Asexual Marriage

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I don’t know from where you are you referring from, so I dont know if I got your post, but the point is always the approach in my opinion (thats the clarification, I believe is needed). That’s why I say, that when you put the words obligation, right, comply, obliged (in some of its definition), the approach changes. It doesn’t matter how one ask if one has one specific way (approach) in mind (meaning as an obligation, right, etc). Thats why love is not a feeling or just knowledge, it is an action. To love. And love works and acts a certain way.Well that’s how I see it.
Post #75: “For example, I cannot fathom that a saint will ask for intercourse as an obligation.”

In fact there is an obligation to avoid sin and the purpose of the gift is to help the spouse to avoid sin. All actions that avoid sin are charitable.
 
Would it be sinful for an asexual man and an asexual woman to marry and remain celibate for the duration of their marriage or have sex only once over the course of their marriage?

(In case you are unfamiliar with asexuality, it is a sexual orientation: asexuality.org/?q=overview.html )
I don’t know about sinful, but why would a Man and Women want to be united in marriage if they do not want to live together in that marriage giving self to one another freely.

Marriage is giving ones self to the other and being joined together as one forever. Not just one time in the course of a marriage. Having sex once is not what a true marriage is,
 
Possible reasons include they felt God was calling them to marry, they wanted to be committed life partners without scandal, they have romantic attraction but no sexual attraction, financial reasons, the desire to have children together, the desire to adopt children together, fulfilling their parent’s desire for them to marry, wanting your child conceived in rape to have a loving father figure and grow up with married parents, etc.
How can you have romantic attraction without sexual desire?
 
How can you have romantic attraction without sexual desire?
Here is one explanation:

“Sexual attraction is typically defined as a pull or allure toward a specific person in which you wish to partake in sexual activities with them. It’s looking at a person and having a feeling that makes you think “I’d like to have sex with them.” Romantic attraction, on the other hand, is typically defined as a similar pull or allure toward a specific person, but instead of a sexual desire, it’s a romantic desire. It’s when you look at someone and have a feeling that makes you think “I’d like to do romantic things with them.” What those romantic things entail depends on the person. For some, it may be dates, dinners, holding hands, and cuddling. Others may include kissing with that. Others may not like anything that involves touching. Whatever activities, thoughts, and feelings you think of when you consider what is “romantic,” those are what you’d think about, feel toward, and want to do with someone you are romantically attracted to.”

Source: 7cups.com/qa-lgbtq–17/sexual-attraction-whats-the-difference-between-romantic-attraction-and-sexual-attraction-653/

Sometimes people experience sexual and romantic attraction simultaneously, but this is not true for everyone, nor true for every individual encounter.
 
Finally, on 13 May 1977, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now clearly exercising its doctrinal competence, stated, with the explicit approval of the Roman Pontiff, that the authentic current teaching of the Church is that while impotence is indeed an impediment to marriage, the concept of canonical potency does not necessarily require anything in the ejaculate that has been produced in the testicles. As a decree of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this becomes normative for the whole Church and is of considerable doctrinal authority, although it is, of course, neither infallible nor irreformable.

ewtn.com/library/Doctrine/IMPOSTER.HTM
  1. Whether the impotence which invalidates marriage consists in the incapacity, both antecedent and perpetual, whether absolute or relative, of completing conjugal intercourse.
  2. If affirmative, whether the ejaculation of semen produced in the testicles is necessarily required for conjugal intercourse.
To the first question, the answer is affirmative; to the second, negative
So this does not appear to require any fluid whatsoever to be emitted? A man who has had a prostatectomy produces no ejaculate; I understand therefore he may marry subject to capacity to being able to “complete conjugal intercourse”. [Though in this, I assume completion is marked by orgasm, as opposed to ejaculation.]
 
So this does not appear to require any fluid whatsoever to be emitted? A man who has had a prostatectomy produces no ejaculate; I understand therefore he may marry subject to capacity to being able to “complete conjugal intercourse”. [Though in this, I assume completion is marked by orgasm, as opposed to ejaculation.]
Per the linked article, “The decree means that it is the current teaching of the Church that the doubly vasectomized male is capable of a marriage act provided erection, penetration, and the ejaculation of secretions from the prostate, seminal vesicles and various other glands is possible”. That means it requires ejaculate but not from the testicles.

The complete ejaculate is from four sources: seminal vesicles, prostate, testes, and bulbourethral glands. The testes contribute 2-5% of the the total volume in spermatozoa, but the prostate contributes 25-35%.
 
Per the linked article, “The decree means that it is the current teaching of the Church that the doubly vasectomized male is capable of a marriage act provided erection, penetration, and the ejaculation of secretions from the prostate, seminal vesicles and various other glands is possible”. That means it requires ejaculate but not from the testicles…
Fascinating. One wonders what theology is at play that leads to such a conclusion.
 
Fascinating. One wonders what theology is at play that leads to such a conclusion.
The question is one of natural law or by nature of the conjugal act.

The linked article states that prior to the 13 May 1977 answer:
“Thus it was clear that in the opinion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith the necessity of testicular products in the ejaculate was at least doubtful (dubium juris: i.e., a doubt regarding what was required by the natural law or by the very nature of marital intercourse) and that therefore marriage was not be hindered.”

The prior position, while the question was unsettled was that “true semen” required at least something in the ejaculate which had been elaborated in at least one testicle.
 
The question is one of natural law or by nature of the conjugal act.

The linked article states that prior to the 13 May 1977 answer:
“Thus it was clear that in the opinion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith the necessity of testicular products in the ejaculate was at least doubtful (dubium juris: i.e., a doubt regarding what was required by the natural law or by the very nature of marital intercourse) and that therefore marriage was not be hindered.”

The prior position, while the question was unsettled was that “true semen” required at least something in the ejaculate which had been elaborated in at least one testicle.
Interesting history but sheds no light on the theologically reasoning (which I believe views the presence of ejaculate as a communication from man to woman). What merit accrues to the act by virtue of the presence of this fluid? Sterility is not an impediment to marriage. Why is the absence of the additional fluid products from the prostrate etc.?
 
Interesting history but sheds no light on the theologically reasoning (which I believe views the presence of ejaculate as a communication from man to woman). What merit accrues to the act by virtue of the presence of this fluid? Sterility is not an impediment to marriage. Why is the absence of the additional fluid products from the prostrate etc.?
Consummation is the basis of indissolubility of sacramental marriage. For that reason the Church needs to define it and that it based upon the natural conjugal act. So the Church determined that the natural conjugal act requires some ejaculate. Keep in mind that there are certain physiological events that may occur independently, based upon the operation of the nervous system:
  • erection (hypothalamus in the brain, T10-L2 levels of the spinal cord and the sacral portion of the spinal cord S2-S4),
  • emission (T11-L2 levels of the spinal cord), and
  • ejaculation (spinal nerves from the S2-S4 spinal cord).
With all three it is naturally complete.
 
In the past the Church used to allow marriages for people who intended to remain continent. That was called the ‘Josephite marriage’, guess who after.

Right now, like some posters have already said, according to most current canon law the marrying couple will exchange a mutual right to sexual relations that they can’t lose. This means that a mutual agreement about it would only last as long as both of the parties wanted it to.

Hypothetically (not saying anything about the probability of any of the following):

Trying to exclude sexual relations from marriage by, figuratively, removing something or adding an exception to the vows, would fall under Can. 1101.2 and make marriage invalid as long it related to ‘the essence’ (at least as long as marriage was not intended in the case the exclusions couldn’t hold). Extreme restrictions on the right to relations would be ‘of the essence’.

Being unable to assume the obligation to have relations (stress on: unable, assume, obligation) for a psychic cause leads to invalidity (Can. 1095.3). ‘Unable’ means incapable, not just having some serious difficulties. Incapacity to even assume (accept) an obligation is something much more fundamental than simply being expected to have very serious problems (including reluctance) connected with performance of that obligation. Imagine someone with a permanent trauma, who will run away sooner than ever have sex with one’s spouse — which is obviously more extreme than the opening post suggests. That would qualify. Something a bit less would also qualify, but it’s extremely difficult to predict where the bar would be set.

Fraud (Can. 1098) could apply if the, shall we say, orientatation, hypothetically were to have been hidden from the other party for a malicious reason and with the goal to trick that person into consenting to the marriage. Anyone can see ‘fraud’ is definitely not a word canon law uses lightly, nor would an ecclesiastic court be itching to find it in a concrete case. This is obviously not something that the opening post in any way refers to, but I’m including it in the usual rundown of grounds of invalidity.

Error (Can. 1099) could apply if a spouse’s asexual ‘orientation’ hypothetically had been intended as a sort of no. 1 thing, more important than anything else. This is very rare. Examples given in course books for canon lawyers are odd, artificial situations. It’s really difficult to even imagine a factual situation that makes sense. It will probably be limited to persons who marry for a specific quality that’s more important than even the identity of the person they marry. I’m only mentioning this because looking, very hard, specifically for someone asexual could perhaps actually trigger this rare ground of invalidity, should it turn out later that the other party completely missed the description. Kind of like with aristocrats who won’t marry someone not of a noble line, or last of their families who won’t marry someone who is infertile, etc.

In terms of proceeding or not proceeding with the marriage, Canon law could admittedly be drafted better, for clarity, because:

Can. 1058 says: All persons who are not prohibited by law can contract marriage.
While Can. 1066 says (perhaps not only with regard to only meeting form requirements and getting any the required dispensations): Before a marriage is celebrated, it must be evident that nothing stands in the way of its valid and licit celebration.

Of some interpretative help is Can. 1083.2, as an example of how reluctant the Church is to keep people unmarried just in case they could be barred:

*If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.
*
There is no reason to make impotence special compared to other impediments and defects of consent, hence in my opinion it’s perfectly reasonable to assume a similar standard would apply to everything else (at least in the absence of a significant, game-changing difference).

Again, let’s remember marriage is not some 50th degree of enlightenment, it’s meant to be something common that almost everybody can pull off, including a not too severely handicapped teenager growing up in the woods (look at Can. 1096 for a basic idea). 😉
 
This thread is troubling.
Agreed.

If it’s a sin, then of course we should say so (all the more so since it’s what the OP asked); but it seems to me that this thread has become an opportunity for people to act like busy-bodies.
 
I don’t see what could be seen as sinful for two people to be married and live celibately, as long as both agreed to it freely, and ageed to resume (or start) if it was no longer mutual.

Question though, would that mean abstaining just from actual sexual intercourse, or all marital contact eg. kissing, embrace, etc?
 
I guess we’ll never know how many asexual Catholics have been canonized as saints, but if we did know then I bet that people wouldn’t speak about asexuals in such as negative as they do.
 
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