Ascension Thursday question

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DustinsDad said:
Yep, it was done at indult last night. Fitting…gave me a sense of the loss and sadness that the Apostles must have felt.
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A beautiful reflection. I agree there had to be some of these emotions on the part of the apostles at the time; and yet we also read in Luke 24:50-52 :And he led them out as far as Bethania: and lifting up his hands, he blessed them. And it came to pass, whilst he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up to heaven. And they adoring went back into Jerusalem with great joy.
 
AJV said:
Ascension used to be part of Pentecost: then it broke away and people gave a lot of importance to it-octave, vigil, processions, sometimes fasts, etc. Several times you find canons from councils affirming that such and such practise should be done for 50 days, because in certain parts people were only doing it for 40- the “great forty days” and virtually ending Easter on the Ascension.
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AJV - When you speak of an octave of the Ascension, do you mean once upon a time? I don’t see evidence of it in my '62 missal.
 
hey anna, what time should i go to mass? when it’s thursday in brittain or when it’s thursday in ohio? how about this? when its thursday old style calendar or new (gregorian) calendar? btw, when was it thursday in Jesus’ day? Correct me if i am wrong but did He not give the bishops authority to bind on earth? (and in heaven.)?
 
I am pretty sure everyone agrees that the Bishops have the authority to do this sort of thing.
Bishops have the authority to do many things in their diocese, heck they can tear down the Cathedral and put in a personal Chapel with a large parking lot,stores and a coffee shop.

Now that they exercise that authority either they can do good or sometimes do bad with it. I would say that most the Bishops do this out of convenience thinking that they are making it easier for their people and causing less occasion for sin.

Not everything Bishops do is necessarily good, sometimes what they do is positively evil. Because they are Bishops, we must respect them, but this does not mean that everything they do is good.

Moving Ascension Thursday to Sunday is permitted, but it is a stupid idea to do so out of convenience, and should be done only when absolutely necessary.

We are Catholic, and Catholics do celebrate special days for a reason, it is a joyous occasion to go to Mass and we should take time to observe Catholic holy days such as Ascension Thursday.
Our faith is not about convenience but putting Christ first, even to the point of martyrdom.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Well, I’m so confused I’ve got no idea. It looks like every Church in my diocese has a different idea about when this is supposed to happen. I went yesterday so I’m hoping it sticks…
 
I purchased a NEW book yesterday at the antique store.😃 Cabinet of Catholic Information published in 1901. Falling apart and well worn pages.

It has Ascension Day defined as: a movable feast, forty days after Easter, celebrating the Ascension of Christ from the Mount of Olives in sight of His holy Mother and disciples.
 
paramedicgirl said:
What bothers me about moving the holy days of obligation to Sunday is that the importance and impact of them seems to be lost. People don’t really think about the feast day anymore, since they have no requirement to attend Mass. They just go on Sunday as always, and don’t even realize that the actual feast day was a few days earlier. They are going to be there anyway on Sunday, so let’s make it easy and just move all the major feasts to Sunday. That’s how it seems. We only have two feast days left that have not been moved to Sunday.
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So what, really? Christmas very probably isn’t celebrated on the actual birthday of Christ either. And because of that, a whole lot of other feasts - Annunciation and Visitation, the Birth of John the Baptist, Feast of the Purification - probably aren’t celebrated on the correct days either, since they’re calculated backwards or forwards from December 25.

The point is to commemorate the event (like my example of moving a birthday dinner to the weekend instead of having it during the week). And on Sunday quite simply you’ll have more people go to Mass, like it or not, since EVERYBODY knows about the Sunday mass obligation, and commemorate it. People work during the week, you know, not so easy to find a Mass that’s possible for them as it is on Sunday.
 
LilyM said:
So what, really? Christmas very probably isn’t celebrated on the actual birthday of Christ either. And because of that, a whole lot of other feasts - Annunciation and Visitation, the Birth of John the Baptist, Feast of the Purification - probably aren’t celebrated on the correct days either, since they’re calculated backwards or forwards from December 25.

The point is to commemorate the event (like my example of moving a birthday dinner to the weekend instead of having it during the week). And on Sunday quite simply you’ll have more people go to Mass, like it or not, since EVERYBODY knows about the Sunday mass obligation, and commemorate it. People work during the week, you know, not so easy to find a Mass that’s possible for them as it is on Sunday.
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Again, that speaks of catering to convenience. You may be a fan of it, but I’m not. Moving the important feasts has the effect of making us not even think about them. Most people in my parish will go to Mass on Sunday, because that’s what they do, to keep the third commandment. They will not even realize that an important feast day was moved to Sunday for their convenience.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Again, that speaks of catering to convenience. You may be a fan of it, but I’m not. Moving the important feasts has the effect of making us not even think about them. Most people in my parish will go to Mass on Sunday, because that’s what they do, to keep the third commandment. They will not even realize that an important feast day was moved to Sunday for their convenience.
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Excellent point!

Deo gratias, that my archdiocese, Boston, as well as Hartford, CT; New York; Newark, NJ; Philadelphia, PA kept the observance on the 40th day of Easter, said day being yesterday, 17 May.

Now, if only the Church in these here parts would move the Epiphany back to 06 Jan, and Corpus Christi back to the Thursday after Trinity Sunday! I believe in Europe it’s still that way.

Wonder how long before the first day of Lent is moved to a Sunday? :eek:
 
Thankfully, in my area, we have an FSSP parish locally that provided a mass to attend.

Our Archbishops reasoning for moving it to Sunday was that it was too troublesome for most Catholics to make it to mass on a weekday. I can understand his reasoning, for this will prevent a large portion of “Catholics” in this area from committing yet another mortal sin in their daily activities.

As a father of several small children, I have begun to understand the concept of not setting your children up for failure. I.E. don’t tell them something they will not do, and set them up for punishment for disobedience.

I disagree in principle, however, especially when our separated brethren faithfully make it to their services every Sunday and Wednesday.

The movement of a Holyday to a Sunday is another watering down of our beautiful faith.
 
Manfred said:
Excellent point!

Deo gratias, that my archdiocese, Boston, as well as Hartford, CT; New York; Newark, NJ; Philadelphia, PA kept the observance on the 40th day of Easter, said day being yesterday, 17 May.

Now, if only the Church in these here parts would move the Epiphany back to 06 Jan, and Corpus Christi back to the Thursday after Trinity Sunday! I believe in Europe it’s still that way.
**
Wonder how long before the first day of Lent is moved to a Sunday?** :eek:
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It’ll happen in Canada first, :rolleyes: so I’ll be sure to let you know.
 
We had vigil on Wednesday and two Masses on Thursday:dancing: .
 
KathleenElsie said:
I purchased a NEW book yesterday at the antique store.😃 Cabinet of Catholic Information published in 1901. Falling apart and well worn pages.

It has Ascension Day defined as: a movable feast, forty days after Easter, celebrating the Ascension of Christ from the Mount of Olives in sight of His holy Mother and disciples.
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No set date just a set number of days after Easter. Convenience is not a reason to make this any different.
 
anna1978 said:
I take exception to that ‘tone’, if you don’t mind. Yes, you have a point, but Ascension Day is not some obscure local feast, it IS worldwide and as such I believe the same rules should apply worldwide. If it was St Lawrence Day or St Patricks Day, it would indded be up to the local bishop, because it’s a local feast!
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With all due respect, Anna…

Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the one true Church, to which Christ gave his personal guarantee of protection from error?

If so, you must acknowledge that Holy Mother Church has the authority to delegate authority on such matters as the observance of certain feasts, yes?

Thus, as I said before, statements like “I believe the same rules should apply worldwide” are moot. If the bishops in a particular country were to do something outrageous (for example, cancelling the celebration of the Ascension altogether), Rome would undoubtedly swoop in to save the day – but that hasn’t happened. Certain bishops have acted withing the authority they’ve been given, and have done so in a manner that Rome condones – at least tacitly.

Peace,
Dante
 
I’m new here but I have a problem with this question. Here in the UK Ascension Thursday was moved to the Sunday and so there was not Mass to go to, just a Communion Service (some strange modern idea…) which I don’t go to out of principle. Anyway in Ireland they kept the feast day and so did they in Germany where they also had a national day off work as well. So this is my problem. We are obliged to attend Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation.So if you were English and didn’t go to Mass on Thursday you committed no sin. If you were Irish or German and didn’t go to Mass on Thursday you did not fulfill your obligation and committed a sin. I can’t understand why the bishops can change the rules to suit them. If you were English and were on holiday in Germany or Ireland, would you commit a sin if you did not attend Mass on Ascension Thursday given that the English moved the feast day to a Sunday???
 
Moving the Ascension, especially in the USA where the decision is left to individual provinces, has caused confusion.

Do we really celebrate the feast better now that it’s on Sunday in many places? Did whatever betterment we received justify losing the original 9 days of prayer (novena) between Ascension and Pentecost, not to mention the rich liturgy of the Sunday after the Ascension, not to mention the symbolism of 40 days?

Nope. It was moved solely for convenience.

We should thank the secular world for Christmas. If Christmas were at the mercy of the US Bishops, it might well be the Sunday closest to December 25.
 
I Am Not A Canon Lawyer
cheerfulcherub said:
If you were English and were on holiday in Germany or Ireland, would you commit a sin if you did not attend Mass on Ascension Thursday given that the English moved the feast day to a Sunday???
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I think in this case, a traveller follows the law of his location at the time.
Can. 13 §1. Particular laws are not presumed to be personal but territorial unless it is otherwise evident.
§2. Travelers are not bound:
1/ by the particular laws of their own territory as long as they are absent from it unless either the transgression of those laws causes harm in their own territory or the laws are personal;
2/ by the laws of the territory in which they are present, with the exception of those laws which provide for public order, which determine the formalities of acts, or which regard immovable goods located in the territory.
§3. Transients are bound by both universal and particular laws which are in force in the place where they are present.
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If this is true, then by judicious itinerary one could completely avoid a Mass celebrating the Ascension of the Lord, without failing to keep any obligation. (By the same token, one could be obliged to celebrate the Solemnity twice)

tee
Not A Canon Lawyer
 
tee_eff_em said:
I think in this case, a traveller follows the law of his location at the time.

If this is true, then by judicious itinerary one could completely avoid a Mass celebrating the Ascension of the Lord, without failing to keep any obligation. (By the same token, one could be obliged to celebrate the Solemnity twice)
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What’s the Latin expression of “weaseling and maneuvering your way to heaven” again? 😃
 
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