more common than evil spirits - that can freely be admitted. But to speculate that science will wipe out the profession of exorcist or the phenomenon of possession is like speculating that science will wipe out the existence of the Holy Trinity or the Perpetual Virginity of Mary… not going to happen.

And I must certainly doubt your good intentions when you capitalize a pronoun when referring to Satan, which is typically done in English for God alone.
Dear Elizium23,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said and of one thing we can be sure of is that science will never eliminate the presence of evil in this fallen world.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
In the past, many of the diseases that we now call mental illness and treat with science were called possession and treated with exorcisms of various types.

The problem I see here is this: what is the method by which we can ‘validate’ a possession?

And if there is no factual method for doing so, then how are we to determine that mental illness and possession are not the same thing? Perhaps a particular possession/mental illness is currently unknown. but will be discovered and described in the future as have many of the other types of possession/mental illness.

Really, whether I “believe” in the Devil or not is of no consequence to the world. He either exists (in some form or another), or He does not. And so it makes no difference whether I “believe” in Him.

What is of import, in my opinion, is that His handiwork (or the handiwork ascribed to Him) has been taking a good licking from science. We are totally dominating Him.
Yes, in the past many cases of mental illness were attributed to demonic possession. However, some cases of demonic possession are real and not mental illness. That brings to the point no.2. Exorcists do have a method of establishing whether the case they face is genuine. Maybe you could read up on this.

The existence of the devil is not something we may choose not to believe in. The church teaches it. You really should believe in him (no capital letter here since he is not God) and it does make a difference if you do. Spiritual warfare is real so not believing in it makes you pretty vulnerable.

Do you believe that science can explain everything? Because that is pretty naive and not a Catholic view. Jesus taught that the devil is real. The church teaches that the devil is real. Do you have your own religion that excludes this embarrasing element?
 
Yes, in the past many cases of mental illness were attributed to demonic possession. However, some cases of demonic possession are real and not mental illness. That brings to the point no.2. Exorcists do have a method of establishing whether the case they face is genuine. Maybe you could read up on this.

The existence of the devil is not something we may choose not to believe in. The church teaches it. You really should believe in him (no capital letter here since he is not God) and it does make a difference if you do. Spiritual warfare is real so not believing in it makes you pretty vulnerable.

Do you believe that science can explain everything? Because that is pretty naive and not a Catholic view. Jesus taught that the devil is real. The church teaches that the devil is real. Do you have your own religion that excludes this embarrasing element?
Yes, they do.
I recall watching a show about exorcism. The exorcist would first let the person have a psychiatric evaluation to know if the person has mental problems or is under demonic attack.
 
Belief that there is an objectively evil being, which we call the devil, is de fide in the Catholic Church. The devil and demons are widely mentioned in the New Testament as well as the Old. All Catholics are required to understand this, to fight evil, and in fact this is reflected in our baptismal promise.

Since there is this objectively evil force, or spirit, then clearly it manifests itself in the world of men, and sometimes possesses men utterly. The most insidious aspect of the devil is his ability to convince people that he does not exist, that morality is relative, that absolute morality does not exist. We must also fight against the teachings of New Age heresy within the Church itself, which would have us believe that the devil is really just some necessary opposite force to God, a la mystical dualism. Satan is a fallen angel and a created being, in no way equivalent to God in power, majesty, presence or knowledge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top