As Promised...

[Singinbeauty]

Killing is murder. the bible makes it clear that murder is a sin.

You ask a Catholic this?

You asked me where the hate is that we need to stop… This was one of my answers. You can’t say that catholics have not, in the past or even the present, killed protestants for their beliefs. Just look at Ireland. I think you just don’t want to see what I have to say because that would mean agreeing with a protestant… *sigh And as a disclaimer I know that protestants have done the same. I put them in the same category of needing to put down the weapons and open up to unity just the same.

No. Rejecting Christ’s Church is a rejection of Christ. I wish I could say it is not but, I cant. Fortunately, The Lord is merciful to the seperated.

I do not reject His Church… His Church is the body of believers. Since I don’t reject His Church I don’t reject Him. I Love and Follow Christ with every inch of my soul. To say anything different is a horrible accusation and not very charitable I might add. But again, this is between you and God.

I dont know?
This does not apply to Catholics.

WHAT??? Catholics are accused of worshipping dead people all the time! Maybe you just haven’t had this experience…

Catholics are falsely accused of many things by the heretic and schimatic Christians.

So when someone accuses catholics of worshipping dead people and that they are led by Satan you don’t see this as a form of hate? I think you are blind.

 

[Singinbeauty]

To paraphrase Ghandi he said," It is not the Christ of Christianity that I don’t admire. It is the Christians. They are not like their Christ."

It’s so sad… there are many who have turned away from Christianity just because of the bickering amoung Christians…

 

[teachccd]

It’s so sad… there are many who have turned away from Christianity just because of the bickering amoung Christians…

One Man hung on a Cross and for the last 500 years (not including the many heretical groups centuries before) we argue about who He is. Why don’t we all gather at the foot of that Cross and just stare into His eyes for a minute. I bet we would all see the same Christ and that one tear that fell when He knew that after we went home we would divide and argue. One Man, one Gospel, one message…thousands of splintered Christian groups all searching for that one message and ripping apart the Body of Christ in the process…How absolutely and incredibly sad…In Christ…teachccd…

 

[Zooey]

I guess the reason for this thread is this…

What should we do, as a group who wants to see this happen (so for those of you who do NOT want to see it happen please do not respond), WHAT do we do? How do we begin the chain of bringing catholics and protestants together for Christ?

I suggest that we work together on things that we DO agree on, such as the pro-life movement, defence of traditional marriage and family values and outreach to the poor.

For instance, there is an ecumenical mission meal for the poor that I volunteer with. It is held at a Methodist church in my neighbourhood. The volunteers that help out are Methodist, Catholic (from my church), Lutheran and Presbyterian.

There are also pro-life activities that are ecumenical. A local non-denominational church had speakers in the pro-life movement. There was an advertisement in my church’s bulletin. When a neighbouring Catholic church had a pro-life seminar, they advertised it in the non-denominational church’s bulletin.

There are also ecumenical prayer services held at various churches in my neighbourhood. They rotate between Catholic and Protestant churches. My church had the service, then the Methodist church had it. There are about 10 churches that participate. The choirs from all the churches get together and they all sing during the service. My pastor gave the sermon at the Methodist church. A Presbyterian pastor gave the sermon at my church. After the service, there is a reception where everybody from all the different churches can fellowship. The placemats on the tables had different versions of Grace before meals: there was a Catholic, Protestant and Jewish version printed. I took a placemat home and saved it because I liked the different versions of the prayer.

We have wonderful union services between many area churches, both in Lent & Advent. We meet Sunday afternoon or evening, and during the week.They have been a great way to get to know one another better…and knowledge can be key.

 

[St_Violet]

you know singin, The Catholic Church has been praying for unity for years and haven’t given up hope. But I believe the problem is that Protestantism cannot come to an agreement of the bible which has caused division and sadly hatred even amongst themselves and catholics. I wish i lived in the middle ages before the reformation where there was no denominations and only unity under the Catholic Church. I believe the only time protestants will put down their weapons you speak of, is when they all decide to put down sola scriptura ( Luther’s Bible only theory), for Sola scriptura is what caused war amongst christians.

BTW i see your from WA tacoma, your not to far from me I’m in thurston county, WA REPRESENT!!

 

[Fidelis]

Take a look at your responses throughout this thread, SB. Do you not find that you are spending more of your time responding to, clarifying and --yes – defending your words to those you believe are misrepresenting you?

It is the same with Catholics, or anyone else who is maligned and misunderstood. Just as you don’t feel free to just not respond and “turn the other cheek,” neither do Catholics when the Faith once delivered unto the saints is maligned and misrepresented.

If the attacks would stop, we’d have time to talk about other, more positive things.

 

[mark_a]

You’re the only other person besides me who thinks that… Everyone else thinks I’m weird for saying it. Good for you, though…

I’m in.

 

[Cat]

As I see it, singinbeauty, you are talking about getting along in two different “venues.”

REAL LIFE

In REAL LIFE, not online, there are certainly individual friendships between Catholic and Protestants that PROVE that we can get along. This is what I recommend for you, if you don’t already have a Catholic friend(s).

There are also group efforts, as some have already mentioned, in which Catholic and Protestant groups come together to work for a common cause, like pro-life efforts, soup kitchens, natural disasters, etc. I also recommend that you get involved with one of these to encourage yourself that we can, indeed, get along.

I’m not sure what else you expect from Catholics and Protestants in the “real world.” Our lives do not run along the same tracks. We have our own churches. It is not likely that most Protestants are going to start attending Masses, is it? Or that Catholics will start attending Protestant services, although I know Catholics who attend Protestant Praise and Worship services because they love the music and fellowship.

Surely you don’t expect this kind of “getting together?” It’s not practical. Perhaps for a once-a-year prayer service, as happened in our city a few weeks ago on the National Day of Prayer. Our Catholic church bulletin was filled with announcements urging Catholics to participate, and our pastor spoke about it in his sermon.

But this will not happen very often because of practical reasons. We have our own lives, our own churches, our own ministries. And we have our own beliefs. If you don’t believe in True Presence in the Eucharist, would you want to sit week after week and watch others bow to a “cracker?” And Catholics don’t like to be in worship services where there is no Jesus other than in the people.

This is my suggestion: All of us could make a commitment that if we hear “bashing” against the other group in our own church, that we should SPEAK UP and correct any falsehoods that are spoken, as well as condemn the factiousness.

However, I can tell you from bitter past experience that you simply don’t defend Catholicism in many Protestant churches, because YOU will be held under suspicion and possibly shunned.

Try it and see for yourself. The Christian and Missionary Alliance pastor that we loved so much had just one thing only to say about Catholics: “They murder Protestant missionaries and I’ll have nothing to do with them. They’re of the devil.”

It’s kind of hard to go up against that kind of attitude from a pastor and come out of it with your reputation, friends, and church membership intact.

ONLINE

This a different venue than “REAL LIFE.”

I think that what’s needed is civility and good manners, and this is really difficult to do online sometimes.

We wouldn’t be here if we didn’t enjoy writing.

Often, we are wannabe authors who get caught up in practicing our own incredible powers of “writing!” We want to amaze people with our witticisms and sarcastic come-backs.

Instead, we end up spewing hate.

I admit to this weakness in myself.

People come to this Board with different goals. I believe that there are Protestants who come here only with the goal of “converting all those non-Christian Catholics.”

To me, that’s just rude. It’s like going to someone else’s house and cleaning it up for them. No wonder Catholics get upset. There should be a separate section of the Board for “Protestants who are determined to convert Catholics to “real” Christianity!” Then we could go THERE for our big fights! And people who don’t want the fights can stay away.

There are Protestants who come here to learn, either because they just want to be more informed, or because they are considered converting. Sometimes they are belligerent because all their cherished beliefs are falling apart and they’re scared and so they lash out, like a frightened kitty cat.

I thnk a lot of Catholics also come to this Board to learn. That’s my main goal. Until a few days ago, I knew NOTHING about SSPX and some of the other traditionalist groups of Catholicism. Now I have a whole list of arguments and some resources.

I admit that I also come here because I am a convert, and I hope that some of my knowledge and experience with evangelical Christianity will be of use to Catholics who are asking questions.

So my suggestion, besides make a separate section for “Protestant evangelists”, is that we should all try to remember that the others are real people, and that we should try use restraint in our adjectives. We need to learn to write "softly."

 

[Mannyfit75]

I do think the issue of understanding needs to be addressed. We can’t force each other which doctrines is correct and incorrect. Most of the Catholic Church’s deposit of faith cannot change regardless to what Protestant objectors say.

Doctrines such as the Pertual Virginity of Mary, that is that she is a virgin before and after the birth of Jesus, Papacy, Magisterial Authority, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, Purgatory, Communion of Saints, Apostolic Succession, Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament, Immaculate Conception, the Assumption.

Moral issues cannot even change like homosexual acts is always grave mortal sin, fornication, adultery, divorce, prostitution, pornography, mastubation, contraception, embyronic stem cell research, cloning, euthanasia, death penalty, etc.

On the issue of ordination of women, the Church has no authority it allow it; since the Catholic priesthood is modelled after Jesus Christ who is Male and the High Priest. He wasn’t a woman. The Word became Flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ.

 

[Singinbeauty]

you know singin, The Catholic Church has been praying for unity for years and haven’t given up hope. But I believe the problem is that Protestantism cannot come to an agreement of the bible which has caused division and sadly hatred even amongst themselves and catholics. I wish i lived in the middle ages before the reformation where there was no denominations and only unity under the Catholic Church. I believe the only time protestants will put down their weapons you speak of, is when they all decide to put down sola scriptura ( Luther’s Bible only theory), for Sola scriptura is what caused war amongst christians.

The problem is that it is not only the protestants that have the weapons. BOTH sides need to put them down in order for there to be a peace between us so that we can work together. And I totally think it’s possible.

BTW i see your from WA tacoma, your not to far from me I’m in thurston county, WA REPRESENT!!

Sweet!

 

[Singinbeauty]

Take a look at your responses throughout this thread, SB. Do you not find that you are spending more of your time responding to, clarifying and --yes – defending your words to those you believe are misrepresenting you?

It is the same with Catholics, or anyone else who is maligned and misunderstood. Just as you don’t feel free to just not respond and “turn the other cheek,” neither do Catholics when the Faith once delivered unto the saints is maligned and misrepresented.

If the attacks would stop, we’d have time to talk about other, more positive things.

Truly, but I am not saying to ‘not respond’. What I am saying is that we need to find BETTER ways of how to respond. To let someone else get us all riled up just isn’t healthy and it’s not productive.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I do think the issue of understanding needs to be addressed. We can’t force each other which doctrines is correct and incorrect. Most of the Catholic Church’s deposit of faith cannot change regardless to what Protestant objectors say.

Doctrines such as the Pertual Virginity of Mary, that is that she is a virgin before and after the birth of Jesus, Papacy, Magisterial Authority, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, Purgatory, Communion of Saints, Apostolic Succession, Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament, Immaculate Conception, the Assumption.

Moral issues cannot even change like homosexual acts is always grave mortal sin, fornication, adultery, divorce, prostitution, pornography, mastubation, contraception, embyronic stem cell research, cloning, euthanasia, death penalty, etc.

On the issue of ordination of women, the Church has no authority it allow it; since the Catholic priesthood is modelled after Jesus Christ who is Male and the High Priest. He wasn’t a woman. The Word became Flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ.

But see Manny, I think you miss my point. I am not saying we need to necessarily find unity within our doctrines because I agree that that probably won’t be happening anytime soon. What I AM saying is that there has to be a way we can almost agree to disagree and put the focus back on Christ so that this world can see how wonderful He is and not how His children bicker about who Daddy loves best…

 

[Singinbeauty]

Goodness look at that… we are tied in the poll between the yes’s and no’s… Wow… it really shows how some are willing to try and others have already given up…

 

[Singinbeauty]

We have wonderful union services between many area churches, both in Lent & Advent. We meet Sunday afternoon or evening, and during the week.They have been a great way to get to know one another better…and knowledge can be key.

That’s awesome Zooey… What we need is much more of this!

 

[teachccd]

Catholics and Protestants will come together in heaven where protesting is prohibited… Heck, families can’t even agree on what they want for dinner. As long as we are human we will divide ourselves. This question will only be resolved in heaven. Just as we cannot remove our souls from our bodies before we die we will never remove our pride from our thoughts…How many of us preach the Gospel out of pure love for God and not with a “I want to be right” attitude?? Some may but it is rare as I speak also for myself …teachccd

 

[mozart-250]

I suggest that we work together on things that we DO agree on, such as the pro-life movement, defence of traditional marriage and family values and outreach to the poor.

For instance, there is an ecumenical mission meal for the poor that I volunteer with. It is held at a Methodist church in my neighbourhood. The volunteers that help out are Methodist, Catholic (from my church), Lutheran and Presbyterian.

There are also pro-life activities that are ecumenical. A local non-denominational church had speakers in the pro-life movement. There was an advertisement in my church’s bulletin. When a neighbouring Catholic church had a pro-life seminar, they advertised it in the non-denominational church’s bulletin.

There are also ecumenical prayer services held at various churches in my neighbourhood. They rotate between Catholic and Protestant churches. My church had the service, then the Methodist church had it. There are about 10 churches that participate. The choirs from all the churches get together and they all sing during the service. My pastor gave the sermon at the Methodist church. A Presbyterian pastor gave the sermon at my church. After the service, there is a reception where everybody from all the different churches can fellowship. The placemats on the tables had different versions of Grace before meals: there was a Catholic, Protestant and Jewish version printed. I took a placemat home and saved it because I liked the different versions of the prayer.

Maybe the internet is not the same as real life.

That’s the way that it is up my neck of the woods.

I really don’t see either the anti-Catholicism or the anti-Protestantism in real life that some folks whine about.

For example I go to an Assembly of God church that has been portrayed here sometimes as a rabidly fanatic anti-Catholic fundamentalist sect. But I have not seen anything of that coming from my church at least. If you were to visit our web site and read my pastors sermons through the years, if Catholics and Catholicism are mentioned it is in a positive light.

Maybe my state is the “land of the liberals” and we are weird. I dunno.

 

[Mannyfit75]

But see Manny, I think you miss my point. I am not saying we need to necessarily find unity within our doctrines because I agree that that probably won’t be happening anytime soon. What I AM saying is that there has to be a way we can almost agree to disagree and put the focus back on Christ so that this world can see how wonderful He is and not how His children bicker about who Daddy loves best…

In another thread called, “Common Ground.” I did discuss about looking at core doctrinal issues, which unites both Catholic and Protestants. Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the belief in the Trinity.

I dislike the bickering myself, and desire so much for ecumenical unity.

In most cases, when questions arises about why Catholics do this, there is always a objector, who disagree. mainly from Protestants. The thing is all Catholic doctrine is centered on one Word. The Word is Jesus Christ.

In the internet especially in this forum, I do noticed it. However, with the people whom I get in contact with who are not Catholic are very open and understanding.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

So in your opinion the catechism is wrong in saying that protestants are separated bretheren? You believe we totally have it wrong and will not make it to Heaven… Do I have this right?

no you don’t have it right. I said nothing about you not being separated brethren or not going to Heaven. But I do not believe the separation can be healed without total compromise of either of our beliefs.

The Catholic Church does not say you will not go to Heaven, in fact it says if you are sincerely worshipping God as you see fit and die without mortal sin you WILL be in Heaven.

But I do not believe you have the fullness of the Truth right now, if I did–I would be a Protestant!

Why do people insist on getting offended if someone else has a conviction that is contrary to their own? I am not offended by your beliefs, but they are not mine. I do get offended by bad attitudes–regardless of what religion the person claims.

Ravyn

 

[Vigis]

Very interesting thread. I have just finished reading through the whole things. I think it to be entirely possible for Protestants and Catholics to come together in peace. My hopes have been severely tested though.

I have recently been banned from a Protestant webforum. They claimed to welcome Catholics. Only a few did. The leaders of the forum entirely persecuted my faith. Called the Church a big sect, the Whore of Babylon, and many other things. What even made me more angry was that they built up strawmen, cherry picked my words, and ignored my posts. I loved it when they said that they would not read my copy and pastes. Yes, I have copy and paste before. It would have made no difference though. Even if I did take the liberty of typing 3 hours trying to explain the beliefs of the Catholic Church it would have been ignored anyways. Whenever I made any posts that made my point and were entirely smashing against their false accusations I was then attacked personnally. Then they said their were never attacks. That was the final straw for me. I posted the most harsh post that I have ever posted on any webforum so far. I condemned their false accusations and their mistreatment of Catholics. For that I was banned. Right now I am laughing, yet I am sad and angry.

Now I hope and pray for the Catholics that I am forced to leave behind there. The problem between Catholics and Protestants is this: we and Protestants are blinded by anger, incompetence, and maybe even hatred. Until we and Protestants recognize our faults that cause the divisions of coming together no matter what doctrines we hold we will always be at war with each other. That is fact.

Let us pray for peace.

Go with God.

Vigis

 

[lak611]

The problem between Catholics and Protestants is this: we and Protestants are blinded by anger, incompetence, and maybe even hatred. Until we and Protestants recognize our faults that cause the divisions of coming together no matter what doctrines we hold we will always be at war with each other. That is fact.

Let us pray for peace.

Go with God.

Vigis

Excellent post. I agree.